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If you really can’t see the difference between me choosing to do a thing to my device that lowers its security and them choosing to do a thing to my device that lowers its security, then, well, I don’t know what to tell you.
What's funny is that you are arguing in favor for them to do something to your device to lower its security.
 
Also has much more malware.
I guess that depends on how you define “much.”

Apple recently patched a few actively exploited security vulnerabilities that gave threat actors total access to iOS devices without even requiring user interaction. They’ve patched many such exploits. Eventually.

An estimated 2% of the top-grossing App Store apps are outright scams, from which Apple has profited tens of millions of dollars.

The myth of iOS‘s amazing security might be persistent, but it has little basis in reality.
 
What you're arguing for is more akin to at situation where Apple already had 2fa, but users wanted to not have to have 2fa (more choice!), so Apple allowed you to not have 2fa, which led to decreased security and harmed users. That's what opening up for side loading would be --- a decrease in security in the name of choice.
Except the choice in this case would be to reduce the security, not to forego enabling 2fa

Either way, it's a personal choice that Apple shouldn't be making for everyone.
 
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An estimated 2% of the top-grossing App Store apps are outright scams, from which Apple has profited tens of millions of dollars.

Few months ago I was in search of a simple metronome for home use. This is what I got from AppStore


Look at the reviews, it's all true.
 
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." Thing is, I trust apple to do this right and I'm disappointed they won't even entertain the idea. I'd happily welcome a gatekeeper style thing that required non app store apps to be digitally signed, with a cert that could be revoked if they turned out the be a bad actor. There's ways to do this that are safe. Apple has a lot of smart engineers.

- If you use a 3rd party browser on your phone you're still using webkit (not chromium) due to Apple's strange rules.
- You can't even download an app that would let you remotely control a computer like a windows machine in the cloud because reasons?
- Same with remotely playing a video game. You can do this if you own a console and are on your home network but the minute you want to do it via the cloud its a no no. (PWA only so not app store allowed apps I know)

To me these are totally dumb restrictions that could be worked around with sidloading. There are others I'm sure but those are at the forefront as being really dumb app store restrictions.
 
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Many of the people raising concern were well known privacy advocates and foundations. I believe there was even a blog post from a security researcher who reverse-engineered their hashing system in a couple of weeks to get a blurry version of the supposedly encrypted image.
Most of what happened was piggy-backing on Snowden's initial reaction. What made the whole thing blow out of proportion was that the authors of a paper dealing with similar technology came out and said it was dangerous, but it was clear they were looking for some fame: their paper suggested a safe way to do it, which is exactly what Apple was proposing in its white paper.

The "security researcher" you're references was iirc in a reddit thread, and it wasn't Apple's hashing system, but a placeholder system loosely connected to microsoft's algorithm.
So for one app, it's two hoops. For two, it's three hoops. So the number of hoops is never less than two. Can we at least agree on that.
Sure, if we want pedantically define the number of hoops you jump through to be commutative, then there are multiple hoops equal to a single hoop per app (the first app there is the single hoop of enabling in system prefs).

However, if we use normal language, then in the general case, there is a simple and singular "open anyway" prompt when trying to open an app from outside the app store.
 
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I guess that depends on how you define “much.”

Apple recently patched a few actively exploited security vulnerabilities that gave threat actors total access to iOS devices without even requiring user interaction. They’ve patched many such exploits. Eventually.

An estimated 2% of the top-grossing App Store apps are outright scams, from which Apple has profited tens of millions of dollars.

The myth of iOS‘s amazing security might be persistent, but it has little basis in reality.
Apple patching actively exploited security vulnerabilities regularly has nothing to do with the ratio of active malware on iOS:Android.
 
Few months ago I was in search of a simple metronome for home use. This is what I got from AppStore


Look at the reviews, it's all true.
Oh, wow. That's horrible.

You know, maybe their whole "stay in the walled garden" thing wouldn't be so bad if it weren't so choked with weeds.
 
Except the choice in this case would be to reduce the security, not to forego enabling 2fa

Either way, it's a personal choice that Apple shouldn't be making for everyone.
Again, you're arguing that it would be better if Apple allowed users to not use 2fa? That's a choice Apple is making for everyone currently.
 
Few months ago I was in search of a simple metronome for home use. This is what I got from AppStore


Look at the reviews, it's all true.
These are the legitimate concerns the app store still faces. Apps like these should simply not exist on the app store.
 
Apple patching actively exploited security vulnerabilities regularly has nothing to do with the ratio of active malware on iOS:Android.
Malware is malware. iOS devices have succumbed to a great deal of it over the years. They're not magical. But Apple users tend to have a super distorted view of what Android is actually like, so it's not surprise to see someone else pushing that same, tired silliness.

Hundreds of millions of people use Android every day without issue and have done so for many years.
 
I'm going by think first, then act.

But where is that huge attack vector on macOS, Windows, Linux, Android or Android-based systems?
I'm not talking about 1990s Windows, but modern OS'. Most security related problems today are PEBKAC problems. Or is that the problem Apple is trying to solve when not allowing sideloading? Protecting the "idiots" in a similar way we need warnings that coffee is hot or not to put a hamster in a microwave?

