Thoughts on the XPS 9560?

[Ma2k5]

I am personally surprised it has been announced already.

http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/xps-15-9560-laptop

Kabylake Quad Core

GTX 1050.

32GB 2133mhz RAM

Hmm, I can't say I am not tempted to trade up, although Dell scares me to my bones.

 

[Patrick-Photo]

Performance wise the 1050 is in the same ballpark as the RX460 (the 1050 TI is a bit faster) and that's (more than) enough for me. the 5K via one cable possibility with the Radeon Pro 450/55/60 in de MBP is a win for me in the long run. I have enough memory for Lightroom and Photoshop.

The Kabylake is a few percent faster than the Skylake but if the Skylake isn't fast enough for you the Kabylake won't be either, you should get an desktop. The only advantage is that the Kabylake has a bit more efficient encoding on chip for Netflix/Youtube than Skylake and can have up to 32GB. I'd rather have a few full-speed TB3 ports (the XPS 9350/60 and 9550 have reduced speed Thunderbolt 3 ports according to these guys: https://egpu.io/forums/pc-setup/xps-15-9550-not-able-to-reach-40gbps-over-tb3/)

I also prefer OS X to Windows 10 but that's personal (I use Windows 10 from time to time for light gaming).

 

[maflynn]

I think its going to be a tad faster but overall its a nice machine for much less then what Apple charges. You lose out on OS X, which may or may not be a huge deal for you.

 

[Ma2k5]

Performance wise the 1050 is in the same ballpark as the RX460 (the 1050 TI is a bit faster) and that's (more than) enough for me. the 5K via one cable possibility with the Radeon Pro 450/55/60 in de MBP is a win for me in the long run. I have enough memory for Lightroom and Photoshop.

The Kabylake is a few percent faster than the Skylake but if the Skylake isn't fast enough for you the Kabylake won't be either, you should get an desktop. The only advantage is that the Kabylake has a bit more efficient encoding on chip for Netflix/Youtube than Skylake and can have up to 32GB. I'd rather have a few full-speed TB3 ports (the XPS 9350/60 and 9550 have reduced speed Thunderbolt 3 ports according to these guys: https://egpu.io/forums/pc-setup/xps-15-9550-not-able-to-reach-40gbps-over-tb3/)

I also prefer OS X to Windows 10 but that's personal (I use Windows 10 from time to time for light gaming).

I think the 1050 is admirably faster than the Pro 460 from what I've been reading. I do usually find Nvidia perform better as well for many tasks, but one of the big wins for XPS here might be, that it means the laptop is VR ready? Can anyone confirm?

The Kabylake isn't much faster than Skylake, battery is probably an hour better as a result. It does mean the laptop can now nativly play some of the 4K HDR content, which means your laptop doesn't go 100% CPU utilised to play certain formats. Some content from Netflix is now gated behind having a Kabylake processor.

Will be interesting to test the TB3 on the new version, with Kabylake CPU's, they won't need an alpine bridge for TB3, so it might natively work and at full speed?

32GB Ram might also push people towards this device, as more (hate the term) "future proof" for some who have heavy RAM usage in their professional use.

I am happy they decided to add a fingerprint scanner option. Still a bummer with the web cam placement though.

 

[Qwaf]

Sounds great, a fantastic alternative if you don't care for macOS.

 

[leman]

The performance will be very similar to the MBP but the battery life will be significantly worse. The GPU should be more or less the same. I have to say, I am surprised, because I expected the 1050 Ti. Looking forward to the benchmarks! Is there any word on the availability?

 

[maflynn]

but the battery life will be significantly worse

Good point.
The MBP uses a 76WHr battery where as the Dell is detailing a 56 WHr battery

 

[Ma2k5]

Good point.
The MBP uses a 76WHr battery where as the Dell is detailing a 56 WHr battery

There is an error on the site as, the 56 WHr is only for the FHD variant. 4K variants (as per every other XPS 15 iteration) actually come with an 84 WHr battery.

(Some lucky people can even pair the FHD with the 84 WHr battery, for some insane run times).

