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If it's a four digit passcode like I suspect it is, they can just brute force it.

If this is the case they they are simply using this one case as leverage to get a backdoor into iOS, in which case they can shove it up their ****.
 
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Sorry LaForge, if selling an iPhone is linked to supporting terrorism, how would you qualify the arms seller?

Many technology is multi use. In my opinion it is far fetched to label the primary function of a smart phone as tool-of-terrorist. On the other hand, the primary function of a gun is to slam a bullet into somebody/ something.

And FBI, if you really want to dig into the culprits mind, aks Mr Smith of the Matrix how to plug in.

Sorry tcgjeukens, but not selling the phone is the issue but not supporting the authorities. You miss the point. Btw - I am against selling guns.
 
Supporting terrorism is just plain wrong. Any righteous person has nothing to hide from the government.

Fantastic Apple..now you become the preferred communication supplier for terrorists.

"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say" - Edward Snowden
 
For tax purposes, he says he follows the law. In this FBI story, Apple doesn't want to follow the law and ignore what the judge has ordered them to do.

Understand?

No, i don't. They disagree with the judge and will fight this in court of law. You know the one where reason and logic should be above everything?
 
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"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say" - Edward Snowden

Snowden, that's the guy currently in Russia who has a vendetta against the US Government right? Ever wonder what he is up to over there and why the Russians allowed him to stay there?
 
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Then the terrorist will just buy the non-USA version and slap their sim into it. You would have to mandate all carriers to block all non-USA iPhones including every other non-USA phone in the market.
Then the next time a law abiding person visits the USA your phone basically will not work. See how messy and costly this would be.

I am sure that most europeans won't mind getting a cheap replacement phone for the visit to the USA. Makes much more sense then exposing all my data to the authorities.
 
What guarantee do you have that the people in this "secret lab" will not leak this information or if Apple is hacked and the method leaks online? If you ran a company that had the tools to do this can you trust everybody involved 100%?
There is a reason why disinfectant wipes say that it kills only 99.999% of germs out there. There is always that 0.001% chance that a unknown germ is lurking out there. In this case the odds are greater that a "secret lab" won't remain secret any longer hence the threat to do more harm than good.
If hackers can still find ways to jail break iPhone's then Apple's secret lab won't be invincible. There are always weaknesses in the armor.

That sounds a bit paranoid, but fine. We do not know about iPhone 7, Skylake MBP, the next Mac mini or Mac Pro, iOS 10 (I know a bit :) Mac OS 10.12 so Apple seems to be pretty good at keeping secrets.
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Oh please..... I hope you allow them to gain access to your private information on your phone. Always feels good when it ain't pointed at you.

I am not a terrorist, I guess thats why. And if someone had the info on my phone it would be pretty boring. Also most of it is in the icloud, flickr and so on anyway so whats the rest that doesn't go through public network that is so secret?
 
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That sounds a bit paranoid, but fine. We do not know about iPhone 7, Skylake MBP, the next Mac mini or Mac Pro, iOS 10 (I know a bit :) Mac OS 10.12 so Apple seems to be pretty good at keeping secrets.
A secret and something like described are 2 different thing... and not like apples and oranges but like apples and rockets!
 
Yes because you are allowed an unlimited amount of tries with a four digit code.....

If it's not set to erase all data then yes, you can.

EDIT Just looked this up as I thought the above was the case - turns out I don't quite know the passcode attampt rules.. :rolleyes:
 
"Sorry Tim , I think you draw the wrong line. Supporting terrorism is just plain wrong. Any righteous person has nothing to hide from the government.

As far as I understood the FBI needs access to just this phone. I think Apple blew this for marketing reasons entirely out of proportion. If they (Apple) are able to access the data on that phone they should just help the FBI in a way that this is a one time only event. The FBI can deliver this phone to apple and they could have pulled the data off the phone in one of their secret labs and then hand back the phone and separately the data. No need to give the FBI a general key.

Fantastic Apple..now you become the preferred communication supplier for terrorists.

Again - I think there is no need for a generic back door key for the FBI or any other authority. Once a federal agency has physical access to a suspects phone and they do have a legal warrant from a judge to search this Apple should support the authorities by access the data on their site and handing back data and phone as separate entities without giving a generic key.


What you are missing is the fact that according to Apple, this 'backdoor' doesn't exist in any form, and to create it would be a huge mistake as once its out there, whether in a secure lab at Apple or the FBI, someone involved with the creation would ultimately succumb to pressure, beit financial or worse to reveal those secrets and thus making the backdoor accessible to anyone!

Right now Apple are stating that even they cannot access this information. Period.

To ask them to create software that WOULD allow them access would ultimately undo all the good they have done in regard to security.

Hypothetically, if this backdoor were to be created and the FBI find that there is nothing of interest on the device then wouldn't that be horrific?

Remember the invention of the first nuclear weapons....

In a 1965 television broadcast about the moments following the Trinity test, Oppenheimer said: "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried. Most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty, and, to impress him, takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another."

And now this tech is in the hands of people who the majority of the world know are unstable enough or deluded enough to use it!
 
Fantastic Apple..now you become the preferred communication supplier for terrorists.

