Tim Cook Calls 'Religious Freedom' Legislation 'Very Dangerous'

[i.mac]

Florist...

To a black man: go away, you're black, and in my religion that's to be gay.

To a Latino man: go away, you're latino, and in my religion that's to be gay.

To an Asian man: go away, your Asian, and in my religion that's to be gay.

To a Polinisian man: go away, you're... different, and in my religion that's to be gay.

...

Fox News interview to florist: you're a good example of an American patriot. Sure glad that our young go to fight and die for your business and life choices.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I definitely understand your pessimism regarding this court, and usually they're unpredictable, but they've been pretty consistently pro-gay. As for the ACA, I'm guessing it's gonna be a win on that as well. The right got their way on hobby lobby last year, it's our turn this year!

Looking at some of their decisions, I think we are headed to a very dark place...

In a theocratic society, you are either 'of the body' or you aren't. If you aren't, you are stoned, beaten, locked up, or discriminated against.

If these laws aren't stopped, we are headed for a theocratic society, and whatever 'god' is chosen to represent it will demand extreme devotion and adherence to 'it's' laws as handed down by men...

Just like the Taliban...

 

[NT1440]

Keep it in the church or mosque people. Other people dont' care about your sky daddy.

That made me chuckle.

The notion that religions aren't free in the USA is kind of absurd. We can't even keep the religious institutions from practicing politics because it's a death sentence for any politician that brings it up.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

....

Markets never desegregated lunch counters. Markets don't stop human rights abuses. Markets don't even factor in social issues, they are "externalities".

Markets don't insure the wages people are paid are at a level they can survive on either.

The 'free market' is a psychopathic monster consuming everything within its grasp.

 

[zin]

Now, when it comes to photographers, bakers, florists, etc., at gay weddings, the law may protect them. But do we really want to be forcing people to support something they find wrong? If I go into a gay person's T-shirt shop and ask for 2,000 T-shirts saying "Homosexuality Is a Sin," do we want to force the shop owner to make those T-shirts? If I went to a photographer who refused to photograph my wedding because (in her eyes) my wedding would be a cult ritual, I would prefer to know that rather than have her forced to photograph a wedding she objects to, and therefore do a worse job because of it.

Nobody is being forced to do anything.

Your examples of the offensive t-shirt and the cult ritual photography are vastly different. For starters, in the t-shirt case you'd be refusing service because of the offensive message and not because of the person buying the shirts. You can refuse service to anybody provided it is not because you are discriminating against a particular class of people. When we say "class" of people, we're talking about characteristics that make a person who they are.

Here's another example, which is much more in tune with the issues this legislation causes. A gay couple enter a wedding cake store. They select a cake design from the store catalogue and tell the owner that they want this baked for a certain time. The owner refuses service because the customers are gay.

Here's another: a straight couple enter a wedding cake store. The man is black and the woman is white. They select a design from the store catalogue and tell the owner that they want it baked for a certain day. The owner refuses service because the customers are mixed race and the owner doesn't support mixed race marriages.

Ignore legal differences between states on protected classes for a second. What is the difference between the two situations?

 

[caesarp]

Looking at some of their decisions, I think we are headed to a very dark place...

In a theocratic society, you are either 'of the body' or you aren't. If you aren't, you are stoned, beaten, locked up, or discriminated against.

If these laws aren't stopped, we are headed for a theocratic society, and whatever 'god' is chosen to represent it will demand extreme devotion and adherence to 'it's' laws as handed down by men...

Just like the Taliban...

I want an atheist freedom law. Where we don't have to see xmas celebrated in every public building or prayers at town councils or a senate chaplain. Remove in god we trust from money. Take god out of the pledge of allegiance (why even have a pledge of allegiance, that's weird too).

I want to be able to NOT serve anyone who believes in an imaginary being that created everything and controls us.

 

[NT1440]

Markets don't insure the wages people are paid are at a level they can survive on either.

The 'free market' is a psychopathic monster consuming everything within its grasp.

Its THE religion of the 21st century. Unquestioned by the masses, whom place their faith (and well being) in the "invisible hand" to take care of their basic needs whilst ignoring that hand is flicking them off.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

So what's the difference? A shop owner is forced to serve a black man but its alright for them to refuse a devote Christian? What is the difference? Their is NONE, it is discrimination plain and simple and backward American states have made it law. Don't try to sugar coat it. I don't need a soap box either, because I think America is the only country with these 'laws'.

