http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/7695225.stm
Once again, common sense loses out to the
"Welcome to the UK, where everyone is a suspect."
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
'Thumbed' passport grounds family
- Thread starter BoyBach
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/7695225.stm
Once again, common sense loses out to the
"Welcome to the UK, where everyone is a suspect."
It's unfortunate, but at the same time, it's also just fair implementation of procedure. If the family were rejected for racial, ethnic, religious, or other discriminatory reasons, you have my attention. If this regulation that worn passports are not acceptable is not a real regulation, fine. Otherwise, meh.
I don't see how this qualifies as "news." Any ID that is excessively worn or delaminating is no longer trustworthy. Most modern ID's don't even have a physical photo covered by laminate anymore for just that reason.
I fully support the decision. The story is playing on the fact that a 2.4 family holiday was ruined, along with the poor childrens hopes of a time away.
The facts are that someone tried to board a plane with a potentially compromised ID. The guidelines are pretty clear, and "family with good intention" isn't a reason to make an exception.
I wonder how the story would have been reported if it had been a young middle-eastern man going on holiday, and the airline let him board.
AppleMatt
The facts are that someone tried to board a plane with a potentially compromised ID. The guidelines are pretty clear, and "family with good intention" isn't a reason to make an exception.
I wonder how the story would have been reported if it had been a young middle-eastern man going on holiday, and the airline let him board.
AppleMatt
I agree. Your passport should be in perfect condition. It costs a lot of money to get one - why wouldn't you look after it with a passport holder etc?
Doug
Doug
Yeah, I support the decision.
The thread title and the first sentence of the story made it sound like it was going to be a case of silly discrimination based on the grounds that someone was deemed suspicious because he travels too much -- the passport being so well used from being opened and closed all the time.
If that's all it was, then I would have joined in the moral outrage.
But a delaminating passport that potentially could have been tampered with, is a legitimate case for scrutiny, I think.
Glad to see that they're checking, though. Not everyone does. I know I once accidentally boarded a flight with someone else's passport in my hands (and mine in his) and we were waved right through.
The thread title and the first sentence of the story made it sound like it was going to be a case of silly discrimination based on the grounds that someone was deemed suspicious because he travels too much -- the passport being so well used from being opened and closed all the time.
If that's all it was, then I would have joined in the moral outrage.
But a delaminating passport that potentially could have been tampered with, is a legitimate case for scrutiny, I think.
Glad to see that they're checking, though. Not everyone does. I know I once accidentally boarded a flight with someone else's passport in my hands (and mine in his) and we were waved right through.
forgive me but, how many '2.4 familys' have flown civilian airliners into civilian buildings, killing thousands of people?
maybe there's a reason that young middle eastern men are considered with a greater level of suspicion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/11/newsid_2514000/2514627.stm
Much as I dislike the hysteria about terrorism and the often ineffective and time-wasting security measures, I'd rather the authorities were consistent. Would they have let a young middle-eastern man with a damaged passport through? No, so they shouldn't let others get away with it because they're white and with a family.
However, if only one of their passports was worn, shouldn't the rest of the family been allowed to fly and only the husband would have to get a new passport.
If the UK is anything like the US, you can get a replacement passport in a day or two for emergency situations like this and he could have simply joined them a few days later. All of them staying back would have been their choice, no?
If the UK is anything like the US, you can get a replacement passport in a day or two for emergency situations like this and he could have simply joined them a few days later. All of them staying back would have been their choice, no?
Now ... if only he'd been ID chipped to the governments satisfaction then he'd be happily on his holidays. These terrorists masking themselves as family men ... it's evil. Line the bast*rd up against the wall and let him have it.
In the UK it can take you weeks, if not months to get a new passport, thanks to the insistence of the US that we all have biometric passports (or what ever they call them)
My passport is in pretty bad shape. I put it in my jeans pocket when I'm on vacation. One of the agents commented on it and asked what I did to it. He let me in though.
Now ... if only he'd been ID chipped to the governments satisfaction then he'd be happily on his holidays. These terrorists masking themselves as family men ... it's evil. Line the bast*rd up against the wall and let him have it.
Just wait until the terrorists figure out they can reprogram people's chips. X-Mas '12, "Everyone's On A Watchlist" Day.
Well not many, but equally only a couple of middle Eastern men have. Considering the billions of people in the world, we're standing pretty much even. That said, spies were often trained in family units so they wouldn't be suspected. Considering major terrorist cells operate as agencies, it's not a long shot. It's important not to let emotion drive policy here.
