Tim Cook to Testify In Front of Senate Committee Over Apple's Tax Practices

[palmerc2]

It's not a tax income problem, it's a spending problem.

That $13 billion would be spent in just over 1 day.

Doesn't seem too big now, does it?

 

[AppleHater]

And if they didn't exist, nobody would have employment. It's a two-way street. Employers employ labor, labor works for employers.

With the same logic, without people there is no one to hire to run the company or pay the income tax. Then don't we deserve a better rate as well?

 

[lucas107]

1. Get rid of corporate and individual income taxes (repeal 16th amendment).
2. Implement a national sales tax.
3. Stop all foreign wars.
4. Get military out of foreign countries.
5. Legalize illegal immigrants.
6. Stop Federal spending
7. Shrink the Federal government.
8. Idolize wealthy philanthropists.

Okay.. That's super simplified and each one could have it's own thread, but honestly a 74K page tax code is nuts. Loopholes, yeah we have loopholes. Sure there's tons wrong with our system, but complaining about one companies doings is just is silly. The problem lies with government, not Apple. Legally Apple has to do everything in its power to increase value to shareholders. So if companies find loopholes to increase the bottom line, they're obligated to do so. Is that a problem? Yes. It's also a reason why some companies don't want to go public. However, there's so much more to it than that.

Our Federal government wastes so much money, it's ridiculous. Business create wealth, government doesn't. Our countries biggest problem is our debt and we didn't get there by people not paying "their fair share." We got there by politicians spending money and this falls on both sides of the aisle.

The biggest positive change we can make right now is simplifying the tax code.

The entire american monetary system is based off of debt. Without debt there would be no money in your economy. Govt spending really has very little to do with it. Its the choice of the govt to operate under a central bank and American will always be in debt under that system. And those that speak of a democratic america are blind. Democracy in america is the illusion of choice.

"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
Louis D. Brandeis

 

[Dmunjal]

With the same logic, without people there is no one to hire to run the company or pay the income tax. Then don't we deserve a better rate as well?

The price of labor is the same as the price of anything. It has to be negotiated. If you want a better rate and your employer doesn't want to give it to or you can't negotiate for more, you go somewhere else. If you choose to stay, you are saying that it's either not worth the headache of changing or you can't find a better rate.

The fact that people are not quitting en masses means that the rate is the right one.

If you're complaint is that the cost of living is too high, that's another problem. Primarily caused by inflation due to deficit spending and the Fed's monetary policy.

 

[alfonsog]

"Money is not speech, and that human beings, not corporations, are persons entitled to constitutional rights." Amend the constitution. That will solve a lot of these problems http://www.movetoamend.org

I can't believe anyone is defending Apple or any of the giant multinationals that use these tax shelters to avoid paying tax on huge profits that should be repatriated, taxed, and then given back to the stockholders; unfortunately most stock is owned by other giant funds and it all loops over multiple times keeping real wealth in the hands of a few. I don't think they realize it themselves or mean to do it but their greed and lust for power is no different than the kings of the past.

If corporations are treated like people then they should have a limited lifespan.

 

[pgwalsh]

The entire american monetary system is based off of debt. Without debt there would be no money in your economy. Govt spending really has very little to do with it. Its the choice of the govt to operate under a central bank and American will always be in debt under that system. And those that speak of a democratic america are blind. Democracy in america is the illusion of choice.

"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
Louis D. Brandeis

I don't necessarily agree with your first three paragraphs, but the rest I can. The borrowing and increasing the supply of money has had adverse affects on people's savings. That's a problem for many people who counted on what they have to support themselves through retirement.

 

[PracticalMac]

Their should be NO tax on bringing income into the US.

The untaxed money will be spent in the US to improve and market what they sell.

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1. Get rid of corporate and individual income taxes (repeal 16th amendment).
2. Implement a national sales tax.
3. Stop all foreign wars.
4. Get military out of foreign countries.
5. Legalize illegal immigrants.
6. Stop Federal spending
7. Shrink the Federal government.
8. Idolize wealthy philanthropists.

