Tim Cook Calls Apple's Tax Avoidance Accusations 'Total Political Crap'

[AFEPPL]

I'm not a conservative so my economics are based on sound fundamentals, not some sort of misplaced ideology that seems to afflict both sides of the aisle.

Completely... UKs tax system hasn't changed between red and blue so its a bogus argument...
The real issue is not the tax levels, it's the mess left behind by the criminal Blair and his monkeys that made it pay to be on benefits and not working..

OT - Apples stance is un-defendable and morally repugnant.
Imagine the uproar here if it was any other technology company.

 

[Snoopy4]

I don't what the magic number is. But I know there's enough money in personal and corporate income if it was taxed correctly. A 25% personal income tax on income and capital gains along with a 25% corporate tax with NO deductions would probably allow a zero income tax for workers below $50-75K.

No, no and no. Everyone must pay taxes. It is the only way that people understand that government has a cost. Flat tax across the board, period.

 

[AFEPPL]

I'd expect other "finds" to come to light as the EU investigates..

 

[1458279]

Well given you're claiming to be the greatest programmer the world has ever seen when its convenient to your position and before you were a business analyst who didn't know what offshoring meant, yes I'm calling ********.

Clearly you have closed your mind. I suggest you read a book on logic.

Do you not have the ability to understand that offshoring is a subset of outsourcing? Did you make a claim that private vs public pay difference was because of one yet you still haven't sited a source?

It's interesting that you keep bring that up without ever siting a source for that claim that was made. You want source from others yet never site a source yourself.

Do you not have the ability to understand that I actually do know what the terms mean, yet when I ask for evidence about a claim that one or both of these caused a pay difference between public and private sectors?

You use this to conclude what? That I've never programmed a computer and never been a business analyst? Really, this is the 'logic' that you use?

Do you not have the ability to determine if an answer is right or wrong without knowing who gave the answer?

It's cute that you want to sit at the adult table and throw food, but maybe you should go back to the kiddy table until you finish your logic book. Just in case you don't know, you can use the Internet for things other than trolling.

Can you quote the part where I claimed to be the greatest programmer the world has ever seen?

 

[1458279]

Clinton did well for the same reason Bush did for a while. They both had bubbles during their terms which drove up capital gains and income tax revenue. Unfortunately, Bush's (housing) bubble crashed in his 8th year while Clinton's (dotcom) bubble busted in Bush's first year (or what would have been Clinton's 9th year). Clinton really should be blamed for the dotcom bust and then his numbers don't look so good.

Bush did help cause the housing bubble with at least 2 things. 1. something about lower down payments passed in early 2000's 2. not seeing the bubble as it grew.
However, the roots of the housing bubble go back to at least the early 90's. Some say it even goes back to Carter and the 70's. There's actually a lot of hands in that cookie jar and it became a near perfect storm.

 

[jaymzuk]

Bush did help cause the housing bubble with at least 2 things. 1. something about lower down payments passed in early 2000's 2. not seeing the bubble as it grew.
However, the roots of the housing bubble go back to at least the early 90's. Some say it even goes back to Carter and the 70's. There's actually a lot of hands in that cookie jar and it became a near perfect storm.

The elephant in the room is the significant number of people that believe there should be as little government as possible (Whatever that actually means), whilst blaming politicians for failing to intervene on issues that would have sparked derision prior to the horse bolting.

Clinton or Bush intervening to prevent the crash would have been political suicide because outdated and ill-informed political ideologies are so prevalent in the US. The situation where proposing any kind of taxation increase or reform is taboo, where government is damned if they do and damned if they don't, and the electorate are quite happy to vote against affordable healthcare based on logical fallacies simply isn't sustainable. But it'll continue for as long as US politics remains the circus that it is

 

[Eraserhead]

Clearly you have closed your mind. I suggest you read a book on logic.

Do you not have the ability to understand that offshoring is a subset of outsourcing? Did you make a claim that private vs public pay difference was because of one yet you still haven't sited a source?

It's interesting that you keep bring that up without ever siting a source for that claim that was made. You want source from others yet never site a source yourself.

