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Tim Cook's Email to Apple Staff Regarding Supplier Responsibility Report
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You know factory level worker bee positions aren't what concern me in terms of outsourcing. They're mind numbing jobs that are likely to be mostly cannibalized by mechanical labor at some point. What concerns me is seeing things like engineering positions and other skilled jobs go out of the US. Crap like that will kill these companies from the ground up as they grow their own future competition.
I am not American, and I am not willing to pay $200 for an Apple product so that it is "made in the USA).
Hell even most Americans would refuse to do the same.
I'm not dismissing any of your points, but assuming parts sourced from the US as well, you could walk away with superior manufacturing to what we have today even if with an identical visual appearance. The trend toward junk products has been ongoing for a very long time.
You have no clue about the intricacies of running a factory of that magnitude in USA.
Some people with insight already made a few points.
This "produce in America" comes up all the time.
1) Apple is in the development and product creation business. They do not want or need to own a factory.
2) The labor forces mass assembly requires are not available in the US and would certainly not all go to US workers.
See Cato institute study.
3) What would happen if they produced here with say 50,000 people and a product tanks? Factory closes. 50,000 people on the street.
There is no guarantee that they will always have the next great product.
4) The US laws are totally business unfriendly, hence many US companies do not produce here and do not even bring their foreign profits back into this country. (Double taxation)
I could go on and on, but to simply state Apple should produce in the US is an extremely uneducated and simplistic viewpoint.
To the people who scream GREED, please note that the purpose of a business is to make money and as much of it as possible.
In that sense shareholders are all greedy, as they want the stocks to rise , get dividends etc.
And lastly, test yourselves honestly. Stand in front of similar products, one Made in America and one Made in a Foreign country.
You will always pick the American made item that is more expensive , right?
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Now how about Apple do something really good and build a manufacturing plant in California and help the economy at home.
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Corporations will do ANYTHING to make more money. If it made them money to kill millions of people they would do it in a heart beat. The only reason they do good things is for good PR, tax right offs, and creating products/services people pay for which helps them make more money.
Anything they do positive or negative is only to make more money. They don't care about anything else at all.
Thunderhawks said:
Corporations will do ANYTHING to make more money. If it made them money to kill millions of people they would do it in a heart beat. The only reason they do good things is for good PR, tax right offs, and creating products/services people pay for which helps them make more money.
Anything they do positive or negative is only to make more money. They don't care about anything else at all.
I don't think anything different is going on today compared to years past.
Here's a MacRumors article from two years ago, Feb 2010.
https://www.macrumors.com/2010/02/2...l-progress-report-on-supplier-responsibility/
It talks about Apple publishing the Supplier Responsibility Progress Report on the front page of their website. Apple is making it public today just as much as they made it public in years past.
Here's something to give a glimpse of SJ's thoughts on this matter. TC echoed those thoughts, and appears to be following the same philosophy today.
From http://www.appleinsider.com/article...eporting_partners_child_labor_violations.html , again Feb 2010.
"During most of our audits," the report said, "suppliers stated that Apple was the only company that had ever audited their facility for supplier responsibility."
Cook, Jobs address supplier responsibility
Apple chief operations officer Tim Cook repeated that fact on stage at the company's shareholder meeting, but insisted that the company doesn't need to trumpet its vanguard position in pushing overseas companies to achieve higher standards in human rights, train their employees to be aware of their rights, and maintain safe working conditions.
Cook said Apple does this not for media attention, but "because it is the right thing to do." Chief executive Steve Jobs echoed the same sentiments, passionately arguing that the media and environmental groups have ignored the real issues to focus mainly on what promises companies were making, even though many companies do not actually meet their promised goals.
Apple, Jobs said, was focused on actually achieving results. By taking real action ranging from reducing its product packaging, increasing efficiency and enhancing recyclability, to auditing its own facilities and supplying partners' factories, to publishing details on the environmental footprint of its products, Apple is pioneering social responsibility in a way that customers will see for themselves and support, Jobs maintained.
If I'd have known China would have caused this much trouble I'd put together my own damn products!
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I'm done with this conversation. I'm moving to Mexico when I retire because the USA will be dead by then.
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I'm done with this conversation. I'm moving to Mexico when I retire because the USA will be dead by then.
Agreed. Now that Apples got enough capital built up, it's time to make good on their success. They of all companies can afford to put some into production engineering here, in the US, still the worlds #1 biggest manufacturing country. Our strength is in engineering sophisticated automated processes. Chinas strength is that its labor is artificially undervalued, and there is no way that can last. If your products very viability is dependent on an abundance of free manual labor, then you have an incomplete product, and one in deep trouble.
The rest of us in mfg, and in companies, even industries with a hell of a lot tighter margins than electronic toys, can make it work. For a company with such a narrow product line, there's no excuse.
