Tim Cook Holds 'Constructive' Talks With EU Over Siri AI Launch

[Abazigal]

What this shows is that Tim Cook will likely continue to play an influential role in politics even after John Ternus takes over as CEO. People hoping for some shift in policy regarding their more controversial stances (eg: App Store, China, EU, Epic, Trump) will be disappointed.

 

[marte91]

Terms and conditions are always subject to change. Doesn't matter if it's the rules at Arby's or Apple or Antwerp.

The difference is: If apple changes the rules, you are not forced to use their software / hardware, if the EU changes the rules you have no choice but to submit.

 

[BaldiMac]

The idea that all these giant corporations are supposed to be allowed to do whatever they want with your data without allowing you to choose an alternative way to process that data is ridiculous to me.

Seems like someone who believes that should value a company that fights to keep your data on your device where no one has access to it but the user.

 

[surferfb]

So they make the view where you change the underlying implementation very clear about what the user is giving access to, then it’ll be up to the user if they want to opt out of their own privacy, it’s their device and their data after all.

The idea that all these giant corporations are supposed to be allowed to do whatever they want with your data without allowing you to choose an alternative way to process that data is ridiculous to me.

Governments need to do more to stop predatory business practices like these imo. Not just in cases like this but everywhere.

Might sound strange but I don’t think my local grocery store should be allowed to sell their own wares either, because if you operate the marketplace you are inherently biased against competition.

That’s an extreme case sure, but that basic principle applies here too. With software a hardline stance like that is obviously a bit problematic, OS developers should of course be allowed to build nice first party features, but when they sell a general purpose device they have to allow 3rd parties the same access, otherwise they are competing unfairly.

So I have no problem with Apple building hooks in the OS for an AI to access all of the data (should I choose to provide it), but I have a problem with them doing that and then saying I can’t then decide who gets to access it.

I won’t give my data to any of the companies you mentioned, I value my privacy, but I might want to give it to e.g. Proton in the future, if that simplifies my life in any way, why shouldn’t I be allowed to do that?

If you don’t like Apple’s stance on that, then no one is forcing you to buy an Apple product. That’s the free market at work. Apple has always been this way. “We’re not going to permit random companies have access to our users’ most personal data” is exactly the sort of edict Steve would have laid down. This is not some sort of new thing where you’ve been baited and switched. It’s been Apple’s ethos for like 40
years.

Also ironically, there’s a strong argument to be made that laws like the DMA will in fact, strengthen Apple’s position. What causes behemoths to lose is getting disrupted. There’s a real universe where Apple’s stance on AI comes back to bite them, and people start going to the competition where they can use the amazing new AI that is not possible on iPhone because of Apple’s locked down nature. But in the universe where Apple is forced to allow that AI same access as Siri; well then Apple can’t make the mistake of not allowing the new AI and therefore keeps their position as smartphone leader.

Is that scenario guaranteed? Of course not. But I’d argue it’s much more likely than the scenario where the DMA leads to more competition in the phone market. But it’s the sort of thing I’m thinking of when I say things like the EU is incapable of thinking through the second and third order consequences of their regulations.

 

[koil]

Seems like someone who believes that should value a company that fights to keep your data on your device where no one has access to it but the user.

And Apple, but yeah, I do, but I also value freedom to use the device I own in the way I want.

 

[twinlight]

Every country and every company trying to get into Apples system under the guise that everything should be open and that it would be good for customers.

I´m not so sure about that but I am sure that Apple never want to get into others systems.

 

[JustSomebody12]

EU folks love their EU regulations...and good for them. If they feel that every company is entitled to the same advantages as the company who actually created the platform, they are welcomed to think that way. However, why would Apple take any risks going forward? If there is even a hint of an issue, just strip it out...or risk a $300M fine after the fact.

It's not that I have anything against EU regulations. It's the fact that they slap on these huge fines. If they win the battle, fine...going forward it has to be a certain way. What's with the big fines? Where does this money even go? American tech companies doing business in the EU are just cash cows for them.

What a strange speech just to say that if a company violates the rules of the Nation they operate in, they shall be fined.

But I get that it is no longer the principle America is being run under

 

[Paul1964]

If they don't like the EU's terms they can always just leave. They knew what they were getting into.

In the UK, we did leave.

 

[one more]

If they don't like the EU's terms they can always just leave. They knew what they were getting into.

Apple leave the EU market? They have 27% of their sales in Europe, so probably about 20%+ in the EU. It’s a lot of money Apple would like to keep, especially now, when the AI craze will be causing prices to climb up across the sector, most probably resulting in less frequent upgrades of Apple’s hardware.