Do you not have the ability to understand that I actually do know what the terms mean, yet when I ask for evidence about a claim that one or both of these caused a pay difference between public and private sectors?

You use this to conclude what? That I've never programmed a computer and never been a business analyst? Really, this is the 'logic' that you use?

Do you not have the ability to determine if an answer is right or wrong without knowing who gave the answer?

It's cute that you want to sit at the adult table and throw food, but maybe you should go back to the kiddy table until you finish your logic book. Just in case you don't know, you can use the Internet for things other than trolling.

Can you quote the part where I claimed to be the greatest programmer the world has ever seen?

If you've invented something that will truly make programmers obsolete then you are the greatest coder ever.

Much more likely you invented something that lets business users configure a workflow in a relatively small domain.

 

[1458279]

Where are you getting your information? It's just full of talking points that are not true.

The ACA has slowed the rate of increase of healthcare costs. Repealing it would increase budget deficits and cost the Government money. The uninsured rate has fallen at historically dramatic rates. Not only that, but people now cannot be denied coverage due to a pre-existing condition and lifetime limits are no more.

It's not perfect. Far from it. Single payer would be better. But "it didn't do anything to improve the system"? Of course it has (and is).

Did you not read what was posted? The part where I said "One of the upsides of Obama's work is that we can see how the policies in the Middle East worked out"

With the passage of the ACA, we get to see how it will work out.
The upside is that after all the elements have taken hold, the people will see what happens.

Just as much as we can see that ISIS is in fact a 'JV team' ... We can see that ISIS is a contained JV team. We get to see just how it's going 1st hand. No more speculation.

When faced with a fork in the road, if you have two paths, you'll have at least 3 choices.
1. take the 1st path
2. take the 2nd path
3. argue endlessly about which path to take.

We've taken a path on ISIS and the middle east. Now we'll see just how great that path is.
We've taken a path on ACA and now we'll see once all the elements are in place just how great it is.

This important part of those 3 choices, is that with the 1st two, you at least get to find out what will happen.

As far as the ACA, it didn't reduce the cost of anything, it didn't increase the supply of medical care. As a system analyst, I was always taught to never 'computerize' a business. If you can't find a way to improve the system using systems analysis and design methods, then you've failed.

The great news is that we'll find out 1st hand. We'll see how much costs go down, we'll see how people like being forced to purchase something by their government.

Just like Berlin after WWII, they killed people for trying to leave, they built a famous wall and the government forced them to do as the government wanted them to do. This is awesome because all the world could finally see 1st hand how it worked out. It lasted for decades. I wonder if anyone even remembers Berlin and how well it worked out.

 

[Snoopy4]

The elephant in the room is the significant number of people that believe there should be as little government as possible (Whatever that actually means), whilst blaming politicians for failing to intervene on issues that would have sparked derision prior to the horse bolting.

Clinton or Bush intervening to prevent the crash would have been political suicide because outdated and ill-informed political ideologies are so prevalent in the US. The situation where proposing any kind of taxation increase or reform is taboo, where government is damned if they do and damned if they don't, and the electorate are quite happy to vote against affordable healthcare based on logical fallacies simply isn't sustainable. But it'll continue for as long as US politics remains the circus that it is

With the exception of a common defense and the actual operation of the government (courts, life safety, etc) any plans, programs, oversight or systems where government is involved needs a dedicated trust fund that ensures said system or program pays for itself. At no time shall funds from one trust fund be raided to pay for the shortcomings of another. That's what "little government" means. Instead we have a hodgepodge of global funding mixed with a few trust funds that get raided at every turn. Pay as you go works for Aviation, it used to work for highways (until it was raided for mass transit) and it's more than sufficient for every other government program out there. If you can't find a direct funding source for said program, well guess what? It's not necessary.

 

[bent christian]

Apple is paying €318m in back taxes to the Italian government.

 

[1458279]

I think America takes more credit than it should for that.

One of the problems with other places like France and Greece is that they work really hard at not working. They fight tooth and nail to protect their 30 hour work month and retire as soon as they can.

