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In this case they help the terrorist and not the government so who do they support? Also no need for a generic backdoor. The FBI can deliver just this phone to Apple secret lab. They do their data magic there and hand over the phone in its original state and the data on a USB stick.


It is more complex than that. Suppose Apple does as you say, and then the FBI's request is found to be unconstitutional. At that point surely Apple would be guilty of a crime.
 
It is more complex than that. Suppose Apple does as you say, and then the FBI's request is found to be unconstitutional. At that point surely Apple would be guilty of a crime.

C'mon. If the FBI has a search warrant from a court because they have a suspects phone I would be more worried that they are guilty if they do not help..
 
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Once the security of your/my iPhone is compromised - and it would be when Apple provides the FBI with a solution to get into the stored data of the iPhone in question, then any thief could access your/my previously secure data once he has physical possession of that iPhone.
 
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In addition, I really don't want my device to become easily accessibly just because of some lunacy by USA's government. In the unfortunate case that Apple is forced to comply, I hope that the backdoor will only be incorporated into the devices sold at the USA market and not in countries which respect private ownership.

Then the terrorist will just buy the non-USA version and slap their sim into it. You would have to mandate all carriers to block all non-USA iPhones including every other non-USA phone in the market.
Then the next time a law abiding person visits the USA your phone basically will not work. See how messy and costly this would be.
 
What if they make a backdoor and then a terrorist steels some FBI agent (or another key personnel ) his cellphone and finds thanks to this backdoor information he is not supposed to see?

Would in that case Apple be a "terroris helper?"....

Then the next time a law abiding person visits the USA your phone basically will not work.
Then I simply won't travel to a place that doesn't care about my privacy ;)
 
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Ultimately, Cook says, encryption helps keep people's data safe, which in turn keeps people's personal safety from being at risk.

Cook says that while the government is suggesting that bypassing a feature that disables an iPhone after a certain number of failed password attempts could only be used once and on one device, that suggestion is "simply not true." He says that once created, such a key could be used over and over again. "In the physical world, it would be the equivalent of a master key, capable of opening hundreds of millions of locks -- from restaurants and banks to stores and homes," Cook says.

I've been critical of some of Tim Cook's decision in recent years, but in this he is 100% correct.
This goes far beyond hacking this one iPhone in question. If the government was just after this 1 phone they could send it to a special lab to extract and image the memory chip, dump it on a supercomputer and using known patterns contained in iOS unlock the user portion of the memory by brute force decryption. This can be done without Apple's involvement and outside of iOS and I'm quite certain this IS being done in parallel. Decryption still could take years though.

This is about precedent and allowing future real-time access to ANYONE's iPhone in the entire world, well beyond US borders. Let's see if the US is willing to destroy Apple over this and ignore privacy laws in Europe for instance.
99.9% of privacy is gone as it is, even on iPhones. The government (or others with the right tools) can monitor your call, or eavesdrop on you with fake cell towers. They can monitor your movements and anything you type on your laptop at home or at work. The NSA many years ago developed spyware that they've loaded on the phones of targeted individuals.
Ed Snowden told us so.

TC understands, there's no "a little bit pregnant" equivalent of providing a backdoor. Either ALL iPhones can be unlocked or none!

This is the last bastion of a shred of privacy. It has nothing to do with supporting terrorism as some here have suggested, it's about everyone's privacy including politicians and authorities. If you create a backdoor, that backdoor can be used by the same terrorists to target and plan other attacks. Unfortunately there's no magic bullet here to "fix" terrorism and demanding Apple allow backdoors in iOS will not make any of us any safer.
 
Not sure what is patriotic about this. To me it is more a marketing move but maybe you can explain how not helping the authorities is patriotic.

Yes lets stop making fertilizer, because someone might use it to blow a building, lets stop making kitchen knives and axes. Lets stop making 3d printers. He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.
 
Seriously? Using Tim Cook's example, if a judge believes there is probable cause that a restaurant or bank is holding information vital to a criminal case, there is a simple "master key" used thousands of times a day - a warrant. Warrants are served with brute force all the time. This situation should be no different.
 
This is going to be an event that will change privacy rules on our phones and electronic devices. If the government is successful, we will loose our privacy. However, the other side of the coin is without it, we loose a valuable tool to help fight terrorism. It's a tough one. I've always been a huge fan of privacy... but I'm not a fan of terrorists either.

It's not the intended use that a problem... it's the door it opens for abuse that scares most people. A tough position and it will be interesting to see how this pans out. I hate to say it, but I think the governments will win.
 
Apple controls users more than even Google. But now, after a terrorist act, they get a media-shocking opportunity, Tim Cook sees it and uses it for shouting out loud how much Apple cares for users privacy.

This guy is just about media flashing. Politics, lobbying, politically-correctness, that's Tim's agenda.

If he got fired, he wouldn't start a new NeXT company, unlike Steve Jobs. Instead, he would run for president or start an LGBT association.