This is very dangerous grounds these states are treading on.

I'm dam glad I don't live in America with these attitudes.

I'm dam glad I DO live in America instead of one of the (middle-eastern) countries with NO religious freedoms. It's such a great life over there.

 

[caesarp]

That made me chuckle.

The notion that religions aren't free in the USA is kind of absurd. We can't even keep the religious institutions from practicing politics because it's a death sentence for any politician that brings it up.

Not to mention the tax exemptions all the "religious" organizations get. All that prime land those churches sit on -- and no property taxes? How bogus is that.

 

[MacOG728893]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I'm not a fan of cook being so open about his personal feelings. I understand the issues is controversial, but I do not think that it's a company's purpose to always have to be the one to be so politically correct.

 

[iBlazed]

Looking at some of their decisions, I think we are headed to a very dark place...

In a theocratic society, you are either 'of the body' or you aren't. If you aren't, you are stoned, beaten, locked up, or discriminated against.

If these laws aren't stopped, we are headed for a theocratic society, and whatever 'god' is chosen to represent it will demand extreme devotion and adherence to 'it's' laws as handed down by men...

Just like the Taliban...

The Christian right in this country many times does behave like the Taliban they they claim to hate so much. They're testing the waters with these RFRA bills to see how much society will let them get away with. I'm thankful that the blowback to this law has been so intense. For the most part, these laws are the last dying breath of an outdated mindset that's dying off.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I want an atheist freedom law. Where we don't have to see xmas celebrated in every public building or prayers at town councils or a senate chaplain. Remove in god we trust from money. Take god out of the pledge of allegiance (why even have a pledge of allegiance, that's weird too).

I want to be able to NOT serve anyone who believes in an imaginary being that created everything and controls us.

My, that's a really constructive way to help the situation.

That's like the rise of the American Taliban in response to the Middle East Taliban.

 

[caesarp]

The Christian right in this country many times does behave like the Taliban they they claim to hate so much. They're testing the waters with these RFRA bills to see how much society will let them get away with. I'm thankful that the blowback to this law has been so intense. For the most part, these laws are the last dying breath of an outdated mindset that's dying off.

Next we need to remove the property tax exemption for religious (err scam) organizations.

 

[NT1440]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I'm not a fan of cook being so open about his personal feelings. I understand the issues is controversial, but I do not think that it's a company's purpose to always have to be the one to be so politically correct.

There is a difference between "politically correct" and actively being against discrimination.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Its THE religion of the 21st century. Unquestioned by the masses, whom place their faith (and well being) in the "invisible hand" to take care of their basic needs whilst ignoring that hand is flicking them off.

If you are saying that Capitalism is the real religion in this country, I'll wholeheartedly agree.

We have a disease in this country, and it is runaway capitalism. A devotion to 'free markets' is just an analogy... Even 'religious' people worship money. It seem sto be why so many of them get into the business.

 

[caesarp]

My, that's a really constructive way to help the situation.

That's like the rise of the American Taliban in response to the Middle East Taliban.

Its meant to show you how ridiculous the religious folks are. Why do they want to expand everywhere? Money, hotel room bibles (really?), pledge of allegiance, abortion laws, "religious freedom" laws, Xmas decorations every freekin where. If they just practiced their religion in their church and home and left the rest of us alone, we wouldn't have these issues. If you don't like gays, don't marry one. If you don't like abortions, don't have one. But don't take that further to the public sphere, where we don't need the crutch of imaginary sky daddies or bronze age myths to have a life.

The point is, NO ONE IS UNABLE TO PRACTICE THEIR RELIGION IN THIS COUNTRY. So these laws are not needed and are bogus.

 

[5aga]

The Christian right in this country many times does behave like the Taliban they they claim to hate so much. They're testing the waters with these RFRA bills to see how much society will let them get away with. I'm thankful that the blowback to this law has been so intense. For the most part, these laws are the last dying breath of an outdated mindset that's dying off.

