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Tiger: Not at all exciting.
- Thread starter johnnowak
- Start date
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TigerPRO said:
Well considering it all part of Avalon and Avalon is not being cut it a safe bet that it will be in there
joshuawaire said:
funny that i always thought that Windows Service Packs are Microsoft's attempt to cover up their lousy programming.
i think we should all be happy that Apple makes new products run faster on the same hardware then the older product so we get more life out of a computer.
Timelessblur said:
And someday we'll have computers that are neurally interfaced and people will have ports in the back of their necks and almost everybody will be a cyborg to some extent and scholars will debate on what constitutes a human and there will be this android chick who runs around naked turning invisible and ripping apart tanks with her bare hands and this dude with toothpaste caps for eyes.
But none of this has to do with how Tiger is or is not all that exciting.
johnnowak said:
i'm sure it was... i also heard that the mac os was crashing a lot and was so unstable that it is still the base of arguments for mac haters TODAY!... well i guess that were the old Mac OS9 days eh?
sorry i couldn't help it
BTW OSX was released on March 24th, 2001
johnnowak said:
If it doesn't get you excited, then ignore the hype. If you don't think the features justify the price tag, then don't buy it. But you are a lone voice here and that makes your post nothing more than a troll.
john1123 said:i'm sure it was... i also heard that the mac os was crashing a lot and was so unstable that it is still the base of arguments for mac haters TODAY!... well i guess that were the old Mac OS9 days eh?
sorry i couldn't help it
BTW OSX was released on March 24th, 2001
Mac OS X 10.0 was slow, and painfully slow on older machines at the time, but then again, it was like a child learning how to walk. But it was stable!
I agree with others in that 10.1 should have been 10.0, but we can't change that now, can we? And in the now, Mac OS X is much better and so are the programmers who have gotten used to the new OS. The Mac OS X that was unbearable on my Beige G3 is now quite bearable. Applications are a different story though and Microsoft Office is becoming a nightmare on this computer. Ah, the double edged sword of free Microsoft software at college. It's free, but it locks many into using what is familiar or available instead of what is best. Oh well, at least I still get a chuckle in the PC lab when using Office on Windows since it doesn't feel as polished as the Mac OS X version.
Timelessblur said:
Uh, yeah Avalon is being cut. WinFS, Avalon, and Indigo are all being cut and will be available later for both Windows XP and Longhorn.
DavidLeblond said:
yeah you dont know what you are talking about. WinFS was the main thing cut. Avalon is being back port to XP. Avalon has been preview to delevopers already and a lot of the base stuff is already in the hads of ATI and nVidia to allow them to make graphic cards. Indigo is already in the hads of delevopers. Where is you proof to back you statement up?
The main reason I made my oringal post was because the linux Tiger agument was getting stupid and really was not going any where so I figure I would try to destract them from it.
I suggest we get this more on topic
Johnnowak
I understand many of your points but I don't think you are really looking beyond the technology and visualizing what 3rd party vendors can do.
I know you do music and likely have plenty of music files on your computer. Spotlight will surely have the capability of you finding audio files etc.
I'm not sold on Linux matching OSX anytime for features because I believe that you get more results by paying people rather than rely on their benevolence.
That being said I love computing and diversity. I look forward to installing linux on a PC and going from there. I think Linux is like the next step for the tinkerer. We know have an OS that allows for tinkering more than building a PC.
I've pored over last years WWDC sessions and culled as much info as I could without actually having the beta of Tiger and I think that Apple has done far more than just their top ten list.
The thing is we all know computers fairly well and want to know the more geeky nuts n bolts stuff but someone like my mother needs to have the broad picture painted for them. She'd identify with Dashboard before Core Image or Data.
Here's what I think will happen upon Tigers shipment. Apple will undoubtedly have bugs and be working on 10.4.1. People will love Spotlight because 10 years ago our hd had very few files compared to today with the advent of multimedia and MP3/AAC files coupled with huge hard drives.
Dashboard will be popular one you find a set of widgets that you can't live without. For me those would be Dictionary, Package Tracker, Language Converter, Currency Converter and probably a few more I don't know I need yet. Yes I could go to my favorite websites and do the same but I want one key access.
.mac sync is going to be cool for keeping the proliferating computers in our lives in sync. I see it as nothing but positive.
Tiger will have a little something for everyone. I'm sure people will like it. Panther wasn't well received until people actually used it. The rest is history.
