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That is an extremely inaccurate statement especially considering that most of the modern welfare that we deliver today was introduced as part of LBJ's war on poverty in the 1960's.

The War on Poverty saw a large spike in spending, true. Though it peaked around 75, and has been lowering every since.

Since I don't have much time at the moment,
Here's a quick link.

I'll reply to the rest when I get back.
 
And that assumption that they are going to take our jobs and milk the system are exactly the kind of fear I was talking about.

Going to? It's already happening.

Who was it who said “At a time when nearly fourteen percent of Americans do not have a full-time job, and when the middle class is working longer hours for lower wages, I oppose a massive increase in temporary guest worker programs that will allow large corporations to import hundreds of thousands of blue-collar and white-collar workers from overseas.” ??

Oh, right, Bernie Sanders said it, and he wasn't even willing to discuss illegal immigration although he knows it is suppressing the wages of Americans.

We also know that households who have a head of house who has only a high school education tend to take in more tax benefits than they pay out... the deficit is made up for by families that pay more in taxes.

In the case of households with less than HS education the difference is even worse.... as much as a $20K roughly "drag" on the economy for the typical family of four where the head of house has a 10th grade education.

Guess what the average education level of the average illegal immigrant is? 10th grade. We know that they cost more in taxes than they put into the system. You might not like it, but it is a fact.
 
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For those immersed in the discussion of whether there is a difference between conservatives and liberals in US politics. Or in the politics of any western country, be it GB, France, Italy, Scandinavia, Australia, NZ, Japan etc. etc.:

Conservatism or liberalism are just stamps used to fool people into believing they really have a choice.



Vote.jpg
 
3. The US does spend roughly 50% of their budget on military programs, ...

Note that a vast portion of military programs are actually pork-barrel welfare programs, employing large numbers of people (in certain Senator's home states), many blue collar, who would otherwise be out-of-work or displacing currently employed workers.
 
That is an extremely inaccurate statement especially considering that most of the modern welfare that we deliver today was introduced as part of LBJ's war on poverty in the 1960's.

1. Wealth & Welfare is one of the only books that actually tries to determine all social welfare spending and compare it by country. Guess what? The US spends much more on social programs aimed at the poor than every other "enlightened" european country other than Norway. Additionally the authors make some compelling argument that US poverty numbers are quite inflated based on the old metric of claiming a certain percentage below median income equals "poverty" regardless of actual living standards.

So why is our standard of living so much lower in comparison? Our quality of education is suffering, our happiness index is in the toilet, and our wages have stagnated over the last 30 odd years? Certainly you could make a good argument about the efficiency of our implementation of welfare, but when you consider past history, and compare ourselves to the other 1st world nations, you can't make an argument against the concept of welfare itself.

On top of that, I believe welfare, minus medicaid, only accounts for around 2% of our GDP. Even if we were to nix all welfare programs completely, throw out food stamps, and boot everyone off the dole, it wouldn't a thing to help our so called debt concerns. In fact, it'd probably make them worse, since our welfare subsidized corporations, such as Wal-Mart, don't pay a living wage for their average worker, which means they'll have to get an extra job, won't have time for anything else besides throwing all their energy at barely treading water, which will equate to less money flowing through the economy.

2. I would like to know where you are getting your data from, because AFAIK there is no data available more recently than around 2013 time-frame.... at which time we could see that compared to 2003 the United States was spending more in every single category (SNAP, Medicaid, Medicare, WIC, CHIP, supplementary energy assistance) with the exception of assistance payments to states... which lines up with the Federal governments goal of pushing states into the margins in this area and becoming the primary "care provider" for people who are unable to take care of themselves, from birth to death.

Mostly I'm counting everything besides Medicaid and Medicare, which we do spend a relatively good chunk of cash on. Generally speaking, we spend a bit less on welfare assistance than we have previously. Yet somehow it's considered a massive, MASSIVE burden on the average taxpayer, who ultimately only contributes around $100 a year towards it.

3. The US does spend roughly 50% of their budget on military programs, however where-as you want to cut military spending and then re-distribute that to help "the poor", many people are in favor of cutting military AND OTHER spending and paying down our insane debt!

4. Many Americans, especially those who've never served in the military don't understand the need for military spending because they don't see the results in their day to day lives.... here's what the military does in a nutshell - the military keeps people from coming here or going somewhere else friendly to Americans and their business interests and taking all of your stuff... which is something that countries with weak militaries have found out about now for many thousands of years. Rome didn't fall because the Goths and Vandals were better then them technologically or even tactically... they won because the average Roman had lost the will to fight them. Towards the end of the western Roman Empire men of military age had gotten into the habit of cutting of their thumbs so they couldn't hold a sword, insuring they couldn't be pressed into military service. Similar to the draft dodging dirty hippies of the US circa 1970.