Okay.. That's super simplified and each one could have it's own thread, but honestly a 74K page tax code is nuts. Loopholes, yeah we have loopholes. Sure there's tons wrong with our system, but complaining about one companies doings is just is silly. The problem lies with government, not Apple. Legally Apple has to do everything in its power to increase value to shareholders. So if companies find loopholes to increase the bottom line, they're obligated to do so. Is that a problem? Yes. It's also a reason why some companies don't want to go public. However, there's so much more to it than that.

Our Federal government wastes so much money, it's ridiculous. Business create wealth, government doesn't. Our countries biggest problem is our debt and we didn't get there by people not paying "their fair share." We got there by politicians spending money and this falls on both sides of the aisle.

The biggest positive change we can make right now is simplifying the tax code.

On one hand I agree, on the other its flat wrong.

Yes, the current structure is a mess, rife with abuse, but on the other hand some minimal income tax is needed, less then 10% works fine. (a very long topic of discussion)


The part that Government does not create jobs is completely false, however.
Example: Roads, rail roads, bridges, ports, airports, etc are almost entirely built by government funds. They create millions of jobs, and in return stimulates tens of millions of more jobs. Infrastructure improvement is almost never a waste of money.

Another example: NASA and DARPA

----------

The entire american monetary system is based off of debt. Without debt there would be no money in your economy. Govt spending really has very little to do with it. Its the choice of the govt to operate under a central bank and American will always be in debt under that system. And those that speak of a democratic america are blind. Democracy in america is the illusion of choice.

"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
Louis D. Brandeis

Debt is not the issue.

It is the size of the debt that is the issue.

Debt is not evil, it just spreads a short term need for more money over a long term, and pays a "thank you" to the loaner.

But when a temporary need becomes permanent, it is like a heroin user.


If money=power, then I can agree with Louis D. Brandeis

 

[MikBe]

What does Homeland Security have to do with collecting of taxes?

You are hereby ordered to report to the re-education center. Failure to comply will result in immediate detention as a foreign combatant.

 

[lucas107]

Debt is not evil, it just spreads a short term need for more money over a long term, and pays a "thank you" to the loaner.

But when a temporary need becomes permanent, it is like a heroin user.

If money=power, then I can agree with Louis D. Brandeis

Money does = power in this world not just the US. Most presidents have been bought and paid for since Andrew Jackson(not including) Also the US debt can never be temporary when taken from a central bank. All US money is owed to the Federal Reserve with interest. The US can never be without debt and inflation under this system.

 

[Starflyer]

It isn't unfair to other companies, it is unfair to the tax paying citizens (you and me) who have to pay more because "every big company" doesn't pay their fair share.

How much more tax will you have to pay because Apple did this?

 

[AaronEdwards]

Companies such as Apple create and maintain many jobs and are a huge stimulant for the economy. That isn't taken into account with "fair share" hoopla.

Apple create a lot of jobs in China, helping to stimulate the Chinese economy. Not sure how that stimulates the US economy though. Maybe if Apple decided to move manufacturing to the US...

 

[Dmunjal]

Apple create a lot of jobs in China, helping to stimulate the Chinese economy. Not sure how that stimulates the US economy though. Maybe if Apple decided to move manufacturing to the US...

You should come to Cupertino. Apple millionaires driving up real estate and keeping the restaurant business booming. Not to mention construction of the new campus.

 

[Macboy Pro]

I wonder how these 50% are able to live in the US without ever have to pay any sales tax. That's just amazing!

The other possibility might be that you're wrong.

What do you think?

Income Tax, jack wagon!

 

[Macboy Pro]

oh you bought the lie the right wing shoves out in droves. A lie proven wrong so many times.

lets see most of that bottom 50% pays payroll tax
Sales tax,
Property tax (either directly or indirectly threw rent)
gas tax ect.

Yet you keep shoving that same lie time and time again.

top 1% also own a lot more than 30% of the wealth in this country so you will not see me shed a tear for them.

But then again you are shoving out the same lie that has been proven wrong multiple times over which tells me you are just spreading FUD you have ZERO understanding.

If we can chalk up one success of the last 5 years, it would be that Liberal democratic policies fail. They failed in the late 70's, the late 90's, and now for the last 5 years.

In your response to me, you pulled a typical liberal lie. You change the topic, gave unrelated facts, and never even responded to my post. Try investigating for yourself and stop following the leader...

