Tim Cook: iPod is a 'Declining Business'

[milo]

what they need to do to re-invigorate that sector is introduce a flash based classic with 96/24 high definition support

Over and over, this is a niche group asking for something they want, not something that would actually increase sales in a noticeable way.

It reminds me of Steve Jobs old quote. To rephrase it, the market is declining because people have moved on to buying cars, there's just a very small group begging for improvements to the horse and buggy.

 

[ctyrider]

Over and over, this is a niche group asking for something they want, not something that would actually increase sales in a noticeable way.

It reminds me of Steve Jobs old quote. To rephrase it, the market is declining because people have moved on to buying cars, there's just a very small group begging for improvements to the horse and buggy.

SJ never said anything like that. You may be confusing it with Henry Ford's "faster horse" quote, which makes an entirely different point.

And actually, Apple is known to maintain certain niche products catering to a high-end segment of their users. Latest Mac Pro is a good example of that. (That's not to suggest they'd actually offer a high-end MP3 player at this point).

 

[AnonMac50]

Considering the Classic is $30 more than the touch and has 10 times the capacity, someone who just wants music most probably want the classic, not the touch.

 

[John.B]

Because then no-one would buy the iPhone, and Apple would either have to either take a huge loss or jack the iPod Touch prices up so they're close to that of an iPhone. Both would be terrible, terrible business strategies, which is why they'll never happen.

The could call it the iData and lump it in with the iPhone sales and the sales figures would only climb. The ones to really suffer would be the wireless carriers and their $20+/month unlimited text plans...

Remember, the only reason the iPod Touch has its current pricepoint is because it's gimped with a (now woefully underpowered) older version of the iPhone SoC processor. Even the iPad mini runs circles around the it.

 

[mrsir2009]

The could call it the iData and lump it in with the iPhone sales and the sales figures would only climb. The ones to really suffer would be the wireless carriers and their $20+/month unlimited text plans...

Remember, the only reason the iPod Touch has its current pricepoint is because it's gimped with a (now woefully underpowered) older version of the iPhone SoC processor. Even the iPad mini runs circles around the it.

Just to clarify: You're suggesting that Apple bump the price of the iPod Touch right up and include better internals, 4G etc?

 

[John.B]

Just to clarify: You're suggesting that Apple bump the price of the iPod Touch right up and include better internals, 4G etc?

No, I'm suggesting Apple keep a lower cost, lower powered iPod Touch *and* a full cost, full powered data-only LTE iPhone (functionally similar to a retina iPad mini but sized like an iPhone).

 

[mrsir2009]

No, I'm suggesting Apple keep a lower cost, lower powered iPod Touch *and* a full cost, full powered data-only LTE iPhone (functionally similar to a retina iPad mini but sized like an iPhone).

Oh I see... And there'd be no iPhone that includes traditional call and text capabilities?

 

[Jstuts5797]

Really what's going on here is SEVERAL things all at the same time. It can all basically be summed up using the term product life cycle. I think what we should all be EXCITED for is what apple will be coming up with next because all these things they are saying and doing.. And the point in the product life cycles their current line ups are in ALL point to Apple coming out with something very very soon, that right now we don't even know we want. JUST like they did with the iPod, the IPhone, and the iPad. I don't think they will completely discontinue production of their entire "iPod" line as long as there is a market there (and the $5 billion proves a market is there still) however, because of where it's at in it's product life cycle it no longer needs or requires all the continued research, advertising, and future development. Someone mentioned wearables... And who knows maybe that's the next direction they will take the iPod line. I just know it's at a point where they can't do much more that is "groundbreaking" and revolutionary to those devices anymore. They can still do that with the iPhone and iPad. They will soon be releasing some awesome new stuff and we will all be like "wow I had no idea I wanted that, needed that, or that could even be done, but now I must have it!" Patience people. We all know Apple does things on their own time, not ours and how we wish it to be. I see them releasing even more convergent devices. Any one else wonder why exactly Apple has in the past year all the sudden and somewhat quietly, aggressively adding new channels to ATV after years of no love? SOMETHING is going on there and it's probably not what we expect right now and they are doing it in such a way to keep any competitor from having any clue what's coming next. Your seeing Apple right now doing what it has ALWAYS excelled at - keeping everyone guessing and predicting, while at the same time throwing everyone off to what they are REALLY doing.

 

[phillytim]

Funny, as I own 3 iPods - Haa

(1) First-gen Mini, (1) Nano 3G and (1) Nano 6G

The Mini's usefulness pales in comparison to the Nanos, as it's heavy, low storage and battery is questionable.

The Nano 3G's battery life is becoming questionable.

Once the Nano 6G goes, I'm probably done with iPods.

I do have an iPhone, which I could see putting music on at some point after my iPods pass away.

The real problem with iPod sales has to be that everyone who'd want one already owns three of them.

 

[69650]

Um... what? You want Apple to invest more into this dying market to gain 35+ more customers?

