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If you own anything with thunderbolt hold down "t" at startup.

See for yourself the glory of thunderbolt target-disk mode.


ut.
 
So if the new macbook air (or the next imac too) comes with SATA 2 then it could work even faster if I use an external SSD as main drive via TB (10GBs versus 3GBs of SATA 2).

Is this correct?
 
After getting repeatedly burned by ReadyNAS and Drobo -- data loss, unrecoverable -- I'll trust no further consumer RAID system beyond simple two-drive dumb mirroring.

Good luck, ye bolder than me.



bp

Hey Blake - Chris here from Hampton, used to run that applebbs there on a IIc. Agree about the consumer grade Raid. Striping over elements be the path to madness, arrrr.
 
Since Apple likely has eventual plans to get rid of Firewire, this feature has to be there for me to buy in to it.

I figured the feature would be added, that it was inevitable, but I'm grateful for the confirmations nonetheless.
 
There's really no reason why it shouldn't.
If Apple expects their proprietary cable to become a defacto standard they can't be imposing restrictions just to protect their precious... (OSX).

Proprietary cable? It's part of the Thunderbolt spec.
 
Agreed. The need for MacPros is diminishing. A few more years and a low-end Air will be snappy enough for most current programs and with Thunderbolt it will be an excellent portable that expands to a snappy desktop.

I cannot understand all the negative ratings this post got. This is exactly where Apple is going with their computers and frankly, I'm excited about it. In particular, plugging my laptop into an external, gaming worthy video device is VERY exciting. (And a few years after that we'll be plugging in our phones instead of our laptops!)
 
Imagine a Mac Mini, a Mac Micro if you will, that did not contain the hard drive or optical drive, with those drives residing in external Thunderbolt enclosures.
  • Your Mac Micro starts having issues with WiFi, video, or just is dead.
  • You unplug your drive enclosure(s) from it, take it to the Apple store, and pay them $200 to exchange it for a working refurbished one.
  • You plug your drives into that, turn on the power, and you've lost nothing.

Want to replace the drive? Get a second TB drive, run software to clone the old drive to the new one, unplug the old drive, and reboot.

Want to upgrade to the new Mac Micro? Just buy it, move the peripherals, including the drives over, and you've got an upgraded system with all of your programs, settings, and files.

Sure, I know how to do all of that already without Thunderbolt. So do many of you. But I'm thinking about the average consumer who believes that the guys in the Best Buy Geek Squad are technical wizards. Take the pain out of repairs, replacements, and upgrades and you make a lot more sales.

I like the idea of everything being external. I actually built my PC around this. All the drives are in external docks that connect via SATA. I know it's not quite the same, but it's a direction I've been envisioning for a long time. Thunderbolt is in its infant stages now but it is VERY exciting (especially when it hits 100Gbps).
 
Imagine a Mac Mini, a Mac Micro if you will, that did not contain the hard drive or optical drive, with those drives residing in external Thunderbolt enclosures.
  • Your Mac Micro starts having issues with WiFi, video, or just is dead.
  • You unplug your drive enclosure(s) from it, take it to the Apple store, and pay them $200 to exchange it for a working refurbished one.
  • You plug your drives into that, turn on the power, and you've lost nothing.

Want to replace the drive? Get a second TB drive, run software to clone the old drive to the new one, unplug the old drive, and reboot.

Want to upgrade to the new Mac Micro? Just buy it, move the peripherals, including the drives over, and you've got an upgraded system with all of your programs, settings, and files.

Sure, I know how to do all of that already without Thunderbolt. So do many of you. But I'm thinking about the average consumer who believes that the guys in the Best Buy Geek Squad are technical wizards. Take the pain out of repairs, replacements, and upgrades and you make a lot more sales.

I think we might be on the verge of a new format of computer, pioneered by those using external FW bootable drives.

What I like about the iPad is the synching, it's not a new device, and this will only get better with iCloud. Even better if I don't need a separate computer at home and work. What if your computer was a small iPod sized TB-enabled SSD drive, wherever you went you simply plugged it in to an interface.

As soon as the price is reasonable I'll get one for my new i7 iMac.

How about the new TRIM support that Apple is enabling on their own SSDs, will this be needed on the externals, will there have to be workarounds?
 
False: current programs won't be out of date by then. Current programs don't need Rosetta, and I doubt there will be a major processor upgrade within a handful of years which will negate the ability to run 2010-on programs.

