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Tile does location crowdsourcing -- reporting the location of any tile devices detected nearby (bluetooth) -- so they want the app to have location enabled even when in background.

If the crowdsourcing is supposed ot report the position of tiles located nearby **only if they have been reported missing**, why does Tile need to collect GPS data of where all users are at all times? They don't. That's an outright lie they want the GPS data to sell.

For the crowdsourced tile finding they could have a database of lost tiles and each device can report the tiles it finds by ID back to the server. Then if it turns out the tile is in the lost database the serve can then request the location data a single time.
 
Yep, let's just waste €m's on lawyers because we probably know it won't get us anywhere - if only we had you advising them!
So nobody ever wastes money on lawyers?

Lawyers perhaps already payed for?

Learn something new everyday.
 
respectfully disagree, if we’re talking software I’d agree with your point, but hardware once sold belongs to the consumer, Apple isn’t playing fair and making access available for all hardware to all developers.

ps I love tile products but hate their data policy, can’t wait to leave them

I would argue that with third-party apps, the danger of data collection abuse is much higher.

Apple isn't Google, so one can be reasonably certain that they won't be selling the collected data to third parties or using it for targeted ads.

With third-party apps the trust level is (and should be) much lower, and their privacy policies reflect as such.

The point of the new Find My system is that it doesn't share your device locations with Apple - they only share your location with you - because it is one of the specific parts of Apple's services that are end-to-end encryped.

Apple implements a feature which provides a service in a way which they know actively avoids violating your privacy. This is completely different from a 3rd party developer implementing a feature which - by its very nature - Apple can't determine how it would impact your privacy.

The latter has to be opt in. The former can reasonably be opt-out.

Besides, Apple is not developer centric. Apple is customer centric, and that’s precisely what I like about the company.

Developers are only an annoying sometime requirement of keeping customers happy. Apple will happily implement a feature to improve the user experience, and it that ends up killing a developer's business model, then Tile is just going to have to make better products or as suggested above, maybe sell themselves to google.
 
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I'm not a fan of Tile, but Apple discouraging permanent location tracking for apps yet doing it themselves and launching a product in competition to Tile most likely using technology that isn't available to third party apps is abuse of market position...

How? There are countless examples of companies making their own systems and making them the primary option. Especially with proprietary means.

And Apple isn’t (in theory) doing what they discourage others from doing as far as continual tracking. Apple is being more private with that data instead of monetizing it. Again, people may argue this, but that’s the sell. And therefore I would argue it’s a different product as a result despite how similar the hardware functions.

If there were a social media platform that DIDN’T monetize your data and kept your info private, and made money some other way, that may be a similar product, but the result of the service is completely different.
 
I have no respect for Tile. I have bought/used Tile in the past, even gave them as gifts. I have no respect for them as a company or product.
 
Not at all the same thing.

Apple used to give developers less restrictive rights. They are now curtailing it, yet they are allowing their own first-party apps and devices to have the less restrictive rights that they used to provide the developers.

While there are no exact parallels that I'm aware of, what Apple is doing reminds me most of what Microsoft did with Internet Explorer and Windows, and if you recall, Microsoft got their asses handed to them in court.
MS got their asses handed to them, not because of IE being pre-installed with Windows per-se.. it was because they were forcing PC manufacturers to preinstall windows that only contained IE. They were leveraging their position to ensure their software was installed on as many devices as possible or these 3rd party manufacturers paid a financial penalty.

Apple can install whatever they want on the devices they make. They are not forcing any third party to install iOS on their devices.
 
I've tried to like Tile, right from the beginning. In the beginning they sucked, had poor battery life, but they supported them well. As time goes on their hardware improves, but the company gets arrogant and makes their product difficult to live with. They insist and NAG to keep location services always turned on, so they can find other tiles. I'm sorry, that kills my battery so I guess I can't use your product. Otherwise, you can't even see your OWN tiles on a map unless you set location services to Always Allow. Great way to punish people who don't have a choice. They never gave us the option to choose what level of location services to allow-all to power their lost tile service. That's a nice idea, but I have neither the trust in your handing of my data nor the battery power to let that happen. Look at TrackR-they always had replaceable batteries AND let you set your level of location services. When I asked Tile about this I received an incredibly flippant and arrogant reply from someone higher than a support tech. The company is just arrogant. I hope Apple mops the floor with them.
 
So nobody ever wastes money on lawyers?

Lawyers perhaps already payed for?

Learn something new everyday.