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Disingenuous statement. Zero taxes? People pay gasoline taxes, sales taxes, excise taxes (indirectly but paid), Federal and State and Local Payroll taxes, Local school and property taxes, etc.

Sweeping generalizations are immature and sensational. Just be rational and say that certain citizens pay more taxes than others. The zero tax statement makes you seem obtuse.

OK, you are incorrect, period. For example... A person/family that makes $40k-$50k a year will pay nearly zero income tax and then when they file, they will get a return that includes a crapload of credits back based on income, children/dependents, etc... These credits back will offset the sales tax and other misc taxes they paid over the year. They pay nearly, if not completely ZERO taxes. Its a joke and pathetic...

Then you get a politician that gets up and says the rich should pay their fair share. And all the takers, line up and take the lemmings walk!!

 

[rMBA13]

A message to Mr. President Barrack Obama: Please end double taxation for corporations if you want more jobs in the USA! Double taxation is making US companies less competitive and increase burdens to succeed internationally.

 

[Macboy Pro]

lol trolling hard

frankly, your ignorance is very clear from this post.

Thank you for the intelligent post...

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The man pays $7 million in tax and feels he should pay more because he can afford it. An entire generation of a family won't pay anywhere near that sum, but what they do pay they can much less easily afford.

Here you go, the liberal hypocrisy in full force. If he feels he should pay more, then be my guest. Pay more... Does he? Of course not and if they passed a law like he talks about, he will still look to pay as little as he has to. Why? because he really does not feel he should pay more. He feels others who have his kind of money, should pay more.

Liberals = Rules for everyone else.

What a joke...

 

[marksman]

They also take more from the US economy than I would in 1000 lifetimes. They get more money in R&D tax breaks than I'll ever earn.

And then they go and pay some ridiculous low share of tax. That has an effect on me. It means I need to pay more (a lot more, since as you mentioned, they are on a much larger scale).

They may pay more in than I ever will, but they also do more damage than I ever could.



Apple takes serious advantage of all the benefits the US (and other countries) give to them and their employees. We let them do business here and make profits here for one thing; no country is obliged to let them do that.

We let them do those things because they are supposed to pay a fair rate for those benefits. They don't. They are freeloading.

Apple pays taxes equal to ~4 million of you. This money overseas has also already been fully taxed by the country where the product was sold.

This would be like you bringing home your 1500 dollar a month pay check (after taxes) and your local librarian demanding you pay an additional $200 before you can use your money at your house.

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Quick head count. How many here pay greater taxes than they're legally obligated to?

Actually if you saw the average persons return as they run it through turbo tax they are overpaying, they just do not know it.

 

[marksman]

You don't make a profit without taking more from an economy than you invest. Are you saying 1.9% is a fair contribution that Apple makes to all of its combined international markets (most of which they don't even pay any tax in as revenue is channeled to other countries)?

1.9% is not tax, it's spare change. I would call that freeloading, especially considering all of the subsidies and tax relief arrangements they are given.

Clearly some of you have never owned a business. Corporate tax law is extensive and encompassing. There are so many factors involved that you can not judge tax payment based on a couple of returns. I have had years where I legally paid a smaller percentage given write offs, incentives and carry overs.

It is unlikely apple is circumventing the tax laws in any way. They are using the rules and laws given to them.

One year, because I was not profitable the previous year so I did not have to make quarterly payments, I cautiously deposited regular sums of money into a savings account that was left alone to pay year end taxes. It ended up being a significant sum of money but by the time I did my taxes , all above board, owed only a tiny fraction of the money put aside.

I personally do not take risks with the IRS because they are the only ones who can really mess up your life. However even if you do everything above board you can still reduce your tax burden substantially.

I know several people who do tax returns for a living , independently, and almost every single person is overpaying before they get educated help by people who actually know the tax laws. The majority of people who do their own taxes are paying too much.

These corporations pay people who know what they are doing a lot of money to reduce their tax burden. The laws are what they are. I don't think anyone shouid pay more than they owe. I think individuals should seek out a qualified tax preparer (not hr block or something as you might find a really good one there but it is unlikely as the good ones leave and do it on their own) and pay the two hundred bucks and find they save that much or likely more.

