Tim Cook Asked About Larger iPhone at China Mobile Launch

[Abazigal]

Completely agreed. 4" is just not cutting it anymore. The perfect comparison is with computer monitors. There was a time when 17" seemed plenty, but try getting work done on a monitor that small nowadays.

Except that a monitor just sits around on your desk, and you don't have to lug it around.

Same thing with a larger laptop. It has a larger display, and more room for battery and better specs, but the tradeoff is that it is heavier and bulkier to carry around.

There are people getting meaningful work done on an 11" macbook air. Take this guy for example. He traded down from a retina MBP to an 11" macbook air, and he uses it for tasks like graphic design, logic cut pro and final cut pro. His only gripe is the poor quality of the display, but otherwise, he actually feels that he can get more done on the air, since there aren't larger screens for him to clutter with multiple apps.

http://www.idownloadblog.com/2013/11/30/why-i-love-the-11-inch-macbook-air/

Same thing with a larger phone. A larger screen also means a bigger size to carry around. Some won't mind, some definitely will. I think it's fallacious to claim that a larger screen automatically equates to an objectively better device.

 

[LostSoul80]

Can't wait for the bigger screen... Not.

 

[Gudi]

So because of developers... the iPhone can never change. That's crazy.

It can change and it has changed twice by going Retina and going taller. But it can not support multiple resolutions for an unlimited amount of time because of developers. For a short transition period interface designers have to deal with multiple resolution, until the old legacy resolution is phased out and everything is back to normal. Normal means there is only one resolution per category of iOS devices. One for iPhone, one for iPad. And one for some future device that isn't just a bigger phone or a smaller tablet, but a watch or a tv or something else.

This is more likely... same resolution on a larger screen.

It's the far better way of providing different screen sizes under iOS and therefore it's the only possibility for Apple to consider. Still they decided against it with the iPhone 5c. The decision against same resolution on a larger screen has already been made.

Let's face it... iOS is still the most desirable platform for developers. They will do whatever they have to do in order to build apps for the iPhone.

A day has only 24 hours and even Apple can't change that. The only way to increase productivity in programming is to reuse code and avoid doing work twice. iOS is a desirable development platform only because Apple makes the decisions necessary to achieve that. It is necessary that all iPhones return to having the same resolution.

Apple tells developers what to do... not the other way around.

That's not how it works. Apple figures out the best way to do something to achieve all goals and developers agree. It is not, I tell you what you have to do and you do it.

If Apple changes anything else in the future... developers will follow right along. It's their job. I might agree with you if ZERO phones larger than 4" have ever been purchased. But that's clearly not the case.

Their job is to make their customers happy. That could mean anything including abandoning the iOS platform altogether. Zero iPhones larger than 4" have ever been purchased and Apple customers are perfectly happy, naming the better app selection compared to Android as one of the main reasons. So better keep developers working on better apps, not the same apps in different sizes.

Some people like larger phones for various reasons.

People don't know what they like until you show it to them. Currently people like the iPad mini with Retina Display because all of their old iPad apps work fine on the same resolution screen. If you want to provide a slightly smaller or bigger form factor, that is the way how to do it.

Apple didn't want the 5c to be bigger and they think you are stupid for asking for it. Believe me, they have tested a bigger iPhone and the designers don't like it. In the voice of Steve Jobs: "They are crap. Who wants to have a brick in his pocket? We don't build mediocre products at Apple."

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What?

Sorts of beer per country:

5 Luxemburg
7 Irland
11 Netherlands
15 Denmark
18 Italy
25 France
93 Great Britain
117 Belgium
5.000 - 6.000 Germany
10.000 - 15.000 Worldwide (including Germany)

 

[Michael Scrip]

...

I guess we need to see what Apple decides to do. I think we've said all we can at this point.

As for the 5C not being bigger... the 5C is last year's model dropped by $100 like they've done for many years. Only this time... they put it in a plastic case.

The 5C has the same hardware as the old iPhone 5... but it's in a plastic case.

Everyone was swayed by rumors that the 5C was gonna be cheaper and bigger... but those rumors turned out to be false.

I'm curious to see what they do every year going forward. For a long time they simply kept the old models on the market and just reduced the price.