Please fire this guy (and now please), and bring Apple back to the place it should never had left (which used to be being user-friendly instead of the current Microsoft-ish corporate-friendliness).
 
This is a battle they will lose, proving someone committed a crime is more important.

Absolutely right. I understand Apple's stance here, but it sets a very dangerous precedent. This phone can potentially reveal information that could lead to information on other terrorist cells. It makes the iPhone a favorite means of guaranteeing the safety and security of criminal information. I am all for the right to privacy, but if it means that we cannot prevent other acts of terrorism as a result, it is worth the price?
 
Sorry Tim , I think you draw the wrong line. Supporting terrorism is just plain wrong. Any righteous person has nothing to hide from the government.

As far as I understood the FBI needs access to just this phone. I think Apple blew this for marketing reasons entirely out of proportion. If they (Apple) are able to access the data on that phone they should just help the FBI in a way that this is a one time only event. The FBI can deliver this phone to apple and they could have pulled the data off the phone in one of their secret labs and then hand back the phone and separately the data. No need to give the FBI a general key.

To quote the article:

Once you open that door, it will be forever open...

Hypothetical reasoning doesn't do anybody any good and is not only counterproductive, but completely misses the point. There are thousands of these scenarios posed all the time, such as the ethics of human experiments if it meant that medicine created as a result of these experiments could assist the greater good.

Often what these sort of circular arguments miss is that you begin with a hypothetical to justify the end reasoning. What if, hypothetically, this backdoor exploit meant that terrorists would be able to get information from officials and politicians' phones, which in itself enables another 9/11 -- when ironically that's what the backdoor was meant to prevent?

It's exactly the same hypothesis that doesn't really have an answer, and frankly doesn't matter.

If this sort of thing is pushed through, it would be at the expense of privacy and freedom. That much is a fact. So it's best to ignore what could happen, and instead look at what would happen, then make a reasoned decision from there. Manipulating people's emotions, fears and uncertainty to justify unprecedented acts has historically never, ever ended well.

Well said... in addition, it is hypothetical reasoning that our Governments, USA, UK, EU continue to use in order to brainwash and scaremonger the general populous into believing that "if you having nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear". Hence, throw away your privacy in return for protection.

What people miss is, it is information that will overthrow the status quo at present. Frustratingly, it is taking time to trickle down to the people. And those at the top, are terrified of losing power over us. In order to continue their current regime, it means gathering as much data about us as possible. We are fast surpassing the horror that the novel 1984 described and it really is only a matter of time before you will be taken away for thinking bad thoughts.

I, for one, support Apple's decision and feel encouraged with the outcome, thus far.
 
Seriously? Using Tim Cook's example, if a judge believes there is probable cause that a restaurant or bank is holding information vital to a criminal case, there is a simple "master key" used thousands of times a day - a warrant. Warrants are served with brute force all the time. This situation should be no different.
Restaurant? You mean like on a plate?
 
Yes lets stop making fertilizer, because someone might use it to blow a building, lets stop making kitchen knives and axes. Lets stop making 3d printers. He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.

I did not say lets stop making phones so what is the analogy here? FBI believes that they need access to just this phone. A judge grants that access by a warrant. Apple should help.

If as a results the FBI wanted a generic key (but thats not what the story nor Cook himself is saying) then there is a need for discussion between Apple and authorities. Cook can discuss this even with Obama if he feels a need.
 
This is a battle they will lose, proving someone committed a crime is more important.

Isn't the proof already evident?

I too think they will ultimately lose, however I'm not sure how it'll happen as I can't see them complying either. Will other tech/handset companies follow suit and stand in unison? If they all say no to creating backdoors and all ceased sales, forcing the economy into a dive, who would chicken out first? :p
 
Fantastic Apple..now you become the preferred communication supplier for terrorists.

Again - I think there is no need for a generic back door key for the FBI or any other authority. Once a federal agency has physical access to a suspects phone and they do have a legal warrant from a judge to search this Apple should support the authorities by access the data on their site and handing back data and phone as separate entities without giving a generic key.

Oh please..... I hope you allow them to gain access to your private information on your phone. Always feels good when it ain't pointed at you.
 
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It is more complex than that. Suppose Apple does as you say, and then the FBI's request is found to be unconstitutional. At that point surely Apple would be guilty of a crime.

Except a judge has said Apple has to help the FBI. It isn't the FBI saying it. It is the judge. Apple's lawyers had their chance to argue it and lost.

Don't blame the player, blame the game. Isn't that Apple's attitude with laws when they pay very little taxes?

Now Apple wants to move the game from the court room to social media, asking applefans for help.
 
Isn't the proof already evident?

I too think they will ultimately lose, however I'm not sure how it'll happen as I can't see them complying either. Will other tech/handset companies follow suit and stand in unison? If they all say no to creating backdoors and all ceased sales, forcing the economy into a dive, who would chicken out first? :p

I don't think so..... it will bubble up to the Supreme court and there is nothing in the constitution that give the government the right for a private firm/person to be forced to make something.
 
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