I understand many of your points but I don't think you are really looking beyond the technology and visualizing what 3rd party vendors can do.
I know you do music and likely have plenty of music files on your computer. Spotlight will surely have the capability of you finding audio files etc.
I'm not sold on Linux matching OSX anytime for features because I believe that you get more results by paying people rather than rely on their benevolence.
That being said I love computing and diversity. I look forward to installing linux on a PC and going from there. I think Linux is like the next step for the tinkerer. We know have an OS that allows for tinkering more than building a PC.
I've pored over last years WWDC sessions and culled as much info as I could without actually having the beta of Tiger and I think that Apple has done far more than just their top ten list.
The thing is we all know computers fairly well and want to know the more geeky nuts n bolts stuff but someone like my mother needs to have the broad picture painted for them. She'd identify with Dashboard before Core Image or Data.
Here's what I think will happen upon Tigers shipment. Apple will undoubtedly have bugs and be working on 10.4.1. People will love Spotlight because 10 years ago our hd had very few files compared to today with the advent of multimedia and MP3/AAC files coupled with huge hard drives.
Dashboard will be popular one you find a set of widgets that you can't live without. For me those would be Dictionary, Package Tracker, Language Converter, Currency Converter and probably a few more I don't know I need yet. Yes I could go to my favorite websites and do the same but I want one key access.
.mac sync is going to be cool for keeping the proliferating computers in our lives in sync. I see it as nothing but positive.
Tiger will have a little something for everyone. I'm sure people will like it. Panther wasn't well received until people actually used it. The rest is history.
Timelessblur said:
Avalon being "backported" to Windows XP means its not going to be a "feature" of Longhorn. That would be like Apple releasing Spotlight to Panther and then saying "Buy Tiger! It has Spotlight!!!!"
Indigo, same deal.
WinFS, same deal.
Therefore these 3 technologies are no longer "Longhorn features."
DavidLeblond said:
if you read up on it. Avalon "back porting" is to help out XP but a lot of the features that Avalon has will not be able to be used by XP. One of them is the vector graphics. Part of the reason for the back port is to get Devolpers to get start using Avalon sooner since they are not going to start using it until the prodoment OS at the time is using it. And for a while after the longhorn release XP will be that way. So it to start the devepment of Avalon 6 months earilier or so. Indigo I have not followed so I dont even know if that one is being back ported.
WinFS is planed on being added later on to longhorn if I remeber correctly but I would not be suprised that it going to get moved back to the release of I think the OS after longhorn.
More on topic a lot of stuff in tiger seems like a gimic. The new Quick time codex is going to more than likely be pick up by things like Xvid codex pac ect. but it is something nice being added. Right now a lot of it seems very gimicy and kind of weak but it spears developments. Some of the stuff needs to be port over to Windows ASAP mainly so it gets out of the gimic stage and more to a useful stage. One example I will use from iChat. iChat the program does not really need to be ported over but several features in iChat do need to be ported over. Namely the video Confancing part of it needs to be so it can have more of a real world application to it. This is where apples market share is a problem because stuff that requires muliple users to be used a small market plateform/program becomes problemmatic. But hopefully it spures the growth of that market in AIM. I also hope AIM video chatting becomes improved because of iChat.
bushgreen said:
apple menu: so lets see, the apple menu in os 9 had our favorite apps, our recent app / documents. and the control panels (if i am forgetting anything, well i haven't used OS9 since 10.1). ok, so, the apple menu in X has the recent items, and for the most part has what was in the "special" menu in classic. the capability of adding heavily used apps into the apple menu in os 9 is pointless in os x, due to the dock.
tabs: i may be wrong but was that the thing that would list your apps that are open, and you could just click to change?. if so then no need for that in os x due to the dock (though i may be wrong as i am not quite sure if those are the tabs you refered to)
aplication switcher: now that may also be the thing i previosly mentioned which i thought were tabs. if so then see that comment. if not and you meant the "command+tab" well that is still there
These are features which Apple has obviously let third parties fill in the spot. See the section of my FAQ on Making Mac OS X look and function like 9:
http://www.macmaps.com/macosxnative.html#LOOKALIKE
Apple takes a few features from third parties, but just as equally, they have decided to give a few back to third parties to fill in the gap.
my take on Tiger
Spotlight= i dont search much, i keep things organised. what im loving about this is Smart folders. that really is something i will use very often for burning quick collections of uni work (the only reason i can think of now, but it will be a life saver)
Dashboard= i probably wont use it all the time, but weather widgets will be very good for me (i do stunt kiting, knowing the strength and direction of the wind is v.important).
