Tiger and Windows NT

Krazykrl

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 15, 2005
47
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I have recently upgraded some of my macs to 10.4.2. Since upgrading I can no longer connect to my NT-servers.

Panther works just fine.

Any ideas?
 

matthew24

macrumors 6502
May 30, 2002
388
0
Netherlands
Are all systems (OSX and NT) member of the same workgroup?

Apple Helpviewer:

1) Open Directory Access (in Applications/Utilities).
2) If necessary, click the lock icon and type the name and password for an administrator user on your computer.
3) Double-click SMB/CIFS in the list and type the new workgroup name in the dialog, then click OK.
 
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Tiger is incompatible with our older Mac network here (We have only 3 machines running OSX and they're all 10.3.9). It took me a day and a half to get my machine back to 10.3.9, which required a complete wipe and reinstall.

I'm done guineapigging. I should have brought my iBook in (10.4.2) and tested it first...

Next time...
 
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Krazykrl

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 15, 2005
47
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I don't see us reverting back to Panther as a good solution.

All the Macs and PC's are on the same workgroup.

Again, Panther still works.
 
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yellow

Moderator emeritus
Oct 21, 2003
16,032
1
Portland, OR
Krazykrl said:
Since upgrading I can no longer connect to my NT-servers.
Are we talking file sharing here? AFP services to your NT servers or SMB? Any relevant info in the logs? What troubleshooting steps have you tried?
 
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Gee

macrumors 65816
Feb 27, 2004
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London, UK
Krazykrl said:
I have recently upgraded some of my macs to 10.4.2. Since upgrading I can no longer connect to my NT-servers.

Panther works just fine.

Any ideas?
A weird thing that seems to work for no obvious reason. Open Network Utility in applications/utilities. In the info panel, switch the Network Interface dropdown from whatever it's on to one of the other options. Wait 30 seconds. Switch it back. Close Network Utility. Try connecting to a server.
 
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superbovine

macrumors 68030
Nov 7, 2003
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jayscheuerle said:
Tiger is incompatible with our older Mac network here (We have only 3 machines running OSX and they're all 10.3.9). It took me a day and a half to get my machine back to 10.3.9, which required a complete wipe and reinstall.

I'm done guineapigging. I should have brought my iBook in (10.4.2) and tested it first...

Next time...
it was probably a configuration problem, there is no way that tiger and panther networks do not work with each other.
 
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yellow

Moderator emeritus
Oct 21, 2003
16,032
1
Portland, OR
superbovine said:
it was probably a configuration problem, there is no way that tiger and panther networks do not work with each other.
I concur. Of the ~150 Macs I suspport, they're mixed with 10.2, 10.3, and 10.4. With a dash of Win2k3 and AD thrown in for taste.
 
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AlBDamned

macrumors 68030
Mar 14, 2005
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This is exactly the same problem we are having but thisnew thread is much clearer in the problem description than mine is. :eek:


https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/141454/


We've got2 new Tiger G5's and they won't see our NT server. Neither does my Powerook, though it sees my Desktop and nothing else. It's really odd.
 
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Krazykrl

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 15, 2005
47
0
yellow said:
Are we talking file sharing here? AFP services to your NT servers or SMB? Any relevant info in the logs? What troubleshooting steps have you tried?
We are talking AFP. Possibly SMB as well since browsing thru the Finder I believe is SMB.

We have not tried alot, all I have done is verify that the Macs are in the same workgroup as the nt servers. We are trying to hesitate on restarting the nt server since Panther works OK.

They can ping the NT serve as well.
 
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Krazykrl

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 15, 2005
47
0
AlBDamned said:
This is exactly the same problem we are having but thisnew thread is much clearer in the problem description than mine is. :eek:


https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/141454/


We've got2 new Tiger G5's and they won't see our NT server. Neither does my Powerook, though it sees my Desktop and nothing else. It's really odd.
Glad to know I am not alone.
 