I agree with this 100%. You know they're desperate when they are clinging to these pathetic discriminatory laws. Hopefully this fully backfires on all of them.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

How long have businesses had the right to post the signs that read "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"? It's been around forever. "No shirt, no shoes, no come in"? So homeless people are discriminated, or even myself, who, on a warm sunny day, choose to go shirtless or barefoot, and just wants to buy a meal?

As so many have said here, what's the difference?

 

[33scottie33]

"Around the world, we strive to treat every customer the same — regardless of where they come from, how they worship or who they love." - Tim Cook

So would he sell 5,000 Apple Watches directly to ISIS?

 

[NT1440]

If you are saying that Capitalism is the real religion in this country, I'll wholeheartedly agree.

We have a disease in this country, and it is runaway capitalism. A devotion to 'free markets' is just an analogy... Even 'religious' people worship money. It seem sto be why so many of them get into the business.

It's an unquestioned dogma, which to me is essentially religion, so yes that is what I was claiming.

I think it's amazing that in the public mind it is far easier to imagine end of the world scenarios (war, disease, zombie apocalypse) than it is to imagine a world not run by markets.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

And with this, I'm done.

But, by all means please be sure to beat each other up as much as you can, because we all know how powerful that has been in the past...

And it's 11 days until the Apple Watch pre-orders happen? Can't wait...

 

[NT1440]

"Around the world, we strive to treat every customer the same — regardless of where they come from, how they worship or who they love." - Tim Cook

So would he sell 5,000 Apple Watches directly to ISIS?

I'm sure ISIS is just clamoring for consumer fashion devices...

 

[fenderbass146]

i don't think the idea is to force anybody to do anything. In all reality, a gay couple won't want nor hire a bigot christian to film their wedding against her/his will.
it's more about encouraging that bigot to re-examine / put aside their beliefs and see the greater good in treating others- all others- with the respect they deserve..

meanwhile, the gay couple will be photographed by some other christian photographer who doesn't share the internal effedupness of the first one.. it's not as if the christian photog is going to burn in hell for taking pictures of a gay couple.. this is such a stupid notion and surely (hopefully.. pretty please?) our laws can see past such.

Right, why would a same-sex couple hire a photographer who disagrees with there lifestyle, why would they want that? However there have been multiple lawsuits were such situations have come up. One such was a baker wanting to not bake a cake for a same-sex couple and the couple tried to bring a lawsuit to the baker. Now this does vary between Christians. I am one, but personally believe that it is our job to love everyone including the LGBT community, that doesn't mean we have to agree with there lifestyle. Jesus hung out with prostitutes and thieves yet still loved them, however I don't know if he would have helped support their lifestyle by helping in their wedding. I honestly could be wrong it is a very tricky subject. I am not trying to start a war, but just because a Christian doesn't want to photograph a gay wedding, doesn't mean he is a bigot.

 

[oneMadRssn]

How do you know that being a jerk is not innate? (Trust me, some really seem innate jerks with no hope!)
Being back to the more serious topic, freedom of speech is PROTECTED, therefore the speech of a jerk, priest, gay, anti-gay, white, black, red, green or yellow individual is protected. By your own reasoning, I would be unable to protect myself and my business from jerks.

First, some people are really really really huge jerks, but none of them were born that way - they were taught it, or they weren't taught to be good people. Either way, it's not at all the same as being black, gay, or a wasp. Those are things you are truly born into, or in the case of handicapped, something that was not of your choosing.

It's like the difference between a tattoo and a birthmark. A tattoo was a choice someone made, a birthmark someone is born with and never had a say in it. One can be judged by their tattoo, one cannot be judged by their birthmark.

Second, no, freedom of speech is totally irrelevant here. To quote a good explanation of it, "The right to free speech means the government can't arrest you for what you say. It doesn't mean anyone else has to listen to your ********, or host you while you share it."

 

[0007776]

i don't think the idea is to force anybody to do anything. In all reality, a gay couple won't want nor hire a bigot christian to film their wedding against her/his will.

That has already happened and the photographer was sued and lost. Which is a big reason why these kinds of bills are needed. Admittedly I think you are right for the most part, but there is a very small minority of vindictive people out there who will search out people they know will turn them down just so they can sue them, and the law protects people from that kind of abuse of the other laws out there.