Don't look at it as just helping the "poor". Look at it as using our taxes to strengthen the nation as a whole. Despite the fact that our economy has only grown over the last 100 odd years, our infrastructure is crap, education is blah blah blah, and so on and so on. So what's the one thing that's increased by exponential amounts since the 60's? Our military budget. As you said, it makes up a full 50% of our budget. And of course there's the old chestnut about us spending more on our military than the next 10 countries combined.

Now I'm not advocating we rid ourselves of our military. It's kind of a necessity. Nor am I saying we should do cut military benefits or personnel. Hell, those barely make up a fraction of our military costs anyway.

Most of our budget goes towards the people who make all our cool toys. While this is also an absolute necessity when taken at face value, because we have to maintain our technological advantage, the sad fact is that we're not spending our money efficiently. Let's take the infamous F-35, which cost we the taxpayers somewhere between $800 billion and $1.5 trillion.

...for what? The research required to build a new model of plane that could be generously described as "decent enough". The cost of this research almost equals the amount of half the money we've spent funding the war in Iraq. For the cost of this one middling to decent long distance fighter jet, we could practically have sent an entire generation of kids through 4 years of college.

Some of these kids would've pushed their education farther, became our next generation of engineers, and figured out how to build a goddamn futuristic fighter jet for less a trillion dollars. NET GAINS ALL AROUND!

Our military industrial complex is one giant hole we throw money into, and sometimes...sometimes...it tosses a little trinket back at us as a half hearted thanks.
 
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This isn't Europe, we don't throw people in jail for talking, even if people find what they are saying uncomfortable. It can be argued that Trump is simply saying what a lot of people are thinking, re: the US middle-class getting crushed so that plutocrats and oligarchs can line their pockets... and that one of the reasons for this is losing jobs to trade deals that only benefit the .1% and other countries.

Trump says a lot of stupid crap that people love to jump on. Trump also just says what he likes and doesn't require a teleprompter or prepared remarks for every time he opens his yap, like Obama.

It's the not-stupid crap that he's saying about trade and immigration that have gotten people's attention and are generating the amount of enthusiasm he gets.
Err yes you do throw people in jail for talking especially if thats attached to racist or religious remarks. The world is no longer a place where you can publicly share or spread hate like trumpf does. There are plenty of places that haven't caught up in parts of america and even you guessed it, europe and even the odd person here and there everywhere has extreme or right wight views. Trumpoo poo is probably one of the most inarticulate candidates ever see, he'll keep pedalling his stick but he's going to end up shooting himself in the foot, the latest protests against him show he's offensive and will never be in power.
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Yeah because building extermination camps to imprison and eradicate a people is JUST EXACTLY like building a fence to keep people out who aren't supposed to be here legally.

Mexico should pay for it because they are costing us millions of manufacturing jobs and illegal immigrants send billions back from the US to keep the Mexico economy afloat. The Mexican economy needs us being "nice" to them a heckuva lot more than the US economy needs to be nice to them.
You can't be that short sighted as to not know why immigration is tolerated? really. Go and read some economy 101. I can give you the basics, cheap unskilled labor for US businesses is good, us jobs remain largely unaffected, increased business efficiency helps pay for more higher paid roles for US citizens, lost money is offset by cheaper labor and increased business. I'm sorry but you'll find it's the opposite story when immigration is low, especially if the birth rate is slowing, check out the issues with japan and it's ageing populous. You really need to get out more and read.
 
Go and read some economy 101. I can give you the basics, cheap unskilled labor for US businesses is good, us jobs remain largely unaffected, increased business efficiency helps pay for more higher paid roles for US citizens, lost money is offset by cheaper labor and increased business.

Cheap unskilled labor is good. Cheap unskilled illegal labor, not so.

There are lots of people who have applied for legal immigration to take jobs. The ones who have paid criminals to smuggle them in shouldn't be allowed to cut in line ahead of the ones who have legally applied for green cards, etc.

Furthermore, the one who meet the requirements for legal entry and work permits are less likely to allow employers to abuse them with sub-standard work conditions, which, even though those conditions increase "business efficiency", is not always in the best interests of the country.
 
Man I really wanna read through all these comments but I'd really regret the wasted time in the end if they're mostly un-insightful. Will it be worth the time lol!

I don't agree with Trump and his policies, but I find it interesting the lengths to which important people are going in order to stop him from being president.

He may not be fit to be president, but at the end of the day it's a democracy and people are supporting him.

Very apropos observation. I find it interesting how someone with his personality can become as successful as he has.
 
Man I really wanna read through all these comments but I'd really regret the wasted time in the end if they're mostly un-insightful. Will it be worth the time lol!



Very apropos observation. I find it interesting how someone with his personality can become as successful as he has.

I find it interesting that a serial liar and career criminal like Hillary Clinton can not only march towards the Democratic nomination but have people cheering her along the way. Her latest ads have basically said if you don't support her you are a sexist because it's time to elect a woman.

Over a dozen talking head pundits and analysts made on-air predictions that if Trump had the majority of delegates and did not win the nomination that it would be an "open revolt" or "turmoil" or "mayhem".... yet, when Trump says there would be riots if he was the presumptive nominee and was cheated of the nomination in a brokered convention the headlines at CNN and elsewhere proclaim "Trump threatens riots if he's not the nominee".