It is great but it would be nice if he was as concerned about his retail employees. Allowing Work Place Bullies in Apple management at retail stores is the utmost abuse. Work place bullies are hard to catch because they are devious but even harder to catch when HR protects them. Our local store has had the entire original staff "Managed Out" by a work place bully in less then a year. That is dozens of dedicated and well trained employees that were abused because of one person. THAT is right here in our backyard.
My point is relative to the present, not the past. I'd rather focus on what's being done today, it's a far more productive use of time. Time waits for no man, the Steve Jobs Era has passed.
Tim Cook is doing a fine job, and I choose to recognize & celebrate that fact. I have no interest in being negative.
Do we really need this garbage?
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..and promptly watch Apple get eviscerated. Brilliant idea. It's economically impossible, regardless of the lala land you live in. They'll be bleeding $$ every second. You think consumers will be willing to make up the difference? The answer is no.
Actually ...
Actually, I think Apple could build products in America. They have sufficient brainpower to design and I think they could figure out how to build stuff here at no additional cost (and perhaps a few Apple designed robots).
Actually, I think Apple could build products in America. They have sufficient brainpower to design and I think they could figure out how to build stuff here at no additional cost (and perhaps a few Apple designed robots).
Not true, the feds offered money to the big 3. Dodge and GM accepted, Ford declined and dug themselves out.
Here's why it's happening now: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...abor-group-after-foxconn-worker-suicides.html
Yes.. let's not be greedy, let's keep all the manufacturing and suppliers in America so only America benefits. Oh wait.
For all you "Made in the US of A" folk, do you not understand the tremendous benefit that overseas outsourcing has on developing nations? Would you rather people in China still be living in slums instead of apartments? Have you ever stepped outside of your nation and seen how terribly poor and in need of jobs some nations are? Open your eyes, there's more to the world than America. And don't even think for a moment that Apple doesn't bring tremendous financial benefit to America.
EDIT: Just wanted to say a bit more. By Apple going overseas and contending with issues like child labour, then telling suppliers that they will boycott them if they continue to use child labour, they're making a positive change. Much better than sticking your head in the sand by only producing domestically. You think USA-only production is going to stop child labour overseas?
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Have a read of the report - Apple also conducts surprise audits, and given the number of infringements to their policies, I'd say their audits are doing a great job. As someone else mentioned, they've even dropped some suppliers.
Why give a negative rating?
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I'll make a compromise, instead of bringing the jobs back to the USA, setup shop right on the Mexico side of the border in cities like Nuevo Laredo, Nogales, Mexicali, and Tijuana. That will help keep the illegals from crossing over and stealing American jobs and benefits that they are not entitled to. Transportation will be much cheaper and those who still cross the border illegally will have money to spend in the USA.
You Can't Undo the Global Economy
As many people on this board I too used to feel that companies like Apple should bring more jobs home to the US. However, after doing some research and hearing some experts on the subject that boat has sailed. We can still be a force in the Global Markets. Instead of focusing on on our weakness, we should be focusing on our strengths.
The US is very good at innovation, bringing new ideas and technology into the world. Apple is a great example of that, they employ many Engineers, Design people, and software and hardware folks. The key to the future of the US is education. We need to get our young people educated, make it affordable for them, get them interested in science and math so they can be our next generation of innovators.
The other thing we can do is ensure that these other countries are playing by the rules. The standard of living has improved greatly in China and India, but it isn't as high as it should be. The Chinese keep their currency artificially low so they can pay their factory workers $50 per week. Our government needs to make sure that these countries abide by the agreements we make with them.
I was disturbed about the working conditions, particularly at Foxconn. I hope that Tim's letter is genuine and Apple as well as other US and foreign companies follow through with this. I guess only time will tell if they are serious about this.
As many people on this board I too used to feel that companies like Apple should bring more jobs home to the US. However, after doing some research and hearing some experts on the subject that boat has sailed. We can still be a force in the Global Markets. Instead of focusing on on our weakness, we should be focusing on our strengths.
The US is very good at innovation, bringing new ideas and technology into the world. Apple is a great example of that, they employ many Engineers, Design people, and software and hardware folks. The key to the future of the US is education. We need to get our young people educated, make it affordable for them, get them interested in science and math so they can be our next generation of innovators.
The other thing we can do is ensure that these other countries are playing by the rules. The standard of living has improved greatly in China and India, but it isn't as high as it should be. The Chinese keep their currency artificially low so they can pay their factory workers $50 per week. Our government needs to make sure that these countries abide by the agreements we make with them.
I was disturbed about the working conditions, particularly at Foxconn. I hope that Tim's letter is genuine and Apple as well as other US and foreign companies follow through with this. I guess only time will tell if they are serious about this.
swingerofbirch
macrumors 68040
What is interesting and unspoken is that the need for an "update on conditions in Apple's supply chain" tacitly admits what everyone knowsand not just about Applewhich is that we are living in an era similar to the Gilded Era and afterward, except that the abuses are taking place in foreign countries on our behalf (and also for the sake of Chinese businesses and the Chinese government). I think it's good that Apple