Again - I think there is no need for a generic back door key for the FBI or any other authority. Once a federal agency has physical access to a suspects phone and they do have a legal warrant from a judge to search this Apple should support the authorities by access the data on their site and handing back data and phone as separate entities without giving a generic key.
That's not how it works. As Cook said, providing a backdoor to one device would provide a backdoor to every device using Apple's encryption. It's tantamount to providing a master key to everyone's house, to be used by the government any time, without any warning or notice. It would be a revolutionary change if we suddenly expected the government to have access to everything in our homes without any due process. It would be like transforming the US into China.
 
it is not that simple to just "pulled the data off the phone in one of their secret labs". Security was designed and embedded from the beginning when they designed the iOS. you can't just pull data out for one phone since it has no door.

In order to pull data out of one phone, they have to redesign the iOS to create a door, which basically a door to every iphone out there.

and this is not "one time only event". once succeeded, FBI and other agencies will come for more. and this will not only affect iphone in the US. everyone in the world is affected. China/Russia governments would love to break this door, once created by Apple.

Like Cook said, this one event will have a huge impact on security of millions of people. Imagine that China can use this door to monitor everyone and jail and torture people. a righteous person would want to hide from this government. and the terrorist succeeds in destroying our security/freedom.

Not sure if we did read the same article. To me the FBI wants access to this one phone and thats what is the warrant about. I did not read that the warrant is to design iOS 10 in a way thats the FBI get a backdoor.
 
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Sorry Tim , I think you draw the wrong line. Supporting terrorism is just plain wrong. Any righteous person has nothing to hide from the government.

As far as I understood the FBI needs access to just this phone. I think Apple blew this for marketing reasons entirely out of proportion. If they (Apple) are able to access the data on that phone they should just help the FBI in a way that this is a one time only event. The FBI can deliver this phone to apple and they could have pulled the data off the phone in one of their secret labs and then hand back the phone and separately the data. No need to give the FBI a general key.

To quote the article:

It frightens me that you have the means to vote.
 
I agree, my privacy is worth far more than you or your families lives. I would much rather see you and your family violently killed and the killers get away with it than have pictures of my cats exposed.

Do you really believe that having back doors in our phones will stop terrorism? 911 happened in 2001; the iPhone came out in 2007. Terrorism existed way before mobile phones became popular. If you really believe that putting back doors in everything we use will stop terrorism people need to wake up. It's bigger than the tech we use. For every terrorist act stopped by a back door there could be 9 more waiting to happen through unconventional means.
 
It's tricky I know.
Of course, like everyone here I am all for privacy.

On the other hand, those here saying how much they support this.
If they had just had photo's sent to them of their 8 year old daughter raped, and being told she is being held until killed, I wonder how much these same people would say, YES these people should be protected by Apple.

It's a tricky one, that's easy to say when it's not you that's affected.

Would america back Apple if America was under threat.... I suspect not.

America is under threat. By the FBI, and ignorant people who would support the insanity that they're pushing.
 
Snowden, that's the guy currently in Russia who has a vendetta against the US Government right? Ever wonder what he is up to over there and why the Russians allowed him to stay there?

Turns out he has a vendetta against overreaching governments who perform illegal mass surveillance which was found to be unconstitutional. I don't wonder what he is up to in Russia because he has already stated it. His girlfriend moved there to live with him and he does consulting work for a internet security firm. He is outside the reach of US, aka SAFE. Remember when the US took down the bolivian presidents plane because they thought he might be on it? Remember when they hit him with charges that he would be unable to defend himself from, removing any hope of a fair trial?
 
THIS, alone is why every Apple product is worth what they are and then some to me.
 
What you are missing is the fact that according to Apple, this 'backdoor' doesn't exist in any form, and to create it would be a huge mistake as once its out there, whether in a secure lab at Apple or the FBI, someone involved with the creation would ultimately succumb to pressure, beit financial or worse to reveal those secrets and thus making the backdoor accessible to anyone!

Right now Apple are stating that even they cannot access this information. Period.

If they cannot do it - fine. No need to pull this marketzing stunt
 
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Do you really believe that having back doors in our phones will stop terrorism? 911 happened in 2001; the iPhone came out in 2007. Terrorism existed way before mobile phones became popular. If you really believe that putting back doors in everything we use will stop terrorism people need to wake up. It's bigger than the tech we use. For every terrorist act stopped by a back door there could be 9 more waiting to happen through unconventional means.

I was simply with someone who said he would rather die in a terrorist attack than have his privacy invaded. I would rather he and his family were killed and the killers get away with it because Tim Cook refused to follow the law and help law enforcement. Keeping pictures of cats private is far more important than anyones lives, including you and your family.
 
"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say" - Edward Snowden

Let's just dump everything into one bucket and call it a day, shall we?
 
Apple controls users more than even Google. But now, after a terrorist act, they get a media-shocking opportunity, Tim Cook sees it and uses it for shouting out loud how much Apple cares for users privacy.

This guy is just about media flashing. Politics, lobbying, politically-correctness, that's Tim's agenda.

If he got fired, he wouldn't start a new NeXT company, unlike Steve Jobs. Instead, he would run for president or start an LGBT association.

Please fire this guy (and now please), and bring Apple back to the place it should never had left (which used to be being user-friendly instead of the current Microsoft-ish corporate-friendliness).

Ok...
 
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