 

[leman]

There is an error on the site as, the 56 WHr is only for the FHD variant. 4K variants (as per every other XPS 15 iteration) actually come with an 84 WHr battery.

But unless Dell could significantly improve their display technology, its going to be a terrible power hog. The Dell's 4K display is really nice, but its very energy-inefficient.

 

[marc55]

I'm always amazed when folks ask about another brand on a Mac forum. I'm sure they have their reasons, but I would think they would be able to gleam more useful responses/information on a "Brand" forum, like the Dell forum on the Notebook Review website:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/forums/dell.4/

That said, I'm sure a large percentage there would trash Apple

The only thing I can add is, I switched to Mac about two years ago after owning several Dells, and I would never switch back to a Win PC unless the overall experience was superior to Apple, and I don't see that happening; oh, and there's no comparison to Apple's customer service.
m

 

[maflynn]

There is an error on the site as, the 56 WHr is only for the FHD variant. 4K variants (as per every other XPS 15 iteration) actually come with an 84 WHr battery.

If that's the case, then there's not much difference, other then the OS, so you need to decide if using OS X is worth the > 2k price tag for the MBP

 

[Ma2k5]

I'm always amazed when folks ask about another brand on a Mac forum. I'm sure they have their reasons, but I would think they would be able to gleam more useful responses/information on a "Brand" forum, like the Dell forum on the Notebook Review website:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/forums/dell.4/

That said, I'm sure a large percentage there would trash Apple

The only thing I can add is, I switched to Mac about two years ago after owning several Dells, and I would never switch back to a Win PC unless the overall experience was superior to Apple, and I don't see that happening; oh, and there's no comparison to Apple's customer service.
m

Oh I am active on the notebookreview.com forum as well (albeit under a different username ).

I am not going to disagree with you on Apples customer service and even "overall experience" as that is preference driven. I guess this was more to drive discussion on how much it impacts peoples decision on a specification side of things. People are paying $4,000 on the machines so, wanted to see if they feel a bit gutted or let down because the machines lack technically to other competitors. What is the break even point of the OS X experience/customer service, $5000? An XPS 15 can cost people half/less than half of these 15" rMB Pro's.

 

[coolbreeze]

I had the 9550 (4k, 1tb/16gig, $2,400 model). Buggiest POS I've ever laid hands on. BIOS updates always broke something major, then took Dell like 3 months to fix. Then the "fix" introduced new fun issues.

Amazing hardware but in the end I couldn't trust it. Freezing, touch screen wonkiness, issues that were dealbreakers. I never knew when it would just lock up. I even did perfect, clean .iso installs and hand-picked researched drivers. Still buggy.

Sold it off locally to some giddy college student. Feel for him.

 

[aevan]

It seems like a good laptop. I really don't care about Kaby Lake that much, or the 32Gb RAM, but if you do need that much, this will be your only choice. As for GeForce 1050, it will probably be slightly faster than Radeon 460, a lot faster in apps that use CUDA, and Adobe apps will be more optimized for it. For me, it's not a big benefit, for some it will be huge.

This laptop is also cheaper than MBP. Honestly, for some people and some workflows, this is simply a better laptop. Then again, for a lot of people, MacBook Pro is the better option. It's not just macOS, it's how it works with iOS devices, with other Macs, etc. I also prefer the build, the looks, the trackpad & keyboard, etc.

My advice is this:


A) If you absolutely don't care about Apple design, about "Apple features" (Touch Bar, large trackpad, Apple ecosystem features, design, etc.) - you just want a solid laptop, well built, does what it's supposed to do...

A1) ...and if you think Windows is ok or as good as macOS, or just don't care: Get a Dell or a Razor. Just, please, don't come here and try to convince everyone who got a Mac is stupid and that Apple is evil and stuff like that. Enjoy your laptop, you made a good choice. Really.​

A2) ...but you just have to use macOS for whatever reason: Get a 2015. MacBook Pro. No reason to get the latest one, you'll get most of the benefits for less money.​

B) If you love all the Apple flare, you think the Touch Bar is a good idea, you love their design, you love how everything works togeather - in other words - you just love Apple way of looking at things and enjoy the details: Get a new MacBook Pro. It is worth it. No, this Dell won't be better for you. Trust me - we've all been through this, tempted by Windows (or even Android) - you just won't be happy elsewhere. This new MBP is really great - again, if you care about the things it offers.

