I don’t think anyone should have guns.
But if you’ve got laws that allow people to legally carry guns then the laws around carrying said guns should be applied equally.
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But if you’ve got laws that allow people to legally carry guns then the laws around carrying said guns should be applied equally.
ClaraStahlbaum
macrumors 6502a
Then why argue for why people should have them? You've made it clear you don't want people to have guns, that's all there is to it. You don't want people to have guns.
Correct, I don’t think people should have guns.
But laws should be applied equally to all.
ClaraStahlbaum
macrumors 6502a
I'm not sure what there else is for me to say further, other than that I 100% disagree with you on "I don't think people should have guns".
I presume that means you agree that laws should be applied equally, which is the prescient point.
bgillander
macrumors 65816
By those rules of engagement, there would have been thousands of January 6th protestors shot.
ClaraStahlbaum
macrumors 6502a
The leftist obsession with January 6th is truly astounding.
Carry guns, yes. Be stupid while carrying a gun, no.
bgillander
macrumors 65816
That is a depressing comment if you have actually watched the footage of Pretti being held down and shot. And an even more depressing comment if you haven't.
ClaraStahlbaum
macrumors 6502a
If Pretti was a Trump supporter with a MAGA hat and the exact same circumstance happened, would you still have the same opinion about it? Would the left still have protested against ICE? I would wager not.
duffman9000
macrumors 68020
BaldiMac
macrumors G3
Can’t speak for the other poster, but I’m against assaulting someone who is helping a person that’s been pepper sprayed. And I’m against shooting a person that’s been disarmed and restrained. I don’t care what their politics are.
ClaraStahlbaum
macrumors 6502a
That is a reasonable opinion to have, however, I imagine that those protesting ICE would probably cheer for it, if it was MAGA people being shown the brunt of law enforcement. However, Alex Pretti was seen in other videos kicking off a tail-light of a Police Vehicle.
When it comes to Pretti and Good as in reality, their deaths were unfortunate. Perhaps they shouldn't have been killed in hindsight, however, put yourselves in the shoes of an officer who is on the job with a high stress environment and someone comes at you, and you legitimately think your life is in danger. What are you going to do? You would defend yourself. I am sure the officers involved feel horrible about what happened after the fact, knowing they killed someone. It's not something to cheer for. I certainly didn't cheer for it when I saw what happened, but I understand why it happened. I agree that there should be some form of investigation, and if it is found that wrongdoing occurred, the individual officers should be fired/let go, but as of right now my opinion was that they were in the right for doing what they did. That doesn't make it a good thing that happened though.
When it comes to people who attack law enforcement, I don't care what their politics are. They are breaking the law and need to be dealt with.
BaldiMac
macrumors G3
I have no doubt you’d imagine that because that kind of black and white thinking is your whole shtick.
Which has nothing to do with the shooting. If anything it’s yet another example of ICE’s lawless behavior where they beat him, reportedly broke his rib, and then drove off. I’d have no complaint if they called the police or arrested him themselves for breaking the taillight.
You’re begging the question by assuming the there was legitimate reason to feel a threat to life.
If I’m standing in front of a car (against policy and common sense) that starts moving, I would jump out of the way. I wouldn’t shoot the driver.
If a man tried to help a woman that’s been pepper sprayed, I would let him.
ClaraStahlbaum
macrumors 6502a
Seeing as you aren't understanding the point that I am making, I am just going to say that it is best that we agree to disagree. There isn't an honest conversation being had here, especially when you are saying "Black and White thinking is your whole shtick".
It’s always something
macrumors 6502a
Yes, it’s very “unfortunate” that after four or five thugs beat Pretti into submission, subdued and disarmed him, they shot him ten times in the back while he was on his hands and knees. And then refused to allow an EMT bystander to perform CPR! And all because he had the audacity to assist a woman that the thugs had knocked to the ground! Such misfortune! 🙄
BaldiMac
macrumors G3
I understand the point, I just think your whole framing is misleading.
I’m just describing your arguments. You talk about the left and right as stereotypes that fit your conclusions. You label whole groups by the actions of a few of them.
When a person becomes irrational, they do irrational things. This one is lucky he’s not sitting in a jail cell right now when he probably should be:
You don’t go into a protest packing then start kicking law enforcement vehicles and engage with officers as Peretti did. We’re not at war. You don’t go shooting at people like some kind of vigilante. You’re not law enforcement. That’s simply not rational behavior. It’s pretty disturbing.
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BaldiMac
macrumors G3
Except he didn't go shooting at people. He didn't engage with officers. He was a nurse that attempted to help a woman who had been pepper sprayed. And the kicking of the vehicle was 11 days earlier.
bgillander
macrumors 65816
Very much so. You will notice I didn't say the January 6th protesters should have been shot.
Authoritarianism is the issue, not the side that is imposing it.
bgillander
macrumors 65816
And there is the problem for someone that claims to be above the fray.
bgillander
macrumors 65816
Also please note that there are multiple videos of ICE agents doing drive-by pepper spraying of protestors just standing around, an act which would normally qualify as battery, versus a property crime such kicking a tail-light.
I can't condone any criminal act, but if you really feel like trying to justify responses, perhaps you should take all actions into account.
bgillander
macrumors 65816
Thank you for at least acknowledging Rittenhouse.
That said, comparing someone who shot 3 people and killed 2 (and isn't in jail, since the judge even threw out the "possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18" charge) to a person with a concealed carry permit who at some earlier date kicked a law enforcement vehicle and then at a later date was repeatedly shot while being held face down on the ground (as another member of ICE was in possession of his gun) simply makes Pretti's killing seem like an even larger travesty of justice.
Anyone with a concealed carry permit should be concerned by this incident, as it is a dangerous precident for a government official to claim such action is justified when there is actual video with obvious evidence to the contrary, and if they are willing to claim this while the public has such video available, it should worry anyone with a concealed carry permit what the risk is now, even when there is video being recorded, let alone when there is not. I'm not exactly a huge proponent of the Second Amendment, but it is hard to believe how little pushback this seems to be getting, as this incident seems far more within the actual spirit of the 2nd than most of the stuff the NRA does contest.
I was talking about he and Rittenhouse in terms of people being irrational and their vigilante behavior.
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