Safari RSS= if it aint broke dont fix it! i dont see any problems with Safari and i doubt i will use RSS feeds. so this is a neutral 'enhancement' for me.
Mail= ive been using Mail as my main email app and again ive seen no problems, not a hiccup. apart from one little thing where it bleeps to say i have no messages after checking my first email account and plays no sound after the second account.
iChat= will work with MSN and iTunes. ive never used iChat before but if its going to work with MSN and is better than Messenger then i can kiss bye bye to Messenger
Automator= will probably never use it, but then again (like with iPhoto and Garageband) a time will come when its needed.
VoiceOver= can certainly say i wont use.
.Mac Sync= .Mac is poo. i pay £70 for 2 years of unlimited bandwidth+space hosting and i get my own domain too.
Quicktime= i dont care who they do or dont support; QT7 is going to be amazing.
Tiger will be nice as well as all these other improvements its going to be a nice OS.
Spotlight= i dont search much, i keep things organised. what im loving about this is Smart folders. that really is something i will use very often for burning quick collections of uni work (the only reason i can think of now, but it will be a life saver)
Dashboard= i probably wont use it all the time, but weather widgets will be very good for me (i do stunt kiting, knowing the strength and direction of the wind is v.important).
Safari RSS= if it aint broke dont fix it! i dont see any problems with Safari and i doubt i will use RSS feeds. so this is a neutral 'enhancement' for me.
Mail= ive been using Mail as my main email app and again ive seen no problems, not a hiccup. apart from one little thing where it bleeps to say i have no messages after checking my first email account and plays no sound after the second account.
iChat= will work with MSN and iTunes. ive never used iChat before but if its going to work with MSN and is better than Messenger then i can kiss bye bye to Messenger
Automator= will probably never use it, but then again (like with iPhoto and Garageband) a time will come when its needed.
VoiceOver= can certainly say i wont use.
.Mac Sync= .Mac is poo. i pay £70 for 2 years of unlimited bandwidth+space hosting and i get my own domain too.
Quicktime= i dont care who they do or dont support; QT7 is going to be amazing.
Tiger will be nice
as well as all these other improvements its going to be a nice OS.
As much as people claim they organize their computer well they are missing the point of spotlight. Currently I have a folder of PDF documents that contains sub folders by company and that might be further divided by sub folders down to specific areas/product lines within a company.
Sure I can find things quickly I've been using computers for two decades now. However even I realize that every Open/Save I do with PDFs means I have to drill down to the right folder depth. Even if you are meticulous about your computer Spotlight will make you faster and penalize you less in management duties.
In Tiger I will simply toss my PDF into one big flat file folder and let Spotlight pull what I need from the metadata. I can easily search and eradicate duplicate files or prune my system of storing uncessarily large files by creating folders that are set to my rules. No Spotlight isn't going to knock you on your ass but it will help those of us who have become hopelessly anal about our file organization relax a little. I'm guess some butts will become unpuckered rather quickly after some time with Tiger.
Dashboard is nice in that you can instantly reference what would take you 5-10 websites to accomplish. I know people that order stuff online every week. Think they won't like a package tracking widget?? In our new Global Economy it's important to know how the dollar does against the yen, euro and GBP. The unit conversion helps us poor "mericans understand how to translate our wonky system into the metric system. Thank God.
Automator will only be as good as the reach it has to speed up your daily repetitive tasks. Mileage is going to vary wildly with this one. I like anything that furthers scripting/automation myself however. If I use it on one task it'll be worth the effort Apple put into it.
Core Data isn't sexy. But if you're a developer who has an app that can deftly use it's persistent storage your fingers will thank you as they no longer have to type line after line of code. Don't expect instant gratification here but expect to see Carpal Tunnel reduced for Mac programmers LOL
Core Image/Audio/Video- Essential core technologies for multimedia. It's not about making photoshop killers or useless effects but rather making that ibook perform like a Powerbook because it's using the hardware that makes the most sense to complete tasks.
There are 150-200 new features in Tiger. Some are very small and inconsequential. Some will bring a smile to your face despite their apparent inconsequentiality. We all like mature product that oozes well thought out development.
