As someone who makes every cent of his living selling Macs to pro users (video post/broadcast) I have to tell you, you don't know what you're talking about. Mac Pro, Xserve, Xsan, Final Cut Studio, even Final Cut Server, are all exclusively pro products. Things like Autodesk's Smoke are even coming to Mac, because they realize more and more pro users are using this platform. Not every last "pro Mac-oriented product" needs to be made by Apple you know -- NVIDIA has powerful aftermarket cards available, pretty much any beefy fibre channel or SAS RAID will work with Macs, etc. etc. etc. You are out of touch my friend.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Tim Cook Receives Bonus of $5 Million and Stock for Performance During Jobs' Absence
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
That does not jive with what my sources have told me, which is that these were just about all support staff out of Austin.
Many small business owners make over $5 million a year. Should the owner of a small parts maker in Skunkwood Oklahoma make more per year than the Acting CEO of Apple?
And what makes you think you are better then him? And who are you to say what one's work is worth?
Forty-THOUSAND $Millions I believe at last count. But it's going up very fast, so it's probably more now.
Who is to claim that a divorced mother who works three jobs and 100+ hours a week is valued less than a privileged [white] CEO who used his family's contacts to get into Yale where he barely passed in order to make 7 figures a year? How does anyone substantiate the value of anyone's labour, may it be the divorced mother or the privileged CEO? The mother may have come from a broken home, may work longer and more arduously at her job. However, the banker was born into his privilege. We live in a class system, always have and always will. Capitalism and choice are an illusion.
Holy hell, are two people engaged in a sensible debate about politics and economics and social justice, on a MAC forum of all places?! Stop, you're breaking the rules, I'm sure of it.
I'll add my two cents:
I think VERY basic needs should be provided for by the wealth of our civilization. Basic sustenance, healthcare, and a roof over your head, and a functioning public transportation system. I don't think this is too much to ask for, and I say this as a fairly well-off guy, who would be one of the folks paying for all of these things, for OTHER people.
I think beyond the above, the free-market system should absolutely reign supreme. If Apple wants to pay Cook over $20 Million in bonuses, let them. Remember people, almost HALF of that bonus is actually going into government coffers! Oh yeah...
Anyway, back to the mindless rants.
I'll add my two cents:
I think VERY basic needs should be provided for by the wealth of our civilization. Basic sustenance, healthcare, and a roof over your head, and a functioning public transportation system. I don't think this is too much to ask for, and I say this as a fairly well-off guy, who would be one of the folks paying for all of these things, for OTHER people.
I think beyond the above, the free-market system should absolutely reign supreme. If Apple wants to pay Cook over $20 Million in bonuses, let them. Remember people, almost HALF of that bonus is actually going into government coffers! Oh yeah...
Anyway, back to the mindless rants.
Are some people privileged? Yes. I have little problem with people making lots of money. I do think that those of us who make lots of money have considerable responsibility to those who do not.
Are there single mothers who work 80 hours per week for minimum wage? Yes. Do many of these single mothers have far more skill, talent and drive than those that earn 8 digits? Yes. It is the responsibility of everyone, schools, the government and the little old lady that lives on the corner to insure everyone gets the education and opportunity to perform to the best of their ability.
Many people unfortunately can not perform. I know people who for medical reasons will never hold a job (It is hard to hold a job when you can't walk from your house to your car without tossing your cookies and a trip to the doctor leads to five days in bed unable to move).
We all have a responsibility to insure those who are disabled can work as much as they can. We also have a responsibility to insure these people have a respectable life. Those of us who have greater resources have a greater share of this responsibility.
Are there single mothers who work 80 hours per week for minimum wage? Yes. Do many of these single mothers have far more skill, talent and drive than those that earn 8 digits? Yes. It is the responsibility of everyone, schools, the government and the little old lady that lives on the corner to insure everyone gets the education and opportunity to perform to the best of their ability.
Many people unfortunately can not perform. I know people who for medical reasons will never hold a job (It is hard to hold a job when you can't walk from your house to your car without tossing your cookies and a trip to the doctor leads to five days in bed unable to move).