I am hopeful the EC and Apple will find a way to sort it out soon, as so far both sides are set to lose from this standoff. Those EC commissioners and their friends and family also use iPhones and iPads, you know.

 

[nexusrule]

EU folks love their EU regulations...and good for them. If they feel that every company is entitled to the same advantages as the company who actually created the platform, they are welcomed to think that way. However, why would Apple take any risks going forward? If there is even a hint of an issue, just strip it out...or risk a $300M fine after the fact.

It's not that I have anything against EU regulations. It's the fact that they slap on these huge fines. If they win the battle, fine...going forward it has to be a certain way. What's with the big fines? Where does this money even go? American tech companies doing business in the EU are just cash cows for them.

You think you can persuade for profit companies to oblige to the law without “huge fines”? Doesn’t really look like it is true if one looks at Meta, Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc. behavior. How many times they have received small-for-them fines from US institutions and just paid them as it was “cost of business” to proceed with breaking other laws the next time it helped them? It has basically become their business strategy. Also, by this logic, if huge companies shouldn’t received huge fines I guess you agree that regular people shouldn’t be punished accordingly to the severity of their crimes? If someone breaks the law (stealing, pushing drugs, etc.) because is it indigent it is okay that they are imprisoned for 20 years but companies that are evaluated in the trillions shouldn’t be fined for a few hundreds millions of dollars?

 

[nexusrule]

I suspect that they have already designed it that way. Too close to release to do a major redesign like that.

We just haven’t seen it because the EU rejected the proposal outright. If they agreed then Apple could flip the switch and I suspect beta testers in the EU would have that option.

The EU seems to want these 3rd party agents to have unrestricted access.

No, they asked the EU to release Siri AI as it is (closed) and then open it in the next 18 months. Basically they asked for an 18 months competitive advantage in response to a request tied to a law that is there to ensure fair competition.

 

[surferfb]

Apple leave the EU market? They have 27% of their sales in Europe, so probably about 20%+ in the EU.

Its much lower than 20%. Apple's "Europe" market segment includes the EU, all non-EU European countries (UK, Switzerland, Norway, etc.), all of the Middle East, all of Africa, and India. Both the UK and India are responsible for more sales than any single EU country.

I've seen estimates anywhere from 7-15% of global revenue for the EU specifically, but Apple has never broken it out, other to say that EU makes up 7% of App Store revenue; I'll leave it for others to determine for themselves whether they think that is relevant for estimating the percentage of total revenue the EU represents, but it seems reasonable to me.

That’s obviously a significant chunk, so it’s not like Apple’s going to pull out of the EU, but EU isn’t as big of a chunk as you might think looking at Apple’s “Europe” market segment.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Apple leave the EU market? They have 27% of their sales in Europe, so probably about 20%+ in the EU. It’s a lot of money Apple would like to keep

Then they should play by the rules. Otherwise, leave.

To borrow from others in this thread - if they don't like the EU's stance, nobody's forcing them to do business there.

 

[one more]

Then they should play by the rules. Otherwise, leave.

To borrow from others in this thread - if they don't like the EU's stance, nobody's forcing them to do business there.

This would be a reaction based on a very binary “Yes/No” response. It would be akin to leaving one’s partner or friend every time you have a disagreement on a particular issue. They will figure it out, eventually, so both sides will feel somewhat satisfied.

I also believe this will happen much sooner than how it was with the initial Apple Intelligence rollout, considering Siri AI was the main focus of the WWDC26 and the very fact that “constructive negotiations” made it to the mainstream news, thus putting more spotlight on both Apple and the EC.

 

[I7guy]

Then they should play by the rules. Otherwise, leave.

To borrow from others in this thread - if they don't like the EU's stance, nobody's forcing them to do business there.

Exactly. The school of thought that enterprise is a free choice, exercise your freedoms.

 

[BaldiMac]

And Apple, but yeah, I do, but I also value freedom to use the device I own in the way I want.

No, not Apple. That’s my point. Again, the data stays on my device.

 

[I7guy]

And Apple, but yeah, I do, but I also value freedom to use the device I own in the way I want.

Nobody is stopping anybody from using anything they buy anyway they want. I want to run macOS on my tv, but the manufacturer is preventing me from doing so. EU needs to step up its game.

 

[djphat2000]

Yeah, no. Here's how this plays out.

Apple: Here's a new feature we are thinking about doing.

EU: Here's our DMA.