I love mine and I wouldn't even consider this Dell. They could put a 1080 in there and 64Gb RAM and I still wouldn't consider it. But it would be wrong of me to say it's not better for some people.

P.S. I can already see this Dell popping out in every whiner post as "the choice for pros" and how Steve Jobs would buy a Dell and there will be a billion of YouTube how this is 'better' and Verge will make an article how PC is now innovative (because you can play GTA with more fps) and how touch screens cure cancer. Sigh. We'll get through this.

 

[Rafterman]

If you wait until January, Samsung is releasing their 2TB pcie m.2 SSD card, the 960 Pro. You'll be able to go to 32GB/2TB/4GB video - a better spec, thanks to the 32GB DDR4 RAM and 7th gen processor, than a maxed out MacBook Pro. And still cheaper no less - though not by much.

I see it also has Windows Hello, the Microsoft Surface Pro feature where you can log in with your face.

 

[aevan]

An XPS 15 can cost people half/less than half of these 15" rMB Pro's.

Well, it's not half, I configured the XPS 15 to match the 2016. MBP in specs (same CPU, 512Gb, hidpi screen, 16Gb RAM, comparable GPU, ) and it was something like $2100 vs $2600. Sure, the MBP is more expensive, and the difference is not small, but Dell is not "half the cost".

For that $500 you get better build quality, larger battery, 3 more TB3 ports, better speakers, faster SSD, Touch Bar, macOS. Whether that is worth the money to you or not is a matter of personal preference.

People compare the price of the cheapest option and the performance of the more expensive option.

 

[Ma2k5]

Well, it's not half, I configured the XPS 15 to match the 2016. MBP in specs (same CPU, 512Gb, hidpi screen, 16Gb RAM, comparable GPU, ) and it was something like $2100 vs $2600. Sure, the MBP is more expensive, and the difference is not small, but Dell is not "half the cost".

For that $500 you get better build quality, larger battery, 3 more TB3 ports, better speakers, faster SSD, Touch Bar, macOS. Whether that is worth the money to you or not is a matter of personal preference.

People compare the price of the cheapest option and the performance of the more expensive option.

The listed price on Dell are somewhat annoying because - spending 2-3 minutes with a representative on online chat or via telephone you get 10% off. Put a bit more effort and you get 15% off the online prices. They also regularly do deals and people, more so in the US, seem to be getting up to 30% off. A lot of people seem to also be able to get 20% off via employer programs. As an example, an XPS9360 listed as £1049, I got it for £999 with adding 3 years warranty and accidental damage cover, which took the total to around £1400.

I also don't like the idea of buying older versions of MacBook because, if you are investing into the Apple eco system it doesn't make sense to keep with the old and shun their future vision in my personal view - simply because you'll have to adopt at one point anyway and you are just delaying inevitable.

Also, I know you are quite an Apple apologist normally, but was it really needed in this thread to tell us not to call Apple evil and say Mac is stupid?

 

[Rafterman]

For that $500 you get better build quality, larger battery, 3 more TB3 ports, better speakers, faster SSD, Touch Bar, macOS. Whether that is worth the money to you or not is a matter of personal preference.

P

I would argue about the better build quality. The XPS easily matches the MacBook. A solid rubbery, non-plasticky casing, smooth hinge, no creaking, solid trackpad, tiny bezel and the XPS actually has a better keyboard than the 2016 MacBooks.

Also, three more TB ports is not an advantage, if you consider ONLY TB ports as being there. The XPS has a TB3 port (great as a "dock" port), while still providing a strong list of legacy ports, without need for adapters. TB3 is the future, but you need a notebook for the "now" too.