As for resolution... I'm having a hard time believing that iPhones will be stuck at 1136x640 forever. Yes... it makes it "easy" for developers... but that's such a silly artificial limitation. I wouldn't be surprised if the iPhone changes resolution again... and developers shouldn't be shocked by it either.

 

[lobeyonekenobi]

It can change and it has changed twice by going Retina and going taller. But it can not support multiple resolutions for an unlimited amount of time because of developers. For a short transition period interface designers have to deal with multiple resolution, until the old legacy resolution is phased out and everything is back to normal. Normal means there is only one resolution per category of iOS devices. One for iPhone, one for iPad. And one for some future device that isn't just a bigger phone or a smaller tablet, but a watch or a tv or something else.
It's the far better way of providing different screen sizes under iOS and therefore it's the only possibility for Apple to consider. Still they decided against it with the iPhone 5c. The decision against same resolution on a larger screen has already been made.
A day has only 24 hours and even Apple can't change that. The only way to increase productivity in programming is to reuse code and avoid doing work twice. iOS is a desirable development platform only because Apple makes the decisions necessary to achieve that. It is necessary that all iPhones return to having the same resolution.
That's not how it works. Apple figures out the best way to do something to achieve all goals and developers agree. It is not, I tell you what you have to do and you do it.
Their job is to make their customers happy. That could mean anything including abandoning the iOS platform altogether. Zero iPhones larger than 4" have ever been purchased and Apple customers are perfectly happy, naming the better app selection compared to Android as one of the main reasons. So better keep developers working in better apps, not the same apps in different sizes.
People don't know what they like until you show it to them. Currently people like the iPad mini with Retina Display because all of their old iPad apps work fine on the same resolution screen. If you want to provide a slightly smaller or bigger form factor, that is the way how to do it.

Apple didn't want the 5c to be bigger and they think you are stupid for asking for it. Believe me, they have tested a bigger iPhone and the designers don't like it. In the voice of Steve Jobs: "They are crap. Who wants to have a brick in his pocket? We don't build mediocre products at Apple."

----------


Sorts of beer per country:

5 Luxemburg
7 Irland
11 Netherlands
15 Denmark
18 Italy
25 France
93 Great Britain
117 Belgium
5.000 - 6.000 Germany
10.000 - 15.000 Worldwide (including Germany)

It was an analogy, don't take life so seriously and just because Germany has thousands of types of beer means jack.

Seriously are you telling me only one type of phone is good and will be forever, companies need to evolve as do products and I am an Apple fan but can see they need to do something different this time around, try to expand their user base and not get stuck in a rut, isn't that good business sense??

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Yes, it is. Though I wouldn't call having one extra size of phone and a few extra colors an overwhelming amount of redundant options. Plus I wouldn't consider a 5" phone a phablet.

"Do you want your new iPhone in big or small, sir? And what color would you like? Dark grey, space grey or champagne"?

"OH GOD! TOO MUCH! IT'S TOO MUCH! WHICH DO I DECIDE BETWEEN? SO...MANY...CHOICES! BRAIN! OVERLOADING! CAN'T...TAKE....MUCH..MORE"!

:insert scene from Scanners here:

Interesting and funny post

Human brain way more complex than any computer ever built yet can't fathom a colour and size.......ahhhhhhh!!

 

[Gudi]

It was an analogy, don't take life so seriously and just because Germany has thousands of types of beer means jack.

It means no one can make a big profit in the german beer market. Anheuser-Busch sells more hectoliter of Bud than all german breweries combined. It's the equivalent to the PC market, with choice comes doom.

Seriously are you telling me only one type of phone is good and will be forever, companies need to evolve as do products and I am an Apple fan but can see they need to do something different this time around, try to expand their user base and not get stuck in a rut, isn't that good business sense??

Seriously, I'm telling you that supporting more than one screen resolution per iDevice category is economic suicide. iPhones and iPads are worth a premium because every app is pixel-perfect. Apple itself brags in its keynotes about, how iPad apps are not just scaled up phone apps, like they are on Android. To achieve that, you have to do all the interface layout work twice.