Sure, newer programs will always be flashier, but they have come to a point where everything aside from professional video and CGI are hitting a ceiling with function. Web stuff will always evolve, true. Anything with basic writing and graphics and data shoveling is pretty much closing in on a natural limitation, so for 95% of the market, a MacPro is completely over-blown computing.

The MacPro will always deliver smoother, faster, but how fast do you need for the majority of work? So few people need that. Double the speed of the current MacPros and what do you have? A great video editor, a great CGI machine, perhaps. PS filters going from 5 seconds to 2.5 seconds isn't that big a deal-maker. Back in the days of wait-10-minutes-to-fill, MacPros were luxurious for anyone doing professional work in graphic, forget video or CGI. Now, and onward, they will become "mildly better" for the vast market majority.

Computer hardware on desktops is hitting a natural boundary at last. I've seen it progress toward this point. 10 years ago, a "MacPro" (Power Mac) seemed like heaven compared to the iMacs. That doesn't hold true anymore because of capabilities of programs being easily met by processors and memory. The industry is going to change away from the steady pace it progressively, routinely took over the last 25 years. We're right at that peak, at this moment, where the shape and function of computers will morph into something a little different.

In addition to that, "workstation class" hardware (Xeons, ECC memory and their accompanying motherboards) is so ridiculously overprices that it's unbelievable. Thunderbolt, in a way, is going to almost give people the "customizable" Mac that the enthusiast crowd has been chiming for forever. Wait till video cards and other devices are available over TB. It's gonna be sweet.
 
Could I store a Windows 7 Boot Camp partition on a Thunderbolt device, so I don't need it stored on the main hard drive?
 
Could I store a Windows 7 Boot Camp partition on a Thunderbolt device, so I don't need it stored on the main hard drive?

Windows dosent allow to boot via USB, i highly doubt it will work with Thunderbolt. There are points during the windows start up at which power is not supplied to the ports.

Like people said, that is one of the upsides of OS X
 
It now appears, however, that we do have confirmation that booting over Thunderbolt is supported, as we received word yesterday from a reader who had received multiple confirmations from LaCie representatives that the feature will indeed be supported.

Not sure why Apple could not confirm this when they included thunderbolt in their hardware. i.e. whether thunderbolt is designed to boot or not.

Booting is a Mac OS X thing, nothing to do with the manufacturer.

e.g. you cannot boot from eSATA drives in OS X, although you can boot from eSATA in a Windows PC.
 
Booting from TB would be excellent! Even more so when third party hardware suppliers catch up and prices go down. Wonder how long that will take? :rolleyes:
 
OFC you can boot from it.. just like Firewire, or USB

This was why i did not get internal SSD (also the 1K$ ekstra was abit to much, combined with the extra 4 weeks delevery)

im getting a Little Big Disk ... Dual SSD in Raid 0 to run OSX and my programs from .. as soon as they stick a price and a shipping date on that, ill get my Mastercard out :D
 
Not sure why :apple: and intel cannot include eSata, much cheaper and I believe you can boot from it as well.

eSATA and SATA are electrically and protocol-wise the same. eSATA is just a shielded connector for running SATA signals external to the case.

Any SATA link from the Intel chipset can be run to an eSATA port on the machine. You can buy cheap external connectors for this.

12-816-070-TS

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...70&cm_re=esata_bracket-_-12-816-070-_-Product
 
The need for MacPros is diminishing.
Diminishing, but will never be gone. Some of us need (or really really want) lots of internal storage. This means multiple 3.5" drive bays. And if you need to share a single display with multiple computers (e.g. because there isn't enough desk space for multiple displays,) something with a built-in display (like an iMac) is out of the question.

For my next purchase, I can really only choose between a Mini and a Pro, because I have no room for another display on my desk. With the mini, I'll need external Firewire drives for storage. With the Pro, I can have all the storage I'm likely to ever need internal to the case. (No, this isn't the only reason to want a Pro, just the one I'm mentioning here. See below for another.)
We have been, however, at a point for quite some time where consumer-grade software is "fast-enough" on entry level computers that $2,000+ is simply unjustifiable for a majority of people.
Today, a cheap Mac (like a mini) is more than fast enough for today's software. Larger systems are nice for high-power apps (like video work), but are only necessary if you need a lot of storage (since a mini's 2.5" hard drive tops out at 500GB.)