We all have a responsibility to insure those who are disabled can work as much as they can. We also have a responsibility to insure these people have a respectable life. Those of us who have greater resources have a greater share of this responsibility.
Thank you. While I agree with some views on objectivism and capitalism, the fact is we are all human beings and are government was established by the people, for the people to ensure that all men have the same rights. No clauses.
The reality is we live in class system, always have and always will. To claim that one man's labour is worth more than another man's is unjust, especially given the socio-political and economic disparities in our society. I'm not claiming that no one should make this amount of money, however I am pointing out the disparity in the system when it happens.
I think this is a totally sensible comment. What bothers me is some people (definitely not saying you) seem to forget about the fact that people whop get paid lots of money, pay LOTS of money in taxes. Much higher rates of taxation, and MUCH higher gross amounts per individual. This is the model our society has come up with, to deliver what you outlined below. unfortunately, the people who manage all of this money the government has available to it, seem to like wasting it like there's no tomorrow.
However, I am not the type who thinks that this means that inherently government is bad. Rather, I think it means we need to hold people who hold power in the government to VERY high standards, to use that tax revenue appropriately. They DO NOT. This should make EVERYONE upset, no matter which side of the political spectrum you might fall.
However, I am not the type who thinks that this means that inherently government is bad. Rather, I think it means we need to hold people who hold power in the government to VERY high standards, to use that tax revenue appropriately. They DO NOT. This should make EVERYONE upset, no matter which side of the political spectrum you might fall.
And how many of them are fully supported by Apple? Many people would love to use NVIDIA cards that have SDI I/O on them but Apple doesn't support that, AFAIK. Does Apple still make things squarely targeted at the creative professional market? Yeah, do they do it w/the same vigor that they did between 2001 and 2006/7? IMO, no they don't.
Bob Sliga, a former member of the Color dev team, said that three members of the Color team (1 engineer and 2 QA guys) were part of the 40 that were let go.
Lethal
I often wonder if a corporate executive would ever agree to sacrificing a small part of his salary to keep a member of their company from being unemployed during tough economic times, especially if that member of the team may be needed. "Survival of the fittest" or "survival of the fortunate"? Read up on some studies done with regards to the new measure of survival of the species, it's very interesting how power and financial success have become the new measure of "survival" and how superiority in self-prowess and the drive to dominate genetically are markers in many fortune 500 CEO's.
Apple doesn't even people that well within their own field. Folks at VMware 10 miles up the road are extremely well paid compared to most of their Silicon Valley counterparts, for example.
Good discussion
I'm glad to see that people are interested in talking about the social implications of capitalism. Maybe some will consider questioning their own assumptions. Anyway, good discussion! Now....
So, have you decided to live like a successful corporate executive? Have you decided to be obscenely wealthy? Have you decided to collect multi-million dollar compensation annually? No? Of course you haven't. You CAN'T. The gates around Beverly Hills and the Hamptons are locked tight and they have no intention of letting you, or me, in.
Oversimplification, yes, but the overall concept is true. Are there rare examples of people inventing a Facebook or PayPal and getting rich? Of course. But in general, there is an elite class of rich and powerful people who maintain and expand their wealth at an accelerating rate. This is not some "status quo" of capitalism, as some have suggested ("there will always be rich"...etc) Check the actual numbers - CEO pay as a ratio to average worker pay continues to rise (the average CEO in 1965 made 24 times the average worker's annual pay, 35 times in 1979, and 262 times in 2005.) So, I certainly don't argue that someone like Tim Cook doesn't deserve to make outstanding money, only that our definition of "outstanding" shouldn't continue to outdistance average worker pay. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median pay for Computer Applications Software Engineers in 2008 was $85,430. So, at the 1965 CEO pay ratio of 24:1, compensation of just over $2 million for Tim Cook would be fair. (And, coincidentally, at $22 million or 258:1, he is just under today's average CEO pay).
For those who haven't read the 2006 internal Citigroup strategy memo describing our system as a "Plutonomy," here's a quote and a link:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6674229/Citigroup-Mar-5-2006-Plutonomy-Report-Part-2
"RISKS- WHAT COULD GO WRONG?