The age 35+ audiophile demographic are also the same high-disposable income people who would buy MBPs, iPhones, iPads, etc. One purchase often leads to another with Apple.

 

[69650]

Bottom line - most people do NOT want to carry two extremely similar devices. They want a phone. And they want a tablet. They do not want a phone-sized tablet and a phone. Most people DON'T a need to have their entire 256GB music collection with them at all times.

Apple understands their market a lot better than you do. You're making the understandable mistake that what you want is what the mass market wants. It's not. It's not even close.

You didn't understand my point. I have an iPod touch. I never take it anywhere unless I'm going on holiday. It stays at home so I can pick it up and zap my music to the expensive bluetooth iPod speaker I just bought. I've no intention of taking it around with me as I don't listen to music on the go.

That is the target market. People like me who would be willing to pay for the convenience of storing my whole music collection on my home iPod. 64GB is too low so I have to hook it up to a Seagate Wireless drive to store the entire collection. It would be a whole lot more convenient if they simply made a 128GB or preferably 256GB version.

Is this a big market? I don't know but I do know a lot of people seem to be ditching their hifi systems for iPod speakers costing anywhere from £300 - £600 and beyond. If you're going to spend that kind of money I think you're more likely to be someone like me with an extensive record collection rather than someone with a few albums on their iPhone.

Is it worth their effort? I don't know but I do know that the iPod led me into the iPhone which in turn led me in to the iPad and MBP and a host of other Apple kit I have. Plus all the money I've spent in the iTunes Store filling up my Apple kit. I'm sure if Apple drops the iPod someone else will pick up the business and who knows where that will lead.

 

[JAT]

Oh I see... And there'd be no iPhone that includes traditional call and text capabilities?

You don't seriously think that's what he meant, do you?

 

[VI™]

I still use a classic 160GB in my car and for music storage. It's very nearly full. Until I can fit that much music on my phone or a touch, I will continue to use it and have it repaired or replaced when the time comes.

 

[milo]

SJ never said anything like that. You may be confusing it with Henry Ford's "faster horse" quote, which makes an entirely different point.

It was a Henry Ford quote and Jobs famously referenced it. Like I said, I rephrased it although the point is exactly the same.

So you can’t go out and ask people, you know, what the next big thing. There’s a great quote by Henry Ford, right? He said, ‘If I’d have asked my customers what they wanted, they would have told me ‘A faster horse.’

Insisting that the reason iPod is trailing off is because Apple needs to radically improve it is asking for a faster horse.

And actually, Apple is known to maintain certain niche products catering to a high-end segment of their users.

Mac Pro is a high end niche segment. Some people claim that some iPods mainly sell to "high end" customers but there's no real evidence of that.

The age 35+ audiophile demographic

Saying this over and over doesn't mean that demographic actually exists in any meaningful quantity. Nor that if that demographic exists, they're interested in iPods any more than the general public overall. Really you're taking the old "they should make it because I want it!" argument and just adding "and I'm rich!" to it.

 

[curmudgeon32]

It's been on a downward course for like 12 consecutive quarters? My point stands.... the iPod ran it's course and is slowly but surely being phased out.

I guess it depends on what you call "iPod". The iPod Touch is basically a very small pocketable iPad that sells at an affordable price. Call it what you will, but I think that as long as iPhones cost 3-4 times as much, there's going to be a market for a cheaper device with a similar form factor to the iPhone.

 

[ctyrider]

It was a Henry Ford quote and Jobs famously referenced it. Like I said, I rephrased it although the point is exactly the same.

Insisting that the reason iPod is trailing off is because Apple needs to radically improve it is asking for a faster horse.

Not to keep beating on a dead horse (pun intended) - but not really. By your logic, a $3K full-frame D-SLR camera is "horse and a buggy".. and iPhone-integrated camera is "an automobile"?

Asking Apple to turn iPod Classic into an audiophile-centric ultra-high-capacity / high-fidelity music player would be akin to asking them to produce SLR camera.

While they won't produce either one - your comparison of the high-end niche product to "horse and a buggy" is a bad one.

 

[godslabrat]

Apple is clearly selling enough iPods to justify keeping the product around for a while longer, but I have a hard time making sense of why we still have FOUR models. That's just too much diversity in what is becoming (if it isn't yet) a niche product.

I agree with some others saying the Touch is going to be around a while. It fits in with the Apple ecosystem and is a nice low-cost alternative to an iPad or iPhone.

The Nano and the Shuffle are a bit different. They both represent a standalone music player designed before the "App Store", and today are low-cost, lightweight alternatives to the Touch and iPhone. Which is fine... but I don't think Apple needs TWO such offerings. It's time to nix one or merge the two.

The Classic is a relic, pure and simple. I'm convinced it's only around because it costs Apple nearly nothing to have it. The R&D has long paid for itself and when they do sell a few, the margins are reasonably good. And it could be said that the capacity does rule all. However, I think if Apple dropped it, people would get over it in a hurry.

So there you have it. By the end of 2014, I suspect Apple will only offer the Touch and a NanoShuffle. But I'm just guessing like all of you.