But there's the issue of longevity. When I got my PowerMac in 2002, it was a top-end system (cost about $3500). I'm still using it today, nearly 10 years later, and it still does everything I need. It's only now, with Adobe and Mozilla dropping the PPC architecture that I now consider myself forced to upgrade. I plan on upgrading to some version of Mac Pro (probably the base $2500 model) with the expectation of getting 8-10 years of useful service out of it. Amortized over 8-10 years, the price isn't that bad, especially if a cheaper system is going to need to be replaced every 2-3 years.
Imagine a Mac Mini, a Mac Micro if you will, that did not contain the hard drive or optical drive, with those drives residing in external Thunderbolt enclosures. ...
This sounds like the way things were in the 70's. When you used an Apple II, your floppy drives were external. So was your hard drive, if you could afford to own one.

While it makes upgrades and repairs easy, I think most people would prefer to not have all those boxes, which all have to be set up and attached correctly (and probably all require separate power cables.) I think most of the "geek squad" customers would prefer something all-in-one, like an iMac or a laptop, which can be set up and moved easily, even if it does mean requiring a skilled tech to repair/replace components.
eSATA and SATA are electrically and protocol-wise the same. eSATA is just a shielded connector for running SATA signals external to the case.
Yes and no.

On the physical side, eSATA's connector is designed to survive repeated insertion/removal. An internal SATA connector isn't, and doesn't always last long if you attach/remove it a lot.

On the electrical/protocol side, the two may or may not be identical. I believe eSATA devices are required to support several features that are optional for internal SATA devices, including hot-pluggability and support for port multipliers. People who extend a motherboard SATA port to an external connector often find out about these differences the hard way.
 
Apple can make Tunderbold the standard.. will they?

If Apple changes the proprietary electric/data connection (sorry I don't know the name) of the iPod, iPhone and iPad products, consumers will be force to use it. The price should not be passed to consumers, for in the long run, making Thunderbolt a standard will benefit Apple greatly. Sure there will be complains, but the standard will be pushed :D
 
I thought the built in circuitry was already known. They said in the future when the TB cables are fibre optic it will still be compatible with currently released hardware since the changes will occur within the cable.
 
New Guy ??

Great discussion here about the possible future capabilities of the TB cable, its certainly broadened my horizon on some additional options than I had been thinking. I particularly like the idea of simply moving you TB SSD to a station at home and work. And that may one day be a very nice option for many people, including myself.

However, for the time being I'm considering a Macbook Pro to somewhat do this for me, having a 2010 iMac at work and needing to replace an ancient PC at home that just can't keep up anymore (plus I really need Unix and these stupid ssh shells are getting aggravating).

So my question is, if I buy a Macbook Pro 13 or the 15 i7 2.0 (with lesser GPU) and I want to eventually run my Macbook Pro into a monitor, SSD, etc at home, will I eventually be able to do that with a superior video card attached through the TB? Will that even be necessary?

I don't want to go cheap now by opting for the lesser GPU or the 13 machine, then screw myself over by not being able to attach a larger monitor and run more graphic intensive programs later (mostly I work with a lot of photoshop and gaming may one day be important to me again).

Any suggestions or advice?
 
I'd be interested to see if the Monoprice MiniDP<->MiniDP cables are good enough for Thunderbolt. $4.50 each.

Nope. They won't work.

A ThunderBolt cable is two parallel cables in one, with one being a miniDP.

That's also ignoring the active components at each end of the cable that are required to transfer usable signal.

It's going to be some time before you'll see a $5 TB cable. Not one that actually works, anyway.
 
Windows dosent allow to boot via USB, i highly doubt it will work with Thunderbolt. There are points during the windows start up at which power is not supplied to the ports.

Like people said, that is one of the upsides of OS X

That's a shame. I'd wanted to have Mac OS X on the main drive in a MBP and connect an external when I want to use Windows. I certainly wouldn't want the other way around. So I guess I'll need a higher capacity internal drive and Thunderbolt isn't as useful a technology as it could be.
 
It's going to be some time before you'll see a $5 TB cable. Not one that actually works, anyway.
Yes, but "some time" is relative. It will depend on how popular TB becomes.

For example Gigabit Ethernet used to cost $1000/per port. Now, you can get a PCIe card for $10.

On the other hand, Ultra-320 SCSI (a much less popular standard) still costs over $200 for a host-adapter card.

Which will TB become? I'm afraid I'll need a crystal ball to figure that one out.
 
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