Our whole plutonomy thesis is based on the idea that the rich will keep getting richer. This thesis is not without risks...the rising wealth gap between the rich and poor will probably at some point lead to a political backlash. Whilst the rich are getting a greater share of the wealth, and the poor a lesser share, political enfranchisement remains as was - one person, one vote..."
In other words, the fact that we can still vote scares them. Although I don't realistically see that challenging their power.
I'm glad to see that people are interested in talking about the social implications of capitalism. Maybe some will consider questioning their own assumptions. Anyway, good discussion! Now....
So, have you decided to live like a successful corporate executive? Have you decided to be obscenely wealthy? Have you decided to collect multi-million dollar compensation annually? No? Of course you haven't. You CAN'T. The gates around Beverly Hills and the Hamptons are locked tight and they have no intention of letting you, or me, in.
Oversimplification, yes, but the overall concept is true. Are there rare examples of people inventing a Facebook or PayPal and getting rich? Of course. But in general, there is an elite class of rich and powerful people who maintain and expand their wealth at an accelerating rate. This is not some "status quo" of capitalism, as some have suggested ("there will always be rich"...etc) Check the actual numbers - CEO pay as a ratio to average worker pay continues to rise (the average CEO in 1965 made 24 times the average worker's annual pay, 35 times in 1979, and 262 times in 2005.) So, I certainly don't argue that someone like Tim Cook doesn't deserve to make outstanding money, only that our definition of "outstanding" shouldn't continue to outdistance average worker pay. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median pay for Computer Applications Software Engineers in 2008 was $85,430. So, at the 1965 CEO pay ratio of 24:1, compensation of just over $2 million for Tim Cook would be fair. (And, coincidentally, at $22 million or 258:1, he is just under today's average CEO pay).
For those who haven't read the 2006 internal Citigroup strategy memo describing our system as a "Plutonomy," here's a quote and a link:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6674229/Citigroup-Mar-5-2006-Plutonomy-Report-Part-2
"RISKS- WHAT COULD GO WRONG?
Our whole plutonomy thesis is based on the idea that the rich will keep getting richer. This thesis is not without risks...the rising wealth gap between the rich and poor will probably at some point lead to a political backlash. Whilst the rich are getting a greater share of the wealth, and the poor a lesser share, political enfranchisement remains as was - one person, one vote..."
In other words, the fact that we can still vote scares them. Although I don't realistically see that challenging their power.
I'm really not trying to come off like a douche with this comment, but dude, you really have no idea what you're talking about. I don't think you really know what it's like to "cocoa-ize" legacy software on the scale of Apple's Pro Apps, which have codebases in some cases over a decade old. I don't think you understand what 10.6 was all about and how profound some of its internal technologies are, and how it puts Apple years ahead of the competition is key realms that are very relevant to the future of computing hardware. I think if you call Webkit something that only benefits gadgets, you really don't have much of an understanding of web technologies, standards versus proprietary technology, open source, or browser-politics.
Feel free to post your ideas on forums such as this, but some of us who are perhaps a little older and wiser will call you out on garbage.
But thats exactly it, theyve had a DECADE. A decade ago Mac OSX was only just released! A decade Ago Maya was still a decent peice of software. A decade ago RealPlayer was relevant. A decade Ago XP was released. How much of Microsoft's software base have been completely rewritten now? And Apple are only now taking some actions to Cocoaize Mac OSX? If Im going to call Adobe out for the same demeanor, lest I not be hypocritical and call Apple out for the same thing.
Webkit is only Opensource because KHTML was under the GNU license.
OpenCL and GCD are useless until developers start using it. Now theyre litterally bloat because not even Apple utilizes it. Technologies like OpenCL and GCD were around in Linux and Microsoft OSes before. Apple only just caught up! The only thing OpenCL brings to the table is that it has true GPU idependency.
Actually this is the result of an argument in my Psycology paper. It was awsome, the whole lecture room was debating for 2 hours! Whenever there is human interaction, pure theory ceases to apply.
