Tiger wont complete installation on new hard drive powerbook g4

MagB

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 23, 2014
28
0
London, UK
Hi there,


I've been trying to resurrect my brother's powerbook g4 15in 1.25 al
<the hard drive failed>

I've installed a new hard drive and I have the original TIGER 10.4.3 (includes xcode2 - 2Z691-5599-A) install disk that came with it.

I boot with Option or C and and the install disk loads and gives me the various options. I've tried a few times
( partitioning the drive first, as mac os extended journaled, with disk utility or doing it via the installer options in case it makes a difference)
but every time when it reaches 100% it goes into what I think is a kernel panic as the box with the "you must restart your computer" message appears over the top of the install screen and I have to follow orders!! Obviously there is no working os to reboot into.


I've tried to find this specific problem on the forums but I have come up with nothing.

I thought an AHT might be appropriate but that option doesnt come up on the startup manager screen (and I thought it would for this model and install disk)

I assume the disk is ok as it appears to finish the install and it also does a check up on the disk before the installation actually begins, if im not mistaken.

I have a couple of other macs which I could use to help it install. Although I haven't yet managed to get them talking via target mode this time around, i have done before, troubleshooting with the old hard drive installed.

If anyone has any insight into this id love to hear from ya. Thanks in advance!
 

MagB

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 23, 2014
28
0
London, UK
not for the first time

well, this is starting to be a habit for me on this forum...

I have tried several times to finish this installation as described.

I have just tried an eighth time, watching closely towards the end to see when exactly the crash occurs....and it works. Very strange!

Im on the welcome screen and it seems to be working nicely!
 

MagB

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 23, 2014
28
0
London, UK
nope, the problems kinda continue

it seemed to install fine and I got it connected to my wireless router via the setup.

Software update presented two updates, a Java and an os one (cant remember the name) which i thought sensible to install immediately.

When it finished it asked me to restart, which I did..... it didnt reboot twice... displaying the same kernel panic,

so i tried safe mode which didnt load up and instead restarted itself and now did boot up!

Ok, so for now it does seem to be working fine but it would be great to know if anyone thinks that these issues are anything to be concerned about.

I'd like to get him some more ram, a new battery and probably leopard too.
If anyone has any advice on making sure it wont be money wasted if there are other issues to consider here and best practice with upgrading this kind of machine, id love to hear it.

Thanks again
 

MagB

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 23, 2014
28
0
London, UK
.......

sorry for all these updates but i figure it may be helpful to others at some point

software update gave me another 4 to install. Another java, a migration assistant, a quicktime and a security update 2009-------

installed and rebooted and the same kernel panic. Twice.

Safe mode now works but restarts are met with kernel panic once or twice until randomly working.

new updates are

java for mac osx 10.4 release 5 and a safari 4.1.3 one
 

n0cus

macrumors 6502
Jul 16, 2012
340
1
sorry for all these updates but i figure it may be helpful to others at some point

software update gave me another 4 to install. Another java, a migration assistant, a quicktime and a security update 2009-------

installed and rebooted and the same kernel panic. Twice.

Safe mode now works but restarts are met with kernel panic once or twice until randomly working.

new updates are

java for mac osx 10.4 release 5 and a safari 4.1.3 one
I have the same exact PowerBook. This doesn't seem like a hard drive issue at this point. It sounds like it could be RAM related. You might want to try buying some RAM off of eBay or something and seeing if that helps.
 

Altemose

macrumors G3
Mar 26, 2013
9,171
479
Elkton, Maryland
sorry for all these updates but i figure it may be helpful to others at some point

software update gave me another 4 to install. Another java, a migration assistant, a quicktime and a security update 2009-------

installed and rebooted and the same kernel panic. Twice.

Safe mode now works but restarts are met with kernel panic once or twice until randomly working.

new updates are

java for mac osx 10.4 release 5 and a safari 4.1.3 one
These crashes sound just like a RAM failure. Try running AHT off the original disks or if you have a copy of ASD, use that.

I have the same exact PowerBook. This doesn't seem like a hard drive issue at this point. It sounds like it could be RAM related. You might want to try buying some RAM off of eBay or something and seeing if that helps.
Sounds like you speak from my experience, :rolleyes:.
 

Intell

macrumors P6
Jan 24, 2010
18,897
407
Inside
This could be caused by a failing memory slot. You could also try removing one of the sticks of memory and seeing if the problems disappear. Don't forget to try having just one stick installed at once in both the upper and lower slot. Could you post one of the kernel panic logs?
 

n0cus

macrumors 6502
Jul 16, 2012
340
1
These crashes sound just like a RAM failure. Try running AHT off the original disks or if you have a copy of ASD, use that.



Sounds like you speak from my experience, :rolleyes:.
You have taught me well Altemose!
 

MagB

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 23, 2014
28
0
London, UK
i feel like the droid that gets hung upside down and gets his feet branded!

----------

thanks for all the adveeece <pl.>

Scouring forums does seem to put forward the ram issue as the most likely.
I hope, i hope.

Im going to try the ram removal suggestion, thanks, and Ill then grab a copy of the log for you, Yoda
 

MagB

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 23, 2014
28
0
London, UK
....it did crash soon after taking the first ram chip out. Restarted and for now working fine (if a little slow with only 256 ram in it)

Here is the log which includes a couple of logs that occurred before the ram was removed, in case it provides anything of interest

Mon Sep 29 03:39:17 2014
panic(cpu 0 caller 0x000A8C00): Uncorrectable machine check: pc = 000000000090EF90, msr = 0000000040009030, dsisr = 40000000, dar = 00000000170D0040
AsyncSrc = 0000000000000000, CoreFIR = 0000000000000000
L2FIR = 0000000000000000, BusFir = 0000000000000000

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x000954F8 0x00095A10 0x00026898 0x000A8C00 0x000A7E90 0x000ABB80
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x20C0A780)
PC=0x0090EF90; MSR=0x40009030; DAR=0x170D0040; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x0090E36C; R1=0x0CDE3BB0; XCP=0x00000008 (0x200 - Machine check)
Backtrace:
0x01398600 0x0090D9D0 0x008FA0BC 0x002E9A80 0x002EB94C 0x0008C248
0x00029234 0x000233F8 0x000ABEAC 0x017229E0
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.ATIRadeon9700(4.1.8)@0x8f2000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.7)@0x48d000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.4.2)@0x890000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.4.2)@0x8b4000
Exception state (sv=0x2E7D7780)
PC=0x9000AF48; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0x010E9048; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x9000AE9C; R1=0xBFFFE230; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.11.0: Wed Oct 10 18:26:00 PDT 2007; root:xnu-792.24.17~1/RELEASE_PPC
*********

Mon Sep 29 13:02:06 2014
panic(cpu 0 caller 0x000A8C00): Uncorrectable machine check: pc = 000000000090EF90, msr = 0000000040009030, dsisr = 40000000, dar = 0000000011DFA040
AsyncSrc = 0000000000000000, CoreFIR = 0000000000000000
L2FIR = 0000000000000000, BusFir = 0000000000000000

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x000954F8 0x00095A10 0x00026898 0x000A8C00 0x000A7E90 0x000ABB80
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x1FE2D280)
PC=0x0090EF90; MSR=0x40009030; DAR=0x11DFA040; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x0090E36C; R1=0x07A73BB0; XCP=0x00000008 (0x200 - Machine check)
Backtrace:
0x00000020 0x0090D9D0 0x008FA0BC 0x002E9A80 0x002EB94C 0x0008C248
0x00029234 0x000233F8 0x000ABEAC 0x35222F26
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.ATIRadeon9700(4.1.8)@0x8f2000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.7)@0x48d000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.4.2)@0x890000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.4.2)@0x8b4000
Exception state (sv=0x1FE21780)
PC=0x9000AF48; MSR=0x0000F030; DAR=0x010EA048; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x9000AE9C; R1=0xBFFFE8E0; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.11.0: Wed Oct 10 18:26:00 PDT 2007; root:xnu-792.24.17~1/RELEASE_PPC

----------

do you guys know why i'm not finding AHT on the install disks. I read somewhere that this version should come with it.

I also read that testing ram is about the only truly useful thing it offers, is that so??
 

weckart

macrumors 603
Nov 7, 2004
5,005
2,263
The disk you are using is a developer's pre-release disk and not bundled with any specific hardware. That is probably why there is no AHT on it and why you might be having installation problems with it.

AFAIK, Tiger 10.4.2 was the final PPC release bundled with any machine.

[edit] Actually, scrub that. Your disk appears to be the retail 10.4.3 release. That will be why there are no extras on it apart from XCode.
 
Last edited:

MagB

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 23, 2014
28
0
London, UK
i thought ram replacement here was one of the easier jobs!
The hard drive was supposed to be difficult and....it wasnt, at all

However having taken the second ram chip out to run it off one chip in a different slot, I now cannot get any of the slots working. i.e the top slot's little arms/levers that you pull aside to make it angle up, they have stuck out and I cannot manage to get either slot to function.

Anyone encountered this before?

At this rate the best I'll ever be is Greedo getting shot in the bollocks!!
 

Zotaccian

macrumors 6502a
Apr 25, 2012
637
2
If it is ram slot problem, I assume it could sometimes lead to situation where the machine cannot boot because it is a solder failure. Installing and removing ram will cause wearing on solder and maybe that is why it doesn't boot no more.