In America, there's a small percentage that actually like working and building things. They work hard and invent things. Part of that is because they can actually keep a bit of what they earn. If you look at world maps of economic freedom and study the impact of IP rights, you'll see why some nations are rich and some are poor.

You'll also see a very strong relationship to IQ. People in nations that don't value IQ have a low average IQ. It doesn't take a high IQ to pump out babies, collect welfare or take from producers. It takes a higher IQ to become a producer and keep producing against your competition.

It's always been interesting to me that so much of the world is trying to be like what America has become and yet most of the world hates America because it's so wrong.

 

[bent christian]

You'll also see a very strong relationship to IQ. People in nations that don't value IQ have a low average IQ. It doesn't take a high IQ to pump out babies, collect welfare or take from producers. It takes a higher IQ to become a producer and keep producing against your competition.

Ha, ha. I don't think you know what you are talking about.

USA is (unsurprisingly) not #1.

Not even close.

In fact, it appears to lag behind many countries with higher tax rates. USA looks to be on par with France (), slightly above Greece, and far below the economic powerhouse known as Mongolia.

 

[1458279]

If you've invented something that will truly make programmers obsolete then you are the greatest coder ever.

Much more likely you invented something that lets business users configure a workflow in a relatively small domain.

It looks like you haven't finished that logic book yet.

Here, let me help you out:
http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Critical-Thinking-Merrilee-Salmon/dp/1133049753

Click on the link and read the book, we'll wait here

We'll take good care of your straw man while your busy reading.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Come back when you know what a straw man argument is.

Still waiting on someone to provide proof about private vs public pay... Still waiting... Still waiting...

 

[bent christian]

Come back when you know what a straw man argument is.

Here is one:

You'll also see a very strong relationship to IQ. People in nations that don't value IQ have a low average IQ. It doesn't take a high IQ to pump out babies, collect welfare or take from producers. It takes a higher IQ to become a producer and keep producing against your competition.

 

[1458279]

Ha, ha. I don't think you know what you are talking about.

USA is (unsurprisingly) not #1.

Not even close.

In fact, it appears to lag behind many countries with higher tax rates. USA looks to be on par with France (), slightly above Greece, and far below the economic powerhouse known as Mongolia.

Thank you for making my point!
Not every American has the IQ to make things work, those numbers are an average. We mostly import people from low IQ nations and that drops down the average IQ.

In fact if we raised the average IQ in America, we'd be doing even better. The problem is that people with lower IQs don't know they have lower IQs. Add to that the fact that most people haven't developed their frontal lobe of their brain and have closed off all debate about anything that someone else doesn't agree with and there you have the problem.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/cong...l&utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=buffer3d966


As far as other nations, the Asian race has the highest average IQ and many Asian cultures value education very highly. That doesn't mean they'll have the ability to act on that. Some live in a very oppressive nation. In the US they OWN higher education and tech. They OWN STEM in the US. The only ones that can come close it the Whites. Too bad they don't make a higher percentage of the people we import into the US.

 

[1458279]

Here is one:

Sorry to burst your bubble but IQ is important in human development. Those that don't value IQ or knowledge will see your point, which makes my point.

What make you think IQ has little or no value? Do you think the innovators in America are the low IQ window lickers?

You see, part of the problem is that humans have to use their brain in order to understand how to use their brain. Those with a low IQ don't understand they have a low IQ.

Again, thanks for making my point!

 

[1458279]

Look at what America does with high IQ people. They make it harder to get into college by giving points to lower IQ people. The rabbits want everyone to be the same. The problem is that many Americans are just above mental retardation. This brings down the average IQ an that's why you have so many people that have little or no economic value.

These little or no economic value, generally low IQ people want to take from the producers under the name of fairness. The problem is that most of the world is barely above mental retardation and they are breeding like rabbits. They can't make their countries work, so they invade other countries and/or take from producers.

Too many takers, too few producers is going to crash the system.

Enjoy the ride, remember, you earned exactly what you'll be getting. Close your mind and keep telling yourself you're right. Call anyone that has a different view Hitler.