Too much money is also discused in "Economics 101". At least at the Univeristy of Waikato.
The funny thing about that is, we are competing against another student group. They made this design abomination.
http://www.quiltalog.com/
while I 'made' their forums (I reskinned the deafult SMF theme, not what I would've done. But he wanted it to fit the theme of the main website, at $200...)
http:/forums.quiltalog.com/
Except the company has gone to the guzzards and the forum is filled with russian spam. Hes trying to sell off his actuall IP, which is really well written Quilting Books.
Two points and I'll be quiet:
1. Apple is a public company. If the owners, the shareholders, don't like what they're paying their executives or think they're overpaid, they have the right and the ability to do something about it. THEY OWN THE COMPANY. It's not the government's place to EVER tell a PRIVATE corporation how to compensate it's employees.
2. My original intent was to emphasize freedom of choice and the personal responsibility to live with the consequences of those choices. I spend my days trying to improve on what I did yesterday; to be the best I can be. I don't spend it envying what other people have or asking for something to be taken from someone else so I can have more. I don't say it's unfair that he has more than I do. He probably worked really hard for it.
Live your own life to the very best of your ability and stop comparing yourselves to the ultra wealthy. Life isn't fair - never was, never will be, and no government in the history of mankind has every created true equality amongst all its citizenry.
1. Apple is a public company. If the owners, the shareholders, don't like what they're paying their executives or think they're overpaid, they have the right and the ability to do something about it. THEY OWN THE COMPANY. It's not the government's place to EVER tell a PRIVATE corporation how to compensate it's employees.
2. My original intent was to emphasize freedom of choice and the personal responsibility to live with the consequences of those choices. I spend my days trying to improve on what I did yesterday; to be the best I can be. I don't spend it envying what other people have or asking for something to be taken from someone else so I can have more. I don't say it's unfair that he has more than I do. He probably worked really hard for it.
Live your own life to the very best of your ability and stop comparing yourselves to the ultra wealthy. Life isn't fair - never was, never will be, and no government in the history of mankind has every created true equality amongst all its citizenry.
Better yet, let's just make ALL corporations property of the US government! That was, any profits can feed right back into the government, for the good of the motherland!
What you need to understand is that life just isn't 100% fair. We don't all start out at zero. There is no way to ensure that happening that would be fair. Would you be happy with a system where all your earnings were undistributable to your family, and confiscated at death, so that everyone starts at the same point? And anyway, what privelege was Tim Cook born into? From wikipedia:
Cook grew up in Robertsdale, Alabama. His father was a shipyard worker, while his mother was a homemaker. Cook earned B.S. in industrial engineering from Auburn University in 1982, and his M.B.A. from Duke University's Fuqua School of Business in 1988.
Seems like this guy made his own way.
As another poster mentioned, you have some glaring "unfair" aspects to capitalism, but the other options (communism) make the average worker much less able to push for their own upward mobility.
Read post number 216 (scoobydoo99), his comment touches more on my statements. Certainly life is "unfair", but it is also [collectively] up to humanity to determine what life "is". Unfortunately, humanity isn't proving itself to be "humane".
This made me [even] sadder.
People really do suck. It's moments such as this that make me want to live on an island, or shut myself away. Every time I hear someone who banters on about the "New World Order", I sometimes walk away wondering "what if?". Now, even more so...I certainly didn't compare myself to anyone, my income is not in the top 1% (which was $407,096 for 2007), but is in the top 5%, so I'm not complaining.
I am only making observations about human nature and exploitation. It's great that you're okay with it. And really, most ppl are. Like I said, this is not a case of a status quo between rich and poor - the rich are increasing their share of total global wealth. They are using the natural and human resources of the planet to live obscenely extravagant lifestyles and they will not stop until there is nothing left to take. I'm not losing any sleep over it, and I'm not complaining that I want a bigger share - that's just the way it is, and it is evil.
Life is what you make it. If you think a class system is the reason why you'll never earn more than your bills well... Its not like Victorian England where you really are stuck. Tertiary Education is avaliable to most people - giving you the skills you need to go higher.
But $5mill is an extravagant amount of money.