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yellow

Moderator emeritus
Oct 21, 2003
16,032
1
Portland, OR
Idle speculation: Is AppleTalk turned on on the Tiger box? Its possible that an ancient beast like NT is using actual AppleTalk to communicate, rather then AFPviaTCP?
 
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AlBDamned

macrumors 68030
Mar 14, 2005
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yellow said:
Idle speculation: Is AppleTalk turned on on the Tiger box? Its possible that an ancient beast like NT is using actual AppleTalk to communicate, rather then AFPviaTCP?

I won't be able to tell until tomorrow but will check this.

Yellow, the way you're talking suggests it should work, regardless of how old the server is? It definitely would be strange if tiger just didn't 'work with old NT servers'.

As said in the other thread, the guy they brought in for these new machines mentioned protocol differences between Panther & Tiger, but that is tech that's over my head.
 
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yellow

Moderator emeritus
Oct 21, 2003
16,032
1
Portland, OR
I'm just saying that you may not have turned AppleTalk (the service) on on the Tiger box. And it may be that NT is relying upon AppleTalk. I don't know how up to date the AFP services on NT4 are.. I suspect they are really, really, really, really, old. I don't know if they cope with AFPoverTCP (I suspect not) which is what Apple officially switched after 8.6, but still leaves legacy stuff that gets depreicated with each passing iteration of the OS. Make sure AppleTalk is turn on (in Directory Access is one place to turn it on) before continuing to try and connect to the NT server.

More info:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.4/en/mh1559.html
 
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AlBDamned

macrumors 68030
Mar 14, 2005
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yellow said:
I'm just saying that you may not have turned AppleTalk (the service) on on the Tiger box. And it may be that NT is relying upon AppleTalk. I don't know how up to date the AFP services on NT4 are.. I suspect they are really, really, really, really, old. I don't know if they cope with AFPoverTCP (I suspect not) which is what Apple officially switched after 8.6, but still leaves legacy stuff that gets depreicated with each passing iteration of the OS. Make sure AppleTalk is turn on (in Directory Access is one place to turn it on) before continuing to try and connect to the NT server.

More info:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.4/en/mh1559.html
Thanks for the link. I will check Appletalk on the Tiger boxes when I get in tomorrow.

Any luck with your's Krazy?
 
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AlBDamned

macrumors 68030
Mar 14, 2005
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Apple Talk is on on the Tiger Box. Also, it can see its local network (two Quicksilvers running earlier OS's and a couple of really old beige Macs (yak). It just won't hook up to the main server. Not a major problem as files can be trasnferred to the quicksilvers and then onto the main server. It's just a bit backwards having to do that.
 
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yellow

Moderator emeritus
Oct 21, 2003
16,032
1
Portland, OR
I suppose all the file are on a Mac volume on the NT server too, so you cannot get to them using SMB?

I hate to say this to you two, but someone has to..

Maybe it's time to drop the 10 year old depricated Windows NT Servers? You could leap forward in time by 5 years with Win2k Server!
 
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AlBDamned

macrumors 68030
Mar 14, 2005
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yellow said:
I suppose all the files are on a Mac volume on the NT server too, so you cannot get to them using SMB?

I hate to say this to you two, but someone has to..

Maybe it's time to drop the 10 year old depricated Windows NT Servers? You could leap forward in time by 5 years with Win2k Server!
What's SMB? :eek:

Our IT guy just glared at me when I relayed the Win2K server idea. There's no way they will do it in the near future apparently. Stuck with an injured tiger!
 
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yellow

Moderator emeritus
Oct 21, 2003
16,032
1
Portland, OR
AlBDamned said:
What's SMB? :eek:

Our IT guy just glared at me when I relayed the Win2K server idea. There's no way they will do it in the near future apparently. Stuck with an injured tiger!
There's just so much wrong here..

You're kidding about SMB, right?