Apple: It's super vague on AI. Can you tell us if this idea could possibly be compliant or not?

EU: No. You have to commit resources to building the entire thing, implement it, then submit the finished thing to us for us to let you know if the idea was ever going to be compliant from the start. Also, you have to let everyone else ride on your work for free or close to it. And if we don't like it, we'll fine you.

Apple: What if we build a framework so that only people we both agree are trustworthy have access to some things so that it doesn't compromise our entire company's product line?

EU: Nope. You have to commit to building that out too and then maybe we'll say it's okay after you've invested a fortune. And then when we reject it anyway, you need to open things up so that everyone and their mother can do anything they want on the phones you make, and you are also responsible for cleaning up the mess that people cause on them even with software that has nothing to do with you. If you don't, we'll fine you. And since we use WhatsApp here, we also demand you let these random people directly message anyone on your messaging system, even though it's scammy, or we'll fine you for that too. We can't figure out why you don't want to be as broke as Siemens.

Apple: Okay. Well, since that's insane, and now we see why none of the top 25 firms on earth are in the EU anymore, we just won't release it there. Thanks anyway.

EU: HURRY! TELL THE WHOLE WORLD THAT APPLE IS REFUSING TO GIVE US THINGS AND ARE EVIL! WE MUST FINE THEM AGAIN!

I want to love and laugh at this, but it only let me do one!

 

[Parowdy]

The EU ought to be abolished, as it merely restricts technological progress. Moreover, some of its absurd measures stand out—particularly the infuriating cookie pop-ups appearing on nearly every website.

The EU has to abolished as a whole?
Damn. You sound very confident for making no sense.

 

[Paul1964]

The EU has to abolished as a whole?
Damn. You sound very confident for making no sense.

They need to back off a little with the over-regulation and meddling in member countries affairs.

That’s why we in the UK got out. Some of the consequences have not been great, some are own making and some because the EU punished us by putting up barriers to trade.

Still, I think we’re better off being able to manage our own affairs without interfering commissioners trying to screw us over.

 

[Paul1964]

If you knew what you talked about you'd know the Commission is an elite institution made up not of technocrats but of technicians who actually know their stuff.

You’re joking right? Right?

 

[ThomasJL]

The EU ought to be abolished, as it merely restricts technological progress. Moreover, some of its absurd measures stand out—particularly the infuriating cookie pop-ups appearing on nearly every website.

[sarcasm]
I agree. The EU should have Silicon Valley billionaires running their governments by buying and paying for their politicians, just like they did in the USA. Shame on the Nordic countries for providing universal health care, free university education, and affordable efficient public transportation! Those Nordic countries should cancel all of those programs and give all of that money to Silicon Valley billionaires like Tim Cook and Elon Musk and their corporations.
[/sarcasm]

 

[I7guy]

[sarcasm]
I agree. The EU should have Silicon Valley billionaires running their governments by buying and paying for their politicians, just like they did in the USA. Shame on the Nordic countries for providing universal health care, free university education, and affordable efficient public transportation! Those Nordic countries should cancel all of those programs and give all of that money to Silicon Valley billionaires like Tim Cook and Elon Musk and their corporations.
[/sarcasm]

You mentioned Norway. A country at the forefront of EV adoption. The same country that feeds trillionaire Musk metaphorically, through their purchase of Teslas. So there is that.

 

[Parowdy]

They need to back off a little with the over-regulation and meddling in member countries affairs.

That’s why we in the UK got out. Some of the consequences have not been great, some are own making and some because the EU punished us by putting up barriers to trade.

Still, I think we’re better off being able to manage our own affairs without interfering commissioners trying to screw us over.

The UK benefited more from the EU than the EU benefited from the UK.
Your referendum was flawed, people didn’t know what they were voting for. That’s a common fact. That’s why you got out, not because you’re a nation of economists and inventors (anymore) that knew better. You as a society got dragged into a political game brought upon by the elites that were just as capable as the current US administration.
The few “liberties” you gained don’t compare to the damage that those people did to your country and economy. No need to defend or hail the Brexit.
Hope Siri AI is treating you well at least.

 

[MilaM]

That’s why we in the UK got out. Some of the consequences have not been great, some are own making and some because the EU punished us by putting up barriers to trade.

You're out of the EU, but you still manage to blame it for your misfortunes. Must be hard to shake off those old habits.

I would really like to know how you think the EU punished the UK. As far as I know you got everything that Brexit promised. No free movement of persons, complete control of your borders, and as a cherry on top a zero tariff agreement for goods that was negotiated in record time.