Thunderbolt iMac Torn Down and Benchmarked

[johnnyturbouk]

TBH the 27" IMac is sounding very tempting with the double TB and SB
why on earth is the HDD not sata-3

i was planning on copping an IMac for my family home, as my parent and sisters love my MBP - but i really do not care if the IMac CPU is 10-15% faster, when the hdd only links to sata3 - as i would of put an owc ssd in!

Guess i will wait for a 2012 re-fresh when apple finally recognises sata-6
i hope, rather than giving us TB - which i love, but at this point in time is a little redundant as there is no TB equipped peripherals available - hopefully a next gen apple cinema display with OLED and TB would also get my cash!

 

[Hellhammer]

Because you were becoming irrationally exuberant - I thought that you needed some balance .

I also wonder about this Intel diagram:

(click to enlarge)​

If this applies to the Imac TBolt ports, then the two TBolt ports in fact share bandwidth from the single PCIe x4 connection. The combined max throughput of the two ports would be no better than that of a single TBolt port.

Another moot point, though, since no TBolt devices can be purchased.

Why would it be shared? There are 8 empty lanes so couldn't there be two x4 slots for TBs so both get their own?

TBH the 27" IMac is sounding very tempting with the double TB and SB
why on earth is the HDD not sata-3

i was planning on copping an IMac for my family home, as my parent and sisters love my MBP - but i really do not care if the IMac CPU is 10-15% faster, when the hdd only links to sata3 - as i would of put an owc ssd in!

Guess i will wait for a 2012 re-fresh when apple finally recognises sata-6
i hope, rather than giving us TB - which i love, but at this point in time is a little redundant as there is no TB equipped peripherals available - hopefully a next gen apple cinema display with OLED and TB would also get my cash!

You can get Thunderbolt SSD once the enclosures start to arrive in a month or two.

 

[diamond.g]

Why would it be shared? There are 8 empty lanes so couldn't there be two x4 slots for TBs so both get their own?




You can get Thunderbolt SSD once the enclosures start to arrive in a month or two.

How many display port connections can be had (I know technically the Radeon cards can do 6)? I would imagine to do something other than display mirroring would require separate DPs (or usage of DP 1.2).

All we need is someone with a iMac to post up their System Profiler page showing the connection of the GPU/TB.

 

[iTalkappleosx]

Not a bad idea at all

Glad to see that it is now so much easier to replace the harddrive on those iMacs - now I might get one and put a 500GB SSD in it

Now don't quote me on this. but i was told by apple, that the highest they came was 128 GB, because i no i was thinking about doing the same thing.

 

[mxptt]

Now don't quote me on this. but i was told by apple, that the highest they came was 128 GB, because i no i was thinking about doing the same thing.

here is a 512 GB for sale at newegg

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139400

 

[iTalkappleosx]

Sounds good to me

TBH the 27" IMac is sounding very tempting with the double TB and SB
why on earth is the HDD not sata-3

i was planning on copping an IMac for my family home, as my parent and sisters love my MBP - but i really do not care if the IMac CPU is 10-15% faster, when the hdd only links to sata3 - as i would of put an owc ssd in!

Guess i will wait for a 2012 re-fresh when apple finally recognises sata-6
i hope, rather than giving us TB - which i love, but at this point in time is a little redundant as there is no TB equipped peripherals available - hopefully a next gen apple cinema display with OLED and TB would also get my cash!

I love my iMac, but i think next year, i will have to get the new Macbook pro to go along with it.

 

[AidenShaw]

Why would it be shared? There are 8 empty lanes so couldn't there be two x4 slots for TBs so both get their own?

Intel's diagram shows a PCIe x4 link to the TBolt controller, and two TBolt ports coming from it - obviously sharing the bandwidth of the x4 link.

Intel also says that other configs are possible (in fact, the diagram shows it connected to a PCIe x4 link from the PCH, when we know that Apple on the MBP splits the x16 link going from the processor to the dGFX, and runs the dGFX on x8 and TBolt on x4, leaving an x4 link free).