I've been watching politics for over 20 years and I've never seen the amount of smearing that Trump has endured on his march towards the nomination.

I don't agree with a lot of what the guy says, but he is by far the most tenacious politician I've ever seen. Despite the non-stop mud being slung at him by both the right and the left he just keeps going and attracting MORE voters because they see what is going on in the media and they don't like it.
 
I've been watching politics for over 20 years and I've never seen the amount of smearing that Trump has endured on his march towards the nomination.
Basically it's a confirmation of him being a decent person. All the creeps hate him, so there must be something good there.

*edit - might have to revise that statement after seeing his performance at AIPAC.
 
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I find it interesting that a serial liar and career criminal like Hillary Clinton can not only march towards the Democratic nomination but have people cheering her along the way. Her latest ads have basically said if you don't support her you are a sexist because it's time to elect a woman.

Over a dozen talking head pundits and analysts made on-air predictions that if Trump had the majority of delegates and did not win the nomination that it would be an "open revolt" or "turmoil" or "mayhem".... yet, when Trump says there would be riots if he was the presumptive nominee and was cheated of the nomination in a brokered convention the headlines at CNN and elsewhere proclaim "Trump threatens riots if he's not the nominee".

I've been watching politics for over 20 years and I've never seen the amount of smearing that Trump has endured on his march towards the nomination.

I don't agree with a lot of what the guy says, but he is by far the most tenacious politician I've ever seen. Despite the non-stop mud being slung at him by both the right and the left he just keeps going and attracting MORE voters because they see what is going on in the media and they don't like it.

Thank you so much

You have restored my confidence that there are sane people in the world
 
Of course he can, all Hillary needs to do is pick him as Vicepresident and die before her term is over.

Not possible.

12th Amendment of the US Constitution, Clause 3:

The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

As he would be ineligible to be POTUS after his 2-term limit is over, he would also be ineligible to be vPOTUS.

However, there is the argument that the 12th only applies to the House of Representatives choosing the POTUS and vPOTUS, so there is some grey area there.

And on that note, the only other way a person could get around that two-term limit, is to be selected as Speaker of the House. As current House rules state that the majority party picks the Speaker, the Speaker does not have to be an elected member of Congress to hold such position.

I mention this because in the POTUS line of succession, that line goes:
  1. Vice President of the United States,
  2. Speaker of the House of Representatives,
  3. President Pro Tempore of the Senate,
  4. Secretary of State.
In short, the VPOTUS and POTUS would have to die at the same time, or before a successor is chosen per the 25th Amendment. Rare chances, but that is why the VPOTUS and POTUS do not fly in the same aircraft. That separation is required to keep the 12th, 20th, and 25th Amendments sound.

BL.
 
Not possible.
Nothing is impossible in the land of opportunity. Do detainees in Guantanamo not have the constitutional right to a speedy trial? Who knows and who cares! The constitution is what you make of it. Just form a powerful lobby and make the law mean whatever you want. The American Way.

 
Obama can't get re-elected, so your point is moot.

He can't get re-elected but he can stay in office for an indefinite time if he so chooses.

All he has to do is to blow something really big up or spread some nasty virus or invent an alien threat or dream up some other mad threat and declare a state of emergency.

Then he will, under current laws, be able to be Palpatine for as long as he likes and no-one can do anything about it.

The US Gestapo agencies are all prepared for that scenario. Militarised interior security forces will help keep people at bay. The concentration camps are designed. The body bags ready.

Only thing left is to take all the guns away from the public so there cannot be any resistance. I'm sure there is a plan to mange that as well. One option is to have a pre-false flag with some real punch in order to ban private firearms completely.

This is unfortunately the direction things are going both in the US and in Europe. France is already legally operating under emergency laws. Belgium too after the latest Gladio operation.

More so-called terrorist attacks will follow and more countries will start to operate in states of emergency. Low odds on Britan and Germany in this regard.
 
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He can't get re-elected but he can stay in office for an indefinite time if he so chooses.

All he has to do is to blow something really big up or spread some nasty virus or invent an alien threat or dream up some other mad threat and declare a state of emergency.

Then he will, under current laws, be able to be Palpatine for as long as he likes and no-one can do anything about it.

The US Gestapo agencies are all prepared for that scenario. Militarised interior security forces will help keep people at bay. The concentration camps are designed. The body bags ready.

Only thing left is to take all the guns away from the public so there cannot be any resistance. I'm sure there is a plan to mange that as well. One option is to have a pre-false flag with some real punch in order to ban private firearms completely.

This is unfortunately the direction things are going both in the US and in Europe. France is already legally operating under emergency laws. Belgium too after the latest Gladio operation.

More so-called terrorist attacks will follow and more countries will start to operate in states of emergency. Low odds on Britan and Germany in this regard.


Wow, @FieldingMellish better up his game.
 
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