Apple must boil down Tiger to 10 or so bullet points but even things like PDF handling with PDFkit or Image I/O excite me because it means less hassle with PDFs and less hassle with handling image files. Rendezvous or whatever they plan to call it will now work over a subnet. They just erased a businesses primarly problem with using Zeroconf.
Expect the networking stack to improve. Faster and more reliable connects to servers and resources.
Dashboard and Automator are highlighted to keep consumers happy. There are things in Tiger that will appeal to the propellerheads that aren't being discussed. They will once the NDA is over.
Sure I can find things quickly I've been using computers for two decades now. However even I realize that every Open/Save I do with PDFs means I have to drill down to the right folder depth. Even if you are meticulous about your computer Spotlight will make you faster and penalize you less in management duties.
In Tiger I will simply toss my PDF into one big flat file folder and let Spotlight pull what I need from the metadata. I can easily search and eradicate duplicate files or prune my system of storing uncessarily large files by creating folders that are set to my rules. No Spotlight isn't going to knock you on your ass but it will help those of us who have become hopelessly anal about our file organization relax a little. I'm guess some butts will become unpuckered rather quickly after some time with Tiger.
Dashboard is nice in that you can instantly reference what would take you 5-10 websites to accomplish. I know people that order stuff online every week. Think they won't like a package tracking widget?? In our new Global Economy it's important to know how the dollar does against the yen, euro and GBP. The unit conversion helps us poor "mericans understand how to translate our wonky system into the metric system. Thank God.
Automator will only be as good as the reach it has to speed up your daily repetitive tasks. Mileage is going to vary wildly with this one. I like anything that furthers scripting/automation myself however. If I use it on one task it'll be worth the effort Apple put into it.
Core Data isn't sexy. But if you're a developer who has an app that can deftly use it's persistent storage your fingers will thank you as they no longer have to type line after line of code. Don't expect instant gratification here but expect to see Carpal Tunnel reduced for Mac programmers LOL
Core Image/Audio/Video- Essential core technologies for multimedia. It's not about making photoshop killers or useless effects but rather making that ibook perform like a Powerbook because it's using the hardware that makes the most sense to complete tasks.
There are 150-200 new features in Tiger. Some are very small and inconsequential. Some will bring a smile to your face despite their apparent inconsequentiality. We all like mature product that oozes well thought out development.
Apple must boil down Tiger to 10 or so bullet points but even things like PDF handling with PDFkit or Image I/O excite me because it means less hassle with PDFs and less hassle with handling image files. Rendezvous or whatever they plan to call it will now work over a subnet. They just erased a businesses primarly problem with using Zeroconf.
Expect the networking stack to improve. Faster and more reliable connects to servers and resources.
Dashboard and Automator are highlighted to keep consumers happy. There are things in Tiger that will appeal to the propellerheads that aren't being discussed. They will once the NDA is over.
raggedjimmi said:
I think these two features are going to see the most of their usefulness in the hands of 3rd party developers. Rigth now, there might not be many widgets that get people drooling, but as we start seeing little widgets that pop up and fulfil niche functions that we really didn't want to launch a full feature application for, then it would be awesome. News ticker with article links, sports scores, easy widget access to our favorite information/encyclopedia sites, a picture frame widget that has a slideshow of our family pictures we can look at between busy spells, a widget that shows the clipboard so we can see what we have pasted to it easily and we can further manipluate the clipboard text before repasting it. Things we want instant access to and don't want to launch independent apps for.
As for spotlight, the more I hear about it, the more I feel like it will be worthwhile. I thought "I'm pretty organized too and when I get a new computer with Tiger preinstalled, I'll make sure everything that goes on it is filed away properly and I won't need to search so much." And then I realized how many log files from conversations I have and documents I have that have generic titles (e.g. L308 Paper 1) and so on and realized that Spotlight could be pretty useful. And maybe you only use the more advanced features once in a blue moon, but at least you're not wanting to kill somebody for the feature on the blue moon.
And plus I'm curious to see how 3rd party developers will utilize Spotlight. Then I think you'll be more excited about Spotlight beyond the smart folders.And on a side note, I'm not trying to correct you or educate you or lecture you, raggedjimmi. Your post just provided a great starting point for mine.
I started to feel like I was ragging on you in my post when in fact I'm trying to expand on your already good point! 