If the TBolt controller can have an x8 input - no bandwidth sharing. If only x4, then sharing or you'd need two controllers.

Intel's website only has marketing material for TBolt - no specs or engineering information.

I'd just like to see this MBP diagram updated for the Imacs:

(click to enlarge)

 

[Hellhammer]

Intel's diagram shows a PCIe x4 link to the TBolt controller, and two TBolt ports coming from it - obviously sharing the bandwidth of the x4 link.

Intel also says that other configs are possible (in fact, the diagram shows it connected to a PCIe x4 link from the PCH, when we know that Apple on the MBP splits the x16 link going from the processor to the dGFX, and runs the dGFX on x8 and TBolt on x4, leaving an x4 link free).

If the TBolt controller can have an x8 input - no bandwidth sharing. If only x4, then sharing or you'd need two controllers.

Intel's website only has marketing material for TBolt - no specs or engineering information.

I'd just like to see this MBP diagram updated for the Imacs:

(click to enlarge)

I guess the main question is whether 27" iMac has two separate TB controllers or one controller which supports two ports. Are there any good teardowns of the 27" yet?

How many display port connections can be had (I know technically the Radeon cards can do 6)? I would imagine to do something other than display mirroring would require separate DPs (or usage of DP 1.2).

All we need is someone with a iMac to post up their System Profiler page showing the connection of the GPU/TB.

Up to four 1920x1200 monitors or two 2560x1600 monitors, otherwise you will need more than 20Gb/s of bandwidth which is the maximum what two TB ports can provide. One TB port can support up to 7 devices.

 

[InuNacho]

With the removable GPU I wouldn't be surprised if we see some 3rd party graphics upgrades later on.

Kinda like this http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Apple/6615578/.

 

[drsmithy]

EDIT: Found it, looks like it's all still II. Wow, that's a major drag for a machine like this, particularly one that is offered with SSD options.

No, it's not. Outside of benchmarks and spec sheets, you'll never be able to tell the difference.

Another moot point, though, since no TBolt devices can be purchased.

I would say the fact that no-one will be buying an iMac expecting to extensively use high-bandwidth peripherals is the more important reason why it's moot. Similarly with only using 8 PCIe lanes - it's not like the machine is going to be used for much where the GPU is bandwidth constrained.

If the ports weren't independent, it would have to say 'Two 10-Gbps data channels between them' or 'Two 10-Gbps data channels but under full load they're 5-Gbps'

That TB has "two 10Gb channels per port" is simply a part of the spec - *all* TB ports have two 10Gb channels.

It says nothing about the controller or bus those ports are sitting on. You could put a TB controller on a 32-bit PCI card and it would still have "two 10Gb channels per port" (well, strictly speaking it's unclear whether you can put a TB port on a regular expansion card, but hopefully you get the idea).

TBH the 27" IMac is sounding very tempting with the double TB and SB
why on earth is the HDD not sata-3

Because it's irrelevant. You're not likely to ever be doing anything on these machines that's constrained by SATA2 in a meaningful fashion.

i was planning on copping an IMac for my family home, as my parent and sisters love my MBP - but i really do not care if the IMac CPU is 10-15% faster, when the hdd only links to sata3 - as i would of put an owc ssd in!

The faster CPU and GPU will be far, far more noticeable than having a drive - even an SSD - attached by SATA2 vs SATA3 (or, heck, even SATA1).

 

[diamond.g]

I would say the fact that no-one will be buying an iMac expecting to extensively use high-bandwidth peripherals is the more important reason why it's moot. Similarly with only using 8 PCIe lanes - it's not like the machine is going to be used for much where the GPU is bandwidth constrained.

I would think that you only notice PCIe bandwidth when you have ran out of FrameBuffer RAM, or are sharing System RAM. Since most dGPU's come with plenty of RAM you won't notice the loss of 8 PCIe lanes.