 

[ctyrider]

The Nano and the Shuffle are a bit different. They both represent a standalone music player designed before the "App Store", and today are low-cost, lightweight alternatives to the Touch and iPhone. Which is fine... but I don't think Apple needs TWO such offerings. It's time to nix one or merge the two.

Both will be merged into a wearable device, most likely a watch.

The Classic is a relic, pure and simple. I'm convinced it's only around because it costs Apple nearly nothing to have it. The R&D has long paid for itself and when they do sell a few, the margins are reasonably good. And it could be said that the capacity does rule all. However, I think if Apple dropped it, people would get over it in a hurry.

I think Classic will be dropped once they start offering 128GB iPod Touch.. which I don't understand why they don't already - the technology is readily available. But I also think Classic holds a special nostalgic place for Apple - it's a device that "started it all". So they're letting it live a while longer.

 

[milo]

Asking Apple to turn iPod Classic into an audiophile-centric ultra-high-capacity / high-fidelity music player would be akin to asking them to produce SLR camera.

Nope, bad analogy.

If Apple decides they want to make a device that is ultra high capacity and high fidelity, nothing is stopping them from doing that with an iPhone. An iPod is never going to be able to have any features that the iPhone can't also have.

DSLR isn't the horse and buggy compared to the iPhone because the iPhone can't match the picture quality in its form factor. They're both in the "automobile" part of their respective categories. And it's easy to defend carrying around both DSLR and iPhone at the same time.

The iPod's functionality is a subset of the iPhone's functionality. By definition, there's nothing they can give it they couldn't also give to the iPhone.

And it's analogous to the horse and buggy in that it's a product that fewer and fewer users want as they transition to other products that include all the iPod features plus more. "Audiophile" may be a selling point to some of the public, but not enough of them, and not to the degree that it's going to make them choose a music only device over a device with more functionality that also plays music. Honestly at this point the main selling point for a music player iPod is "really small and really cheap".

Now looking purely at capacity, that's something they can bump easily with minimal if any R&D. We'll likely see boosted capacities for the iPods (at least the flash based ones) same as we'll see it for iPhones and iPads.

 

[John.B]

Oh I see... And there'd be no iPhone that includes traditional call and text capabilities?

Of course there would. iPhone 5S, iPhone 5S Data, iPhone 5C, iPad mini, iPad Air, iPod Touch, iPod nano, etc.

 

[ctyrider]

If Apple decides they want to make a device that is ultra high capacity and high fidelity, nothing is stopping them from doing that with an iPhone. An iPod is never going to be able to have any features that the iPhone can't also have.

DSLR isn't the horse and buggy compared to the iPhone because the iPhone can't match the picture quality in its form factor.

Wrong.

Ever heard of Olive and their digital music players? You will be no more successful shoving all of their technology (Burr-Brown DACs, multi-Terabyte storage, etc) into an iPhone form factor.. than shoving SLR sensors and wide lenses into an iPod Touch.

 

[hoshie31]

I think we should try to keep the numbers in perspective. I think those Apple competitors who still make MP3 players (such as SanDisk) would kill for the sales numbers Tim spoke of. Even though its clear tablets and smartphones have displaced MP3 players, the figures are still pretty good for the target market. As for me, I have a 6G 16GB nano. I brought it because of the radio and storage.

PS: This is my first post. I've been a lurker for a few years now.

 

[preyan]

Nonsense, there is nothing that can be done to revive this product category as it is being replaced by iPhones, Touches and iPads. Not even Steve Jobs would have been able to change that.

Go and take a look at this

The only way to break out of a product decline is to provide a new product with additional value to the customer, and that is exactly what Apple did with the iPhone.

Textbooks don't create innovation. Minds do. Just saying.

 

[Razeus]

I'm surprised they even sell the iPod Classic still. It will soon be overtaken by the iPhones in terms of storage capacity, it has no Lightning, and they haven't even changed the prices.

What are you smoking? iPhones have lauched with the EXACT SAME CAPACITY SINCE 2007.

That's unheard of in this industry, where you normally get more capacity and speed for the same price (all we are getting is speed, supposedly). Apple is purposely stagnating the market and innovation in the name of profits.

Microsoft did this with Windows. Yes, Windows changed the way we did computing. With so much profits to be made from Windows 95 on up, they made darn sure it stayed that way and thus lost innovation - unless you call a few face lifts innovation.

Looks like Apple is doing the exact same with iPhones.

Why would Apple create the next big thing when they are making money hand over fist with iDevices. This is the only reason they launched the iPhone. Because they could make way more money with it than the iPod.

Once Apple finds something it can make more money with than iPhone, it will. Until then, expect to keep buying 16GB phones.

 

[John.B]

What are you smoking? iPhones have lauched with the EXACT SAME CAPACITY SINCE 2007.

My 3GS was the maxed out version at 32GB. My iPhone 5 was the maxed out version at 64GB.

Ironically, when I got the 5S, I opted for the 32GB version.