With 80.300 employees Apple couldn't even finish updating its own iBooks app in time for the release of iOS7. It's not only to spare third-party developers unnecessary work, Apple itself will avoid adding a third resolution interface to all of its apps by all means. If not for creating a whole new device category, like an iOS based TV, they will always stick to two resolution of iOS apps.

And by doing less, they get at least the chance of doing everything great.

As for resolution... I'm having a hard time believing that iPhones will be stuck at 1136x640 forever. Yes... it makes it "easy" for developers... but that's such a silly artificial limitation.

They are not stuck to one specific resolution, but one single resolution which can change over time.

 

[zipa]

Apple itself brags in its keynotes about, how iPad apps are not just scaled up phone apps, like they are on Android. To achieve that, you have to do all the interface layout work twice.

This makes absolutely no sense. On iOS, you'll have to code two different layouts, one for phone, one for iPad. For Android you can code one layout and scale that to different display sizes, or you can code multiple layouts for all imaginable combinations of screen size and resolution. I'd take the Android-way any time.

 

[Gudi]

This makes absolutely no sense. On iOS, you'll have to code two different layouts, one for phone, one for iPad. For Android you can code one layout and scale that to different display sizes, or you can code multiple layouts for all imaginable combinations of screen size and resolution. I'd take the Android-way any time.

You would, but Google wouldn't. All phone manufacturers would rather be in Apples position, than in their own. Google even bought Motorola to be able to make money on hardware sales and failed so far. Samsung is desperately copying every aspect of the iPhone design. Everyone wants to be Apple, but no one else can. Apples goal in this game is to stay Apple, to remain what made them great.

And that is to focus on very few product lines and bring them to perfection.​

 

[sixrom]

It looks like Apples about to cave in to the competition so they can grab more money. If they try to keep the myth going about tiny screens being the perfect size they'll lose out on what they value more than their customers.

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You would, but Google wouldn't. All phone manufacturers would rather be in Apples position, than in their own.

Citation required

 

[RebornProphet]

Please explain to me why a larger phone is such an affront to your sensibilities? I don't think anyone is saying get rid of the 4" iPhone. What people are asking for is another option; the larger iPhone. A 5" phone is not a mini tablet. I'm sorry, it's just not. Once you get into the Note sized phones maybe you're more right than wrong.

If Apple decided to drop the 4" handset altogether then by all means let the pitchforks come out. Giving their customers more choice is a win/win for Apple and the customers.

I just don't understand all the premature hand wringing. What's really tiresome is having no size option with a product you consider great... but would be even greater with a bit more real estate.

It's nothing to do with "sensibilities". While I'm a big bloke I still find a phone the size of the Galaxy S4 uncomfortable to use with one hand. It can be done, as I said I'm a big bloke and have large hands, but I have no desire to switch to two handed operation on an iPhone.

Can Apple make a 5" iPhone that works as well one handed as the current models? We shall see.

 

[zipa]

You would, but Google wouldn't. All phone manufacturers would rather be in Apples position, than in their own. Google even bought Motorola to be able to make money on hardware sales and failed so far. Samsung is desperately copying every aspect of the iPhone design. Everyone wants to be Apple, but no one else can. Apples goal in this game is to stay Apple, to remain what made them great.

Image

And that is to focus on very few product lines and bring them to perfection.​

Sure, why not, but how does this relate to coding layouts in iOS vs Android, and the fact that Android does it a heckuva lot better?

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Can Apple make a 5" iPhone that works as well one handed as the current models? We shall see.

What is this morbid fascination that people have with using a phone with one hand? Pretty much everything that actually involves using the phone (ie not answering or making a call) is much quicker, easier and efficient when done with both hands. It would be even better with a larger screen, my thumbs tend to collide a lot when typing on the iPhone...

 

[lobeyonekenobi]

It means no one can make a big profit in the german beer market. Anheuser-Busch sells more hectoliter of Bud than all german breweries combined. It's the equivalent to the PC market, with choice comes doom.
Seriously, I'm telling you that supporting more than one screen resolution per iDevice category is economic suicide. iPhones and iPads are worth a premium because every app is pixel-perfect. Apple itself brags in its keynotes about, how iPad apps are not just scaled up phone apps, like they are on Android. To achieve that, you have to do all the interface layout work twice.

With 80.300 employees Apple couldn't even finish updating its own iBooks app in time for the release of iOS7. It's not only to spare third-party developers unnecessary work, Apple itself will avoid adding a third resolution interface to all of its apps by all means. If not for creating a whole new device category, like an iOS based TV, they will always stick to two resolution of iOS apps.

And by doing less, they get at least the chance of doing everything great.

They are not stuck to one specific resolution, but one single resolution which can change over time.

Come on two or three types of phone and 50-60000 or whatever figure is slightly different, I'm not having a go at you I'm just saying there's a slight difference in 2-3 and 50-60000, I'm sure they could manage that.

Look at the iPad and the notebook line up imagine only offering the MBP and no MBA or vice versa, your only catering to one type of consumer and the rest go to the competition, it wouldn't be a mess like twenty years or so ago it's not too confusing to have one or two variants of a product.

 

[Gudi]

Sure, why not, but how does this relate to coding layouts in iOS vs Android, and the fact that Android does it a heckuva lot better?

Define "it" and what is so much "better" about it.
All I've seen from Android was so ugly, that I could never bring myself to use it.

Look at the iPad and the notebook line up imagine only offering the MBP and no MBA or vice versa, your only catering to one type of consumer and the rest go to the competition, it wouldn't be a mess like twenty years or so ago it's not too confusing to have one or two variants of a product.

Apple already has two variants of the iPhone, both with the same screen size.

 

[zipa]

Define "it" and what is so much "better" about it. All I've seen from Android was so ugly, that I could never bring myself to use it.

"It" being responsive layouts, "better" being you don't having to bother about about which version of the app to download and not having to maintain multiple copies of one app, since the app would automatically adapt to the available screen/window size.

 

[Gudi]

"It" being responsive layouts, "better" being you don't having to bother about which version of the app to download and not having to maintain multiple copies of one app, since the app would automatically adapt to the available screen/window size.

Automatic layout (scaled to arbitrary resolutions) never works nearly as good as hand-made layout (tailored to one specific resolution). With universal apps containing both UIs for iPhone and iPad, the user doesn't have to bother with different versions of an app and still gets the benefit of pixel-perfect layout every time.

 

[zipa]

Automatic layout (scaled to arbitrary resolutions) never works nearly as good as hand-made layout (tailored to one specific resolution).

Of course it works. It works just as well for the predefined resolution/size combos, with the added benefit of also working pretty much just as well for everything else, too. As can be witnessed by visiting any well designed responsive website and changing the size of the browser window.

 

[Gudi]

Of course it works. It works just as well for the predefined resolution/size combos, with the added benefit of also working pretty much just as well for everything else, too. As can be witnessed by visiting any well designed responsive website and changing the size of the browser window.

It doesn't work with this website on a 13" MBP. It has big white margins left and right, wasting more pixels on my screen than the iPhone has altogether. I can zoom it with ⌘+ or ⌘–, but that generates just another fixed zoom level which has nothing to do with my actual screen size. On iOS the developer has control over literally every single pixel, because he knows how many there are. Reducing choices makes the end result predictable. Automatic adaption only generates automated mistakes. Bad scaling apps are bad.

 

[zipa]

It doesn't work with this website on a 13" MBP.

That's because this website isn't responsive, but coded stubbornly with some set resolution in mind, same as iOS apps.

Amazon.com is a responsive website, it scales and lays out its contents according to your browser window size. Much like a properly done Android app would do.

 

[Kirb112]

"...but that they are working on "great things" and want to keep them secret because "you will be so much happier when you see it."

The condescending language / tone of Apple executives never ends - it must be part of Apple's indoctrination program with weekly reminder seminars.

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You're kidding right - a Tim Cook signed phone ... will it never end!

Maybe, maybe not. You never know what innovation someone will bring in their lifetime. Looking at anything Steve Jobs from back in the day that sells for a lot of money now; a couple hundred bucks may be well worth the investment. I know we are talking about Steve vs. Cook, but you never know what an individual will accomplish in their lifetime. Being that he runs one of the wealthiest, most prominent companies in the world, I think Cook has a good opportunity to create a legacy for himself.