Im not sure what your point is though, because the very nature of this story highlights that everyone is subject to the same rules - rightly so; good intention isn't valid excuse. The next 'big attack' could come from a white Christian extremist. Unlikely? Probably what a lot of people thought on Sep 10th 2001.
The point is, the family broke the rules and got dissapointment. If the airlines broke the rules, potentially a lot of people could die. I'd rather they err on the sure of caution for the flights I catch.
AppleMatt
Not yet.
Agree.
These days, proper documents are even more important.
I'm pretty sure they would use read-only chips in passports and other official documents.
Hopefully this would be extremely difficult if not impossible, but it is also just another argument against watchlists and in favor of uniform execution of process.
One of the famous rallying cries for us (USA) on the issue of civil liberty is this statement, possibly originally from Benjamin Franklin: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
The right to travel with a worn out passport is not an essentially liberty or a civil liberty at all. The right to be free from discrimination is. I don't think there's any compelling argument that uniform enforcement of rules leads to reduced transit safety. I don't care if it's inconvenient to enforce rules uniformly. It's the right thing to do.
I think the decision was a little hard. In todays world, we're able to check passports for their authenticity, and if there is no visible sign of tampering, why refuse travel. Their reason for telling him he couldnt travel was that it was worn, not tampered.
When I went to Italy this year, I traveled via EuroTunnel and they didn't even ask to see anyones passport in the car. It was only when we were returning that the British passport control in France was checking every car and searching around 8/10 cars. Luckily again, we didn't get searched either.
When I went to Italy this year, I traveled via EuroTunnel and they didn't even ask to see anyones passport in the car. It was only when we were returning that the British passport control in France was checking every car and searching around 8/10 cars. Luckily again, we didn't get searched either.
I will say it's better this than what happened to me. Us in the military back in the day had ID cards that were laminated (this is way before the credit card style cards they have now) and my lamination got so 'thumbed' that I was able to slip a picture of Han Solo over my picture and run around the base with it, I used it at the BX and they checked them on the way in and when you purchased, at the gate, etc and each time no one noticed that I was NOT Han Solo.
During basic training in the military the drill instructors would gain access to the dorm (the doors are pre-locked from the outside) by holding up ID's to the window. We were required to check the name on the ID AND the picture. They would often time, hold up fake ID's wither with the picture correct and the name different OR the picture incorrect and the name correct to test us to see if we're doing our job by checking BOTH things. I got tested with a picture of Micky mouse on the badge. I had him yelling at me though the glass telling me to let him in and I refused until he held up the proper ID card.
So in a way I can see the how the airline rep did what they did.
During basic training in the military the drill instructors would gain access to the dorm (the doors are pre-locked from the outside) by holding up ID's to the window. We were required to check the name on the ID AND the picture. They would often time, hold up fake ID's wither with the picture correct and the name different OR the picture incorrect and the name correct to test us to see if we're doing our job by checking BOTH things. I got tested with a picture of Micky mouse on the badge. I had him yelling at me though the glass telling me to let him in and I refused until he held up the proper ID card.
So in a way I can see the how the airline rep did what they did.
Already shown to be possible. They messed the RFID tags up really thinking they would be the bees knees in security.
Why is everyone so obedient? FFS! Nothing positive was achieved in this incident. It's just another example of how oppressive states are becoming. How doing ordinary things has the state wanting to know ever more about you, your finger prints or DNA or iris scan.
I can drive to any country in europe and where there were once borders and guards now there is nothing. That's the way it should be. If I'm doing something wrong, the authorities will be listening to my phone calls, putting in secret CCTV cameras into my light fitting etc .. in short building a case against me. Yet if I'm doing nothing wrong I can drive over the border to Italy relatively unobserved by the state. That's decent. As an Englishman and EU citizen he should be allowed to fly anywhere within the EU without the need for a passport. I can't believe how many people love being told what to do by unelected officials.
I can drive to any country in europe and where there were once borders and guards now there is nothing. That's the way it should be. If I'm doing something wrong, the authorities will be listening to my phone calls, putting in secret CCTV cameras into my light fitting etc .. in short building a case against me. Yet if I'm doing nothing wrong I can drive over the border to Italy relatively unobserved by the state. That's decent. As an Englishman and EU citizen he should be allowed to fly anywhere within the EU without the need for a passport. I can't believe how many people love being told what to do by unelected officials.
I heartily agree.
This story is just another example of the jumped up jobsworths on a power trip who seem to have flourished over recent years.