Maybe, yes. If that's the case, let's call it that. ?

You are aware of the huge amount of malware on those platforms?

Apple has always emphasised the normal, non-technical users. The lock downed nature of the entire iOS ecosystem benefits users who don't know what they are doing. And it is a good thing they have such a system.

People who wants to manage their own devices and take care of their own security can seek other solutions.
 
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These are the legitimate concerns the app store still faces. Apps like these should simply not exist on the app store.
This isn't a legitimate concern the App Store still faces, this is a choice Apple has made.

If that stupid app actually does trick someone into paying $10/month to get it to freaking close and give them their computer back, Apple takes its cut off the top and considers it a job well done.

If not, why is that app and so many other scams still in the store?

Oh, that's right. Because Apple has earned tens of millions of dollars that way and free money is free money, right?
 
Malware is malware. iOS devices have succumbed to a great deal of it over the years. They're not magical. But Apple users tend to have a super distorted view of what Android is actually like, so it's not surprise to see someone else pushing that same, tired silliness.

Hundreds of millions of people use Android every day without issue and have done so for many years.
You're having a hard time understanding what I'm saying.

Let me be clear: iOS users suffer from malware. I know this fact. Also, Android users suffer from malware -- I presume you know this. What I'm saying is that the research on the amount of active malware proportional to user base suggests that Android users suffer from malware more often than iOS users.
 
Most of what happened was piggy-backing on Snowden's initial reaction. What made the whole thing blow out of proportion was that the authors of a paper dealing with similar technology came out and said it was dangerous, but it was clear they were looking for some fame: their paper suggested a safe way to do it, which is exactly what Apple was proposing in its white paper.

The "security researcher" you're references was iirc in a reddit thread, and it wasn't Apple's hashing system, but a placeholder system loosely connected to microsoft's algorithm.
That doesn't make any of their concerns less valid though. As for the researcher, it may have also been on Reddit but that's not where I saw it. I wish I could find the article now. If I do, I'll drop a link.

Sure, if we want pedantically define the number of hoops you jump through to be commutative, then there are multiple hoops equal to a single hoop per app (the first app there is the single hoop of enabling in system prefs).

However, if we use normal language, then in the general case, there is a simple and singular "open anyway" prompt when trying to open an app from outside the app store.
Even then, there's still an extra step with clearly written warnings every time you want to install an app. And all of this is still only if you actively choose to use sideloading at all. Which you absolutely don't have to.

So you're essentially complaining that you don't want a feature that you'll never have to use and won't impact you at all included on you phone because you don't want someone else to use it on their phone. I just don't understand how that's a valid argument to you.
 
This isn't a legitimate concern the App Store still faces, this is a choice Apple has made.

If that stupid app actually does trick someone into paying $10/month to get it to freaking close and give them their computer back, Apple takes its cut off the top and considers it a job well done.

If not, why is that app and so many other scams still in the store?

Oh, that's right. Because Apple has earned tens of millions of dollars that way and free money is free money, right?
What's funny is that app is on the mac app store. If/when apple is made aware of the situation, and the app is blocked from the app store, then the owner could simply let you download it from their own server, and the users would have no issues installing it.
 
Timmy just trying to prepare people for Apple's imminent attempt to lock down Macs.
 
What's funny is that app is on the mac app store. If/when apple is made aware of the situation, and the app is blocked from the app store, then the owner could simply let you download it from their own server, and the users would have no issues installing it.
Tsk tsk. Perish the thought. If Apple did that they wouldn't get their cut! Nah. Much better to leave it where it is.

Which is why it's still there, 5 years later.
 
The day that happens would be the day I leave macOS.

Edit: just to add why should side loading be stopped if the Mac App Store magically managed to do this?

You don't need side loading when every application is in the store.
The store provides one unified way to find, pay, download and uninstall software.
 
You don't need side loading when every application is in the store.
The store provides one unified way to find, pay, download and uninstall software.
lol no. there are things installed on my mac that are not "apps" nor would they ever be in the store as they are development tools and have far more access to parts of this system than a neutered app store app has.
 
You're having a hard time understanding what I'm saying.

Let me be clear: iOS users suffer from malware. I know this fact. Also, Android users suffer from malware -- I presume you know this. What I'm saying is that the research on the amount of active malware proportional to user base suggests that Android users suffer from malware more often than iOS users.
The Android malware problem is way overblown, especially by iOS devotees. But, even still, so what if it weren't? Windows has been just eat up with malware for decades and I've been a Windows user and a Mac user for a long time now.

You know how much malware I've been impacted by?

None.

Because I'm not an idiot who clicks on every suspicious link someone emails me or hangs out on shady websites downloading and installing every shiny thing that catches my eye.

The only sort of malware that worries me is the kind I mentioned earlier, like those exploits Apple just patched that didn't even require user interaction. All you had to do was visit an innocuous-looking webpage and they owned you.
 
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