And a touch screen beats a touch bar.

If it weren't for MacOS, there would be little question which hardware has pulled ahead. But, alas, while Windows 10 is good, MacOS is best for my workflow and so I spend $4300 for a 2016 MacBook Pro. For me, OS is still king when deciding what to buy.

 

[jerryk]

The 1050 would be a big win for me as would the 32 GB of memory. My ML/AI models love memory and training them would be much faster with CUDA support. Nvidia is kicking everyone's butt in the ML/AI and gaming space, and their stock ($30 to 100 in 7 months) shows that. And meanwhile AMD is closing more facilities. Hopefully the rumored Intel will buy will happen.

But if AMD continues to struggle, maybe Apple with put a 1050/1060 in the MBP. That would great!
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There is an error on the site as, the 56 WHr is only for the FHD variant. 4K variants (as per every other XPS 15 iteration) actually come with an 84 WHr battery.

(Some lucky people can even pair the FHD with the 84 WHr battery, for some insane run times).

This shows that Dell has some crazy combinations, so you have to be very careful when comparing models. The same Dell model can come with SSD and HDD, HDD only, SSD only etc. And each change effects the battery size. As does changes in the screens which can be 2K non-touch or 4K touch. BTO is part of Dell's DNA.

 

[aevan]

I would argue about the better build quality. The XPS easily matches the MacBook. A solid rubbery, non-plasticky casing, smooth hinge, no creaking, solid trackpad, tiny bezel and the XPS actually has a better keyboard than the 2016 MacBooks.

XPS is certainly not built bad, but build quality is more than just whether the build is solid or doesn't creak. XPS just doesn't compare to MBP. For example, compare the hinge when you open the MBP with one hand and the fact that you have to hold the XPS with the other if you don't want to lift it. Also the feel of the hinge is much nicer on the MBP - that satisfying click when you lower it, the perfect feel when you lift it with one finger, etc. This is just one example. There are more details. It's a matter of how precise the execution of a complex design is. Everyone can make a well built brick. I am not comparing the XPS with bricks, but explaining my point: MacBook Pro's seamless monolithic design is harder to pull off and do it well. XPS just doesn't creak and it's solid. So is my desk.

I find the MacBook's build quality to be far superior.

As for the keyboard, it comes to personal preference, so I won't laugh your comment off. I'll just say that to me, the Dell XPS keyboard doesn't even come close to the MacBook Pro 2016 butterfly 2 keyboard. Not even close. But again, this one is a matter of preference and if you prefer the Dell one, it's your prerogative to think so.

Also, three more TB ports is not an advantage, if you consider ONLY TB ports as being there. The XPS has a TB3 port (great as a "dock" port), while still providing a strong list of legacy ports, without need for adapters. TB3 is the future, but you need a notebook for the "now" too.

I use my computer now, and with a simple cable change I can attach four USB-A devices to my MBP instead of 2 on the XPS. Currently, I use 3 USB devices with my MBP (Wacom Intuos, iPad attached for Astropad and the Wacom Remote dongle) and I still have a port free. I live in the now. It's an advantage. And this advantage will only grow with new devices.

I don't care about a strong list of legacy ports because carrying one adapter and exchanging 2 cables is preferable to carrying a dock.

And a touch screen beats a touch bar.

Again, this is a matter of preference, not an objective fact. I wouldn't go so far to say that Touch Bar is universally better. Hey, if you prefer touch on a laptop - I won't argue with you. For me - I disabled touch on my old Cintiq Companion 2, that's how much I valued it. On the other hand, I just love the Touch Bar.

As I said in one of the previous posts: it comes down to what you appreciate. For me, Touch Bar beats a touch screen just as anything useful beats something unnecessary. For you it's the other way around and that is perfectly fine.

If it weren't for MacOS, there would be little question which hardware has pulled ahead. But, alas, while Windows 10 is good, MacOS is best for my workflow and so I spend $4300 for a 2016 MacBook Pro. For me, OS is still king when deciding what to buy.