SMB = Server Message Block, basically the TCP protocol that Micorosoft Windows uses to do file transfers. On UNIX, there's a service implementation called Samba (SaMBa, get it?) that is used to talk SMB with Windows boxes. This is how a Mac can communicate with Windows boxes without resorting to turning on AFP services on the Windows boxes.

Hopefully your IT person isn't resisting because he's stubborn and doesn't like change. Hopefully you're still rocking WinNT out of necessity.
 
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Krazykrl

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 15, 2005
47
0
jayscheuerle said:
Tiger's the first version of OSX that MUST connect via TCP. Our server is older and not configured that way. I'm the OSX guinea pig and the IT guys won't do ANYTHING for me alone... :(
Won't you stop hijacking this thread please? If you want to help out, I would appreciate that.

Anyways, we do have Appletalk enabled, I can other Macs no problem. It's just the old NT-server, and its just after upgrading to 10.4.2, it really did work before this.

AlB - Are you at 10.4.2 and do you recall seeing this issue before upgrading to 10.4.2.?
 
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AlBDamned

macrumors 68030
Mar 14, 2005
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yellow said:
There's just so much wrong here..

You're kidding about SMB, right?

SMB = Server Message Block, basically the TCP protocol that Micorosoft Windows uses to do file transfers. On UNIX, there's a service implementation called Samba (SaMBa, get it?) that is used to talk SMB with Windows boxes. This is how a Mac can communicate with Windows boxes without resorting to turning on AFP services on the Windows boxes.

Hopefully your IT person isn't resisting because he's stubborn and doesn't like change. Hopefully you're still rocking WinNT out of necessity.
Not kidding about SMB, hence the smiley. I'm no computing grad just taken more than a keen interest in Macs since I started using them seriously professionally. Subsequently, most things like protocols, SMB etc etc, still go way over my head.

Anyway, this new G5 is the first Tiger equipped Mac in the building (they've put the second one back in the box until next week). My Tiger'd Powerbook can see my own G5 which in turn can see everything else so no bother for me. This means the new Tiger G5 is effectively the first computer to have this problem. Every other Mac & PC works ok with the Network (and this newly problematic server), except when the update to 10.3.9 broke my connection with an old wireless point, but we got round that by going another route.

So, if it's a question of Tiger not working with NT, then so be it. It's just smidge annoying. However, I keep saying that an IT system needs more than just mild stroking to keep it going. You need to spend money maintaining it and keeping it up to date, or every 10 years you'll need to re-do the whole lot, a-la Nt> Win2K. I don't hold the purse strings though. Just trying to find out if there's another way.

Looks like there isn't from what people are saying and it's a shame.
 
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superbovine said:
it was probably a configuration problem, there is no way that tiger and panther networks do not work with each other.
No. THEY work together. It's just that once moving to Tiger, I could no longer connect to our server. I found this:

info

AppleTalk issues

Mac OS 8, Mac OS 9, and Mac OS X 10.1 to 10.3.9 support file sharing (AFP) connections over AppleTalk. However, Mac OS X versions 10.0 to 10.0.4 (more) and 10.4 and later (more) can only connect to AppleShare over TCP/IP.

If you want to connect from versions 10.1 to 10.3.9 to Mac OS 8 sharing (which is AppleTalk only), be sure to enable AppleTalk as described in steps 5 and 6 in Section II, above. Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X can both connect over TCP/IP without AppleTalk, so this step is optional in the absence of Mac OS 8.

Mac OS X 10.4 and later don't support Personal File Sharing (or other AFP) over Appletalk, though by initiating the connection from the opposite direction you could still achieve an IP connection from a Mac OS 8 computer to a sharing Mac OS X computer. The Network preference pane in Mac OS X 10.4 and later still offers the AppleTalk checkbox, but it is for browsing AppleTalk-advertised resources and zones. The subsequent connection must be over TCP/IP.
 
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