BTW, aren't we about due for someone to toss out the Hitler card? It's been a few hundred posts since the last Hitler card was tossed out.

 

[bent christian]

Thank you for making my point!

It actually does the opposite.

The only ones that can come close it the Whites. Too bad they don't make a higher percentage of the people we import into the US.

Oh, WOW. Very illuminating. I see where you are coming from now.

 

[1458279]

If you've invented something that will truly make programmers obsolete then you are the greatest coder ever.

Much more likely you invented something that lets business users configure a workflow in a relatively small domain.

You make the assumption that inventing something concerning programming make someone would make them the greatest coder ever?
Writing software is different from knowing what to write. A systems analyst figures out what the system should do, the programmer writes the code that does what the analyst wanted done.

Using your 'logic', this would mean you don't have basic knowledge about how computers work.

Again, it's cute that you want to sit at the adult table and throw food, but that's not what adults do.

 

[1458279]

It actually does the opposite.



Oh, WOW. Very illuminating. I see where you are coming from now.

Bingo! There we have it folks, right on time! Who called it !!!

The 'ol Hitler card. This time we get the bonus of a violent shame inducing graphic.

It looks like we have another IQ denier with a stack of Hitler cards.

What's next, the shame card, people of higher IQs should be ashamed of their IQ because it's not fair?

Maybe we should have an IQ tax?

How about taking IQ from some and giving it to another?

 

[1458279]

I wish there was a way to tell how many of you actually read the link I posted about logic.

Test: someone post a list of the logical fallacies.

 

[Dmunjal]

Bush did help cause the housing bubble with at least 2 things. 1. something about lower down payments passed in early 2000's 2. not seeing the bubble as it grew.
However, the roots of the housing bubble go back to at least the early 90's. Some say it even goes back to Carter and the 70's. There's actually a lot of hands in that cookie jar and it became a near perfect storm.

Bush had very little to do with it. It was the Federal Reserve and its low interest rate policy following the dot com bust. We're repeating the same thing now with the current bubble after the housing bubble burst.

The fact is that there are not two parties in the US. There is only the war party and the banking party.

 

[1458279]

Bush had very little to do with it. It was the Federal Reserve and it's low interest rate policy following the dot com bust. We're repeating the same thing now with the current bubble.

The fact is that there are not parties in the US. There is only the war party and the banking party.

What's worse is that low information voters just look at who was in office at the time. They see Bill Clinton and look at the number and vote Dem.
Fact is that Bill Clinton had little to do with the DotCom economy, yet he takes credit for it. He usually ignores the DotCom crash that also happened on his clock.

There's a book called "the black swan" that talks about the investment economy and covers part of this.

We've moved very far from the "let's invest in a local lumber mill to help our local town" to "let's turn wall street into a casino and start day trading"

I remember when the Fed's Greenspan talked about average people needing to get into the stock market and he lowered the margin rates.

China did the same thing after the 08 bust, they had regular people turn their stock market into a casino, look what happened last summer, some $5 trillion was lost in a few weeks.

Yet most blame Bush.

We teach and test people for driving skills, yet we don't teach them about how the economy works and it's one of our most important issues.

 

[Jambalaya]

I'd rather keep my money and donate as I wish. All those complaining here...how much of your income do you give away? You go out of your way to pay the most tax possible?

Yes but people don't donate though do they ? Top rate of personal tax here in UK is 47%, Apple should be paying 18% UK corproate tax on their UK profits which is actaully one of the lowest corproate tax rates in the world but they still dodge that.

Topical today as they've paid $300m approx in settlement to the Italians for dodging taxes.

 

[Dmunjal]

Yes but people don't donate though do they ? Top rate of personal tax here in UK is 47%, Apple should be paying 18% UK corproate tax on their UK profits which is actaully one of the lowest corproate tax rates in the world but they still dodge that.

Topical today as they've paid $300m approx in settlement to the Italians for dodging taxes.

After that 60 Minutes piece, I think governments are really going to go after Apple next year. They have to set an example for the rest of them!