I agree there is little question which hardware pulls ahead. For me, it's MacBook Pro - so much, that it's not even funny. For you it's the XPS. And I don't think you're wrong to think that - I just think you are wrong to think it's something that is universally true for everyone. As I said in this very thread: for some people, Dell XPS is simply a better computer. But is it a better computer for everyone? Oh no it isn't.

BTW, if you feel the way you do, why didn't you get the 2015 MBP? You would get all those legacy ports you value for less money.
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Also, I know you are quite an Apple apologist normally, but was it really needed in this thread to tell us not to call Apple evil and say Mac is stupid?

It was half-meant as a joke, really. But the things I read...

Anyway, didn't mean anything bad. I apologize.

As for discounts - well, I was comparing prices on their websites. To be honest, I have no idea how much things get discounted in the US. I think you can find better deals on MacBooks too. But to be fair, we're comparing regular prices.

 

[dark_mark]

Performance wise the 1050 is in the same ballpark as the RX460 (the 1050 TI is a bit faster) and that's (more than) enough for me. the 5K via one cable possibility with the Radeon Pro 450/55/60 in de MBP is a win for me in the long run. I have enough memory for Lightroom and Photoshop.

Are you kidding me? The GTX 1050 will completely decimate MBP, it's not even close. GTX 1050 is going to be 10% faster than 970M. And 970M has performance of 2,657.3 GFLOPS.

970M already decimates Radeon 460:
1.8 GFLOPS for Radeon 460
2.6 GFLOPS for 970M

970M is already 47% faster than Radeon 460.
Add 10% improvement which is coming with GTX 1050 and you will have 63% faster performance compared to Radeon 460.

And best of all is that GTX 1050 is in the same ballpark for energy consumption as Radeon 460.

So, yeah most laptops with GTX 1050 will completely decimate the $4000 Macbook Pro with Radeon 460.

 

[aevan]

Are you kidding me? GTX 1050 is going to be 10% faster than 970M. And 970M has performance of 2,657.3 GFLOPS.

I'm not saying that 1050 isn't faster than 460 - I have no idea, really, and I'd wait for tests. However, the 1050 is not an equivalent to 970, based on Notebookcheck, the 1050 Ti is as fast as 970 and the 1050, used in the new XPS, is equal to 965, in other words, equal to 460. Also, GFLOPS is not an accurate measure of performance.

I do think the 1050 in the XPS will be a bit faster than 460, but faaaaar from 47%. My uneducated guess would be around 5%. But, again, we'll have to see. Either way, whether this "decimates" the MBP depends largely on what you're looking for in a laptop.

Also, where did you get the idea that 1060 is in the same ballpark when it comes to energy consumption? It is a 75W card vs the 45W one. It is also physically larger (but I'm guessing you don't care about that ) Also, it cannot support single-cable 5K screens like the Radeons, if you care about that kind of thing.

 

[eulslix]

Are you kidding me? The GTX 1050 will completely decimate MBP, it's not even close. GTX 1050 is going to be 10% faster than 970M. And 970M has performance of 2,657.3 GFLOPS.

970M already decimates Radeon 460:
1.8 GFLOPS for Radeon 460
2.6 GFLOPS for 970M

970M is already 47% faster than Radeon 460.
Add 10% improvement which is coming with GTX 1050 and you will have 63% faster performance compared to Radeon 460.

And best of all is that GTX 1050 is in the same ballpark for energy consumption as Radeon 460.

So, yeah most laptops with GTX 1050 will completely decimate the $4000 Macbook Pro with Radeon 460.

Dude ... get your facts straight, before spreading that much misinformation. You make the impression of an irrational fanboy.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-1050-Notebook.178614.0.html

The 1050M is most probably weaker than the 965M, which already is only roughly 10% more powerful than the 460pro, while consuming double the power.

 

[robvas]

Why isn't this thread in another forum?

 

[havenyoung]

I thought for sure we had to wait till CES. I guess they might have already cleared out most of their Skylake XPS15 stock and they just want people to hold off buying the 15-inch MBP?