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It is also unfair to small companies who don't have a global presence.

That has nothing to do with anything. Apple pays taxes in those other countries. In some cases their effective tax rate is higher than in the US. Local companies are not subject to double taxation on the same income.

 

[pirg]

Actually if you saw the average persons return as they run it through turbo tax they are overpaying, they just do not know it.

True. I of course meant voluntarily which is what people suggest apple do

 

[marksman]

Not to mention companies that can't shift where their sales are booked that easily.

For example, I read recently that Wal-Mart pays a rate of tax nearly double what Apple pay. Wal-Mart can't move their patent licensing operations overseas and stash the profits there.

I also read recently that US companies have over $1.3 Trillion stashed overseas for "overseas investments". Nearly half of that money is cash, which means it isn't really being used for any investments; it's just sitting there to avoid tax.

What are you talking about? All these companies "book" their sales where they take place.

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You don't get my meaning. I'm saying, the cost of operating a business is deductible, while a you can't deduct the cost of your groceries, gas, housing, etc. from your taxes like a business can.

Any individual in the top tax bracket paying more than 20% in effective tax rate is doing it wrong.

Heck the lowest personal income tax rate is negative and they actually pay you money via the earned income tax credit.

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What does Tim Cook know about tax code anyway? I would think Apple has someone who deals with this who could better explain things. Or I guess they could just give Tim the cliff notes to read from.

Any business owner or CEO should know an awful lot about taxes. It is a key aspect of running any business.

 

[GFLPraxis]

BS, none of it taxed. If any portion was taxed locally, Apple would not pay tax in US on that portion. Same rule applies to individual income. Do not mix retail sales taxes paid by consumers with corporate tax on profit.

This is absolutely not the case. I'm a dual citizen. The U.S. will tax you on your earned income overseas. Other countries, however, will not.

For example, if you are a dual U.S./German citizen, you will pay only U.S. income taxes on income earned in the U.S., but German + U.S. income taxes on income earned in Germany.

Link.

 

[MegamanX]

If we can chalk up one success of the last 5 years, it would be that Liberal democratic policies fail. They failed in the late 70's, the late 90's, and now for the last 5 years.

In your response to me, you pulled a typical liberal lie. You change the topic, gave unrelated facts, and never even responded to my post. Try investigating for yourself and stop following the leader...

me changing the topic. I proved your entire starting point 50% pay no taxes is a complete lie and FUD.

Now lets see the past 5 years have been recovering GOP mess. Mid 90's oh look yet another GOP mess.
Late 90's things were going great. So again how is this helping anything.

you are getting caught up in lies and false hoods again.
But then again you are trying to shove the same lies and your entire argument is based on lies and BS.

 

[AidenShaw]

Just the facts, Ma'am

A message to Mr. President Barrack Obama: Please end double taxation for corporations if you want more jobs in the USA! Double taxation is making US companies less competitive and increase burdens to succeed internationally.

Apple pays taxes equal to ~4 million of you. This money overseas has also already been fully taxed by the country where the product was sold.

There is no double taxation involved. A corporation gets credit for foreign taxes paid - if the foreign nation has a higher tax rate than the US, no additional taxes are due.

If the foreign nation has a lower tax rate than the US, the difference is due to the US. (For example, it the foreign earnings have been taxed at 15%, and the US rate is 20% - then 5% additional would be due.)

The majority of these earnings, however, are held in countries with little or no tax. It's not a case of "selling a Mac Pro in Germany" (which they can't anymore) and paying German taxes on the sale of goods.

It's a case of routing soft earnings like royalties and licensing fees to "tax haven" states, and not paying anywhere close to the US tax rate.

 

[terraphantm]

Any individual in the top tax bracket paying more than 20% in effective tax rate is doing it wrong.

Educate me. How does a salaried worker in the top tax bracket avoid paying more than 20%?

 

[AaronEdwards]

Income Tax, jack wagon!

That was not the argument. The argument was that 50% didn't pay ANY taxes at all. And you can thank Ronald Reagan for the fact that a lot of people don't pay any income taxes.

Also, if you add up all taxes being paid, a lot of those who don't pay any income taxes due to low wages, will still have a higher tax percentage than those being in the 1%, 5%, 10% of earners.