In the kernel panic log there is stuff related to graphics mentioned, Radeon 9700 etc.
 

MagB

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 23, 2014
28
0
London, UK
The disk you are using is a developer's pre-release disk and not bundled with any specific hardware. That is probably why there is no AHT on it and why you might be having installation problems with it.

AFAIK, Tiger 10.4.2 was the final PPC release bundled with any machine.

[edit] Actually, scrub that. Your disk appears to be the retail 10.4.3 release. That will be why there are no extras on it apart from XCode.

Thanks for clearing that up man
 

MagB

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 23, 2014
28
0
London, UK
If it is ram slot problem, I assume it could sometimes lead to situation where the machine cannot boot because it is a solder failure. Installing and removing ram will cause wearing on solder and maybe that is why it doesn't boot no more.

In the kernel panic log there is stuff related to graphics mentioned, Radeon 9700 etc.
yeah, ive read about the solder issue although I think that that was more related to people realising that one of their ram chips was no longer (if ever) actually recognised.
Whereas in my case the ram has been recognised which is why , i think, others have suggested a bad ram chip issue.

I mention problems with the slots because I'm now having physical problems getting the ram back in. I'd be surprised if the reason im having trouble replacing the ram has something to do with the kernel panics but I am absolutely no Yoda.

Interesting about the graphics card.... but i have no idea how to read a panic log. I'll look into that also, thanks

One thing I havent mentioned in my previous, and long-winded posts on this issue, is the heat!

Especially the ram slot, gets pretty hot. Not the second-degree-burns-hot that some extreme cases have reported but pretty hot. I'm not sure where the graphics card is <below the battry and to the left of the ram??>.
I know that with my old white imac core2duo its major issue was the graphics card overheating....im not sure what other troubles graphics cards provide...i suppose failure, like everything else...


i feel that the replacing the ram pointer looked the most likely to solve it as the symptoms seem to match many others' and the fix seems to wrk for them.
I'm just gutted that this issue of the dodgy slot arms has reared its head to complicate proceedings
 

MagB

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 23, 2014
28
0
London, UK
here is an image of the ram slots.

the one on the right hand side does have a little crack in it, which may be preventing them from springing back into place or something. I have no idea if I did this or not or how I couldve as I was careful and didnt feel like I was forcing anything
 

weckart

macrumors 603
Nov 7, 2004
5,005
2,263
Are you having problems slotting the ram sticks in apart from the retainers? Perhaps a bent or broken contact somewhere? The only other thing that springs to mind, bearing your comments on hot chips, are the internal temps. Is the heat sink properly seated and are temps in the expected range? Might be worth checking with iStat Pro.
 

MagB

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 23, 2014
28
0
London, UK
well i thought i just uploaded an image

----------

Are you having problems slotting the ram sticks in apart from the retainers? Perhaps a bent or broken contact somewhere?
Basically it seems that the <empty> ram slots are flat, back in their "closed"/ down positions. However the top slot, its arms are splayed out, the way they are when you pull them apart to lift them, angle them up to remove or insert the chips
 

MagB

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 23, 2014
28
0
London, UK
Are you having problems slotting the ram sticks in apart from the retainers? Perhaps a bent or broken contact somewhere? The only other thing that springs to mind, bearing your comments on hot chips, are the internal temps. Is the heat sink properly seated and are temps in the expected range? Might be worth checking with iStat Pro.
i was going to download a temperature monitor last night wen things were working ok (downloaded tenfourfox and webkit as alt. browsers) but i forgot about istat pro and didnt get around to that check up. Now I cant get the the ram back in I cant conduct that check.
I havent checked the heat sink yet...
The heat issue i mentioned because it seemed to be coming mostly from the ram panel. Also there is little fan noise. Im not that familiar with powerbooks so unsure as to how normal that is and whether there could be heat sensor issues.
My impression is that it is just the ram and the hard drive and processor are <were> fine heat-wise.
 

Intell

macrumors P6
Jan 24, 2010
18,897
407
Inside
It appears to be caused by the GPU. Note: Tempature sensing software does not accurately sense the temperature of the GPU on this model.
 

MagB

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 23, 2014
28
0
London, UK
It appears to be caused by the GPU. Note: Tempature sensing software does not accurately sense the temperature of the GPU on this model.
thanks, do you mean the overheating that we've discussed or the original kernel panics, that are caused by the gpu?
 

Intell

macrumors P6
Jan 24, 2010
18,897
407
Inside
The kernel panics are caused by the GPU. Powerbook G4's ATI 9700 GPU do not have a very good thermal sensor and it can cause programs reading it to give very inaccurate readings. Best not to base any judgement onto them.
 
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