 

[muffinss]

After looking at the photos of the new 27 inch iMac from:
http://blog.macsales.com/9995-2011-imac-unboxing-teardown

I wonder why Apple doesn't release an 6970M upgrade for the 11,3 or even the 11,2 generation of iMacs. The heatsink looks identical to the heatsinks used in the two previous 27 iMacs. The shape, size, pretty much everything looks identical. They look like they would fit perfectly. Even if its slighty bigger, I'm sure Apple can make it fit and run great. There shouldn't be any technical reasons why not. Quite frankly, the entire layout of all the parts look identical. So why wont they? There's definitely a big market for it.

 

[aggri1]

Um regarding the SATA II thing: from this OWC blog page...

Well… that was quick! Just two days after they were released, the 2011 iMacs have a firmware update.

While iMac EFI Update 1.6 is described as including “fixes that improve performance and stability for Thunderbolt,” it would also seem that an unadvertised benefit is that it also unlocks the full 6Gb/s, SATA 3.0 capabilities of two of the internal drive bays.

So, relevant or not, happy now?

 

[AidenShaw]

Um regarding the SATA II thing: from this OWC blog page...


So, relevant or not, happy now?

Some people on the Apple QA team are really clueless, don't you think?

How on earth could Apple accidentally not enable SATA 6 Gbps on a system if anyone on watch is paying attention?

Another embarrassing faux pas for the children from Cupertino.

 

[macaddict3]

thats good new sadly bought my imac last year

 

[TheUndertow]

Just be sure to invest in anti-static screen roller. Once you've taken the glass off, it's almost impossible to get it back on without being left with a speck of dust trapped between the LCD and glass. 27 inch is twice as frustrating

GREAT post...I could see this going the way of MBP Thermal Paste replacement (albeit with less extreme "fail" results).

How bleeping annoying would that be to save $100 (for an 8GB upgrade)...

My heart says to get one and slap in 16GB...my brain says to order 8GB from Apple....

Edit: lack of SATA III (or confirmation either way) is boggling...Intel still having SATA III issues?

 

[madhatter61]

What does the screen look like when you remove the front flass panel? Is is still glossy under there? If the glass panel is just stuck on magnetically like that then what prevents companies of making simple bezels to replace it with the screen area cut out?

Magnetic ... glass isn't magnetic ... only iron, nickle, cobalt are magnetic. Your suggestions are not even possible ... learn physics before you suggest crazy ideas like this.

 

[MacMan86]

Magnetic ... glass isn't magnetic ... only iron, nickle, cobalt are magnetic. Your suggestions are even possible ... learn physics before you suggest crazy ideas like this.

Calm down, no need to be rude, especially given that the guy was right.

The glass panel is held on by magnets - I've probably taken apart 50 iMacs so I would have an idea.

The glass panel has a number of metal pins on metal flanges, glued on around its circumference. The aluminium front housing has holes for these pins with magnets on either side. The magnets on the housing attract the metal pins on the glass panel and keep everything together.

If you don't believe me, find something ferrous in your house and wave it around the edge of an iMac's glass panel, you'll notice it get attracted to the 10 or so magnets hidden behind.

What the guy is suggesting is possible, just very unlikely to happen because the bare LCD is so fragile.

 

[Mobius 1]

does the base 21" have 2nd hdd connector?

i may install something

 

[the8thark]

Some people on the Apple QA team are really clueless, don't you think?

How on earth could Apple accidentally not enable SATA 6 Gbps on a system if anyone on watch is paying attention?

Another embarrassing faux pas for the children from Cupertino.

Yes and I'm sure Jobs would totally ripped them apart for this little oversight. I dunno if heads would roll. But we all know is a perfectionist and punishes anything that does not meet his lofty standards.

 

[TenderBranson]

jobs seems to be less concerned with tech specs and more concerned with the full-functioning of software features