Yes of course they do...but not intentionally. Nobody embarks on a case at huge costs because they think they’ll lose.
 
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The problem is Apple allows itself to do things in its own apps that it won't allow 3rd party apps to do. To that point, Tile has a good argument. Apple should have to play by their own rules for their apps too. There is an increasing trend of Apple taking over a segment by changing/limiting their rules, but not abiding by it themselves in the name of privacy (as if we should just trust them to always be perfect in their privacy intentions). For example, parental control apps being effectively gutted, Tile and location tracking, etc...

I guess it depends on whose perspective you look at matters from.

From the developer’s POV, it makes sense that they would want more freedom in how their products are allowed to work.

From the consumer’s perspective, I agree that everything should be disabled and opt-in by default. Simply because I often have no idea what the app is doing behind my back, so I have to rely on Apple to play enforcer for me.

And as far as Apple goes, it’s Apple first, consumers a close second, and developers a somewhat distant third, as it should be, considering that we users are the primary consumers, not developers.

If anything, I won’t be surprised if this attention was brought to Apple’s attention from user feedback about how their iPhones were experiencing poor battery life or bluetooth functionality, which in turn led Apple to investigate the matter further and conclude that they had a better way of enabling this sort of experience for the end user.

So if you want to do something new, you should have to create your own device? Under your argument, why should any apps be allowed at all? Why don't we go back to the original days of the iPhone where everything was 100% Apple? Why should we trust Apple and not third party app developers? Apple still controls the OS and isn't handing over any keys to competitors. But at some point, they need to play by the rules they set for their own playground. Non-essential apps (like Tile/Apple Tag) should have the same level of access.

Because from Apple’s perspective, it’s easier for Apple to police themselves than third parties. I believe Apple when they say that they have no interest in monetising my data and they have enough riding on that reputation they have so painstakingly built up over the years that it would be foolish to give it all up for whatever limited revenue or benefit can be had from selling my user data.

Or to put it another way, Apple has no incentive to.

Just look at how Tile works. I need to create an account before I can use the app, which then records my location dozens, maybe hundreds of times a day and sends that information to their cloud service. Going by how their Bluetooth tracker works, there should be no need for any of this, yet it’s there.

This is precisely the sort of rogue behaviour Apple set out to quash with their improved privacy settings. Meanwhile, Apple has come up with their own Bluetooth implementation which anonymises the users and makes it impossible to identify individuals even if the data gets leaked out, which is superior to what Tile has to offer (and will likely ever offer).

Perhaps if this was a more benign company in the news, I might be more sympathetic to their plight, but when the company accusing Apple is no angel themselves, I can only smirk and go “If Apple is giving you so much grief, than it’s evidence that users’ privacy is being enforced.”

And this is precisely what I pay Apple to do. Fight the battles that no one else can.
 
Are they going to prosecute Mercedes and BMW for illegally not selling Toyotas?
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Are they prosecution Italy’s monopoly on San Marzano tomatoes?

So you clearly dont comprehend the issue?

If the only way I can buy a Toyota is via a BMW dealership and that dealership makes it difficult for me to see or choose Toyota, then yes you would.
 
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Otherwise, you can't even see your OWN tiles on a map unless you set location services to Always Allow.
This should be against Apple's rules if it's not already. Permissions are not to be used as bargaining chips.

I still think the way Apple makes it hard to enable always-on location is user-hostile and unfair. The built-ins like iMessage don't even play by those rules. So Tile is right, it's just hard to feel bad for them.
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If really illegal a lawsuit might happen.

This article reads rather like they’ll file a complaint though.
About writing to the EU, international law is a different game.
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Maybe use the competition to make a better product. Apple has every right to “favor their own products”.
There are US laws explicitly forbidding that. A company can't use its dominance in one area to gain dominance in an unrelated one. Question is what is unrelated.
 
Apple really needs a 90s MS smackdown in the worst way. Their App Store policies are so obviously anti-competitive that Tim Cook May as well be walking around with a flashing neon “Look here FTC!” sign. The fact that it hasn’t actually happened yet is a testament to the stranglehold that corporate dollars have on our government.
 
AND, for tracking purposes, there are physically MORE Android devices out there. But, yeah, comes down to them requiring a subscription to make money.



They.... don’t? I mean, it’s not very hard to download those and give it a try. I downloaded Spotify and...
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And this is what I think is their real problem. When Tile first burst onto the scene, the landscape around privacy and tracking was a little different. But when you consider how it works, and add to that, that people better realize the value of their privacy/location, the feature better offer a superior experience. From what some others have posted, Tile hasn’t improved to the level where they deserve folks enabling tracking for them.

