Tiger and Windows NT

[AlBDamned]

Anyways, we do have Appletalk enabled, I can other Macs no problem. It's just the old NT-server, and its just after upgrading to 10.4.2, it really did work before this.

AlB - Are you at 10.4.2 and do you recall seeing this issue before upgrading to 10.4.2.?

The new G5 is at 10.4.0 (pre-installed), the Powerbook is at 10.4.2.

Neither can see the main server and I just plugged the powerbook into the network using my desktop's cable, and it can't see my local OS 9 Macs or anything except OS X running macs (only 3 other machines). My desktop running 10.3.9 can see everything there is to see.

 

[Krazykrl]

Mac OS X 10.4 and later don't support Personal File Sharing (or other AFP) over Appletalk

Are you sure about that? I have a small network at home and my Tiger iBook sees my Panther iMac with no problem, via Appletalk.

 

[Krazykrl]

The new G5 is at 10.4.0 (pre-installed), the Powerbook is at 10.4.2.

Neither can see the main server and I just plugged the powerbook into the network using my desktop's cable, and it can't see my local OS 9 Macs or anything except OS X running macs (only 3 other machines). My desktop running 10.3.9 can see everything there is to see.

Try updating the Powerbook to 10.4.2 (since it can't see the NT-server anyway).

Are you sure that Appletalk is active on the Powerbook? You should definitely be able to see your OS 9 systems. How about the vice-versa? Can your OS 9 systems connect to the Powerbook?

 

[jayscheuerle]

Are you sure about that? I have a small network at home and my Tiger iBook sees my Panther iMac with no problem, via Appletalk.

That's copied from the link to Apple's site.

 

[AlBDamned]

Try updating the Powerbook to 10.4.2 (since it can't see the NT-server anyway).

Are you sure that Appletalk is active on the Powerbook? You should definitely be able to see your OS 9 systems. How about the vice-versa? Can your OS 9 systems connect to the Powerbook?

It's the PB that has 10.4.2, the G5 is basic 10.4.

Right, Just switched on Appletalk on the Powerbook's ethernet port (it was set to on on Airport as thats what I use by default at home - Duh). It can now see the other Macs (excellent) and it CAN see the NT Server.

BUT, when I tried to connect, it beachballed and I had to relaunch Finder (no biggie).

I then got this message:

Connection Failed
This file server uses an incompatible version of the AFP protocol. You cannot connect to it


Edit: I also get this message when trying to hook up to the other OS 9 Macs but I guess this is indeed the AppleTalk and 10.4 thing?

 

[Krazykrl]

That's copied from the link to Apple's site.

OK. I read it. I kind of get it, it seems like even tho it appears you might be connecting via Appletalk, its really IP?

Appletalk will be used to browse, but the connection is actually not appletalk.

Can anyone confirm or translate for me?

 

[AlBDamned]

I can connect to the Powerbook going from OS9 Macs to Powerbook but not the other way.

All the OS X machines can see and connect to each other either way, no problem (as you'd expect/hope!).

 

[Krazykrl]

I can connect thru 'My Network' to a Panther system, and when I do a 'Get Info' on the mounted share, the format is AppleShare.

 

[AlBDamned]

Just found this about the protocol message.

OS X machines will connect to each other via Appletalk but 10.4 machines won't connect Tiger > OS 9 through Appletalk as before Panther > OS 9 does. Is that right?

EDIT: I think the above linked document says if your server has TCP/IP, switch it to that. Would an NT server usually be connected over TCP/IP anyway?

 

[Krazykrl]

Wow. The article pretty much says that you can't connect to a server that uses Appletalk over AFP. But the same server can connect to you.

I tested this, it worked. My NT-server can connect to my iBook with Tiger, but I cannot connect to it.

Not sure how this would work if my NT-server was my file server.

 

[AlBDamned]

Wow. The article pretty much says that you can't connect to a server that uses Appletalk over AFP. But the same server can connect to you.

I tested this, it worked. My NT-server can connect to my iBook with Tiger, but I cannot connect to it.

Not sure how this would work if my NT-server was my file server.

Works for me also, but sadly it doesn't solve the problem as such. Basically, the new Tiger G5 is now the new main production macine. It's where a lot of the stuff for some of our magazines springs from. So, the operator puts things on the main server from this G5. A way round it, would be to have a 'work' file on the G5 that people can come in and get, as opposed to him putting it out onto the main server. He becomes a mini server effectively.

 

[AlBDamned]

Our NT Server is connecting on TCP/IP. So I'm now a more than a little confused. Doesn't it say in that article just to switch it to TCP/IP if you can, and then all will be rosy?

 

[Krazykrl]

I think the article is indirectly saying 'upgrade to Win2k or better'. I do not believe Tiger will work with Windows-NT.

FYI, in order to setup a share on a Mac workstation you need a program to allow this. By default you cannot setup a share (well not easily anyway) unless you are running OS X server.

There is a utility to do this with ease called SharePoints.

www.hornware.com.

 

[AlBDamned]

I think the article is indirectly saying 'upgrade to Win2k or better'. I do not believe Tiger will work with Windows-NT.

So what are you going to do?

We'll just get by by transfering from the new mac to an older one, and then onto the server. The only other option is to set up a 'drop and take box' on the new G5 (vetoed already as they don't want it opened up to everyone), or, to start over and put Panther on the new ones and ditch Tiger.

It's ever so slightly ridiculous that they just dropped it. I guess Tiger really is the 'most advanced operating system in the world'. I mean, I know now that NT is old school, but if it worked with Panther, why the hell not make it work with Tiger.

 

[Krazykrl]

Luckily our main file server is not NT, its 2003 already. The NT server was just an old archive.

I have no problem migrating to something else or upgrading it. This may not be the case for other users, so eventually this could be a real problem for someone.

 

[AlBDamned]

Luckily our main file server is not NT, its 2003 already. The NT server was just an old archive.

I have no problem migrating to something else or upgrading it. This may not be the case for other users, so eventually this could be a real problem for someone.

That's good. There are ways round it as we've seen, but yeah, someone is bound to be caught out eventually.

Edit: This also means that there's no point pestering for a multiple Tiger Licence for our office until they upgrade the server software.

10.3.9 it is then...

 

[BrtAbd]

Ive been reading your comments and Im having the same problem connecting to Windows 2003 Server running Tiger. But we have 2 Tiger boxes running Tiger connecting through Appletalk and all is fine but my mac wont connect, only through SMB no good.

 

[Krazykrl]

The problems we were having was connecting to Windows NT 4.0. You are having trouble connecting to a Windows 2003 Server? What exactly is happening?

 

[ahunter3]

Thought this was common knowledge by now.

a) Windows NT has its own Windows-style file sharing, and then it has "Services for Macintosh", i.e., AppleTalk. Services for Macintosh is an old, MacOS 8 style AppleTalk-NOT-over-IP implementation. Remember, MacOS 8.1 was the hot new OS for Macs when NT was in its heyday. No ASIP back then.

b) That old-fashioned AppleTalk works fine with MacOS 8 & 9, and was also supported under Jaguar and Panther. Does not work with Tiger. You want AppleTalk for filesharing with a Tiger box, it has to be AppleShare-over-IP.

[rant]I don't know why Apple got rid of it. We have a Sun box in the office which supports AppleTalk filesharing that's compatible with everything from System 6 (!) to Tiger. Why the hell can't Apple do AppleTalk?[/rant]

c) You don't have to ditch Windows NT. Just select the folder or volume in question and share it out using conventional Windows file sharing. Tiger speaks that language just fine.

d) Alternatively, you can buy a 3rd-party AppleTalk product for Windows. There are two that I know of: MacLan, formerly from Miramar, now bought out by Computer Associates if I recall correctly; and Extreme Z-IP from Group Logic.