I have tracking turned on for Dark Sky and the OS pings me saying “Hey, Dark Sky has been tracking you in alllll these places”. I’m fine with that and click OK. Tile is afraid folks will see that and go ”NO I DON’T WANT THEM TRACKING ME, I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHERE MY DEVICES ARE” and turn it off.

I only know of a few devices with ”Tile Inside”. That’s where they should have been pushing all this time, but either their sales guy wasn’t good at b2b sales OR none of the businesses wanted it onboard.
Yes, but you can’t provide a link or let the user sign up there and then - you can’t deny that’s a worse user experience.
 
The built-ins like iMessage don't even play by those rules.
Don’t the built-ins like iMessage get their cues from the install process? If you say “no location tracking” then a lot of system level stuff just doesn’t work anymore. I know someone that always said “No” for that question and was always having some minor problem or another based on the feature they were using requiring location to work. “How is it that you can use Find My Phone but I can’t?” “Because they KNOW where my phone is....” I’d imagine the same would be true for iMessage... can’t message someone your location if iMessage doesn’t have access to location?
Yes, but you can’t provide a link or let the user sign up there and then - you can’t deny that’s a worse user experience.
So, PART of that statement is due to Apple and part due to Spotify. Spotify can’t put a link to an external website, BUT Spotify COULD absolutely let the user sign up there and then, but they’ve decided not to. Either way, it clearly isn’t hurting their business and it’s a completely different situation from “won’t let others mention the existence of a website to sign up.“ It’s a worse experience, but absolutely not catastrophically so. If a prospective Spotify-er doesn’t know how to find Spotify’s website... well, that’s an entirely different problem.
 
There is no technological reason for that.
There absolutely is, stop making things up. Your idea is inferior on all levels. Your conclusion is therefore also wrong. The reason is obviously not to sell information but to provide a good service, compared to the unusable one you propose.
 
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Apple really needs a 90s MS smackdown in the worst way. Their App Store policies are so obviously anti-competitive that Tim Cook May as well be walking around with a flashing neon “Look here FTC!” sign. The fact that it hasn’t actually happened yet is a testament to the stranglehold that corporate dollars have on our government.

At the time Microsoft was prosecuted its market share of desktop PC operating systems was about 95%. Apple's mobile phone market share is under 50% in the U.S. and much lower in the rest of the world. The do not have a dominant market position to abuse. Many (if not most) of Apple's iPhone users, have chosen the platform because of these consumer-focused policies, not despite them. To argue the situation is the same is to either mis-informed or disingenuous.
 
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So, PART of that statement is due to Apple and part due to Spotify. Spotify can’t put a link to an external website, BUT Spotify COULD absolutely let the user sign up there and then, but they’ve decided not to. Either way, it clearly isn’t hurting their business and it’s a completely different situation from “won’t let others mention the existence of a website to sign up.“ It’s a worse experience, but absolutely not catastrophically so. If a prospective Spotify-er doesn’t know how to find Spotify’s website... well, that’s an entirely different problem.

Yup, this was mentioned in my original post; Spotify (and others like Netflix/Amazon) are choosing to avoid the 30% cut but I think it's a really bad practice on Apple's part to require them to do so at the expense of a poor user experience. Want to buy an ebook through Amazon? All you can do is add it to your wish list. Want to sign up to Netflix or Spotify there and then? Nope, you'll have to go to the website. My point is purely that Apple refuses to budge on allowing for different payment providers and is happy to make the UX worse. It seems like we disagree, but that's OK.
 
More and more I'm starting to think I may have no choice but to jump to Linux my self at some point. Thanks for nothing Apple.
The sooner you move, the better. I’ve been helping people migrate to non-Apple solutions for years... and during that whole time, I was HOPING Apple didn’t do anything to regain their trust. Luckily for me, they never did :) And, when the Mac Pro was released, they were extremely happy that none of that nonsense mattered to them. There was a couple years of regret/remorse, sure, but they really just needed to break that emotional tie.

Now, they’ve got a whole huge universe of solutions to choose from on their terms.
My point is purely that Apple refuses to budge on allowing for different payment providers and is happy to make the UX worse. It seems like we disagree, but that's OK.
I agree with you there, I just don’t agree with “won’t let Spotify, Netflix, Amazon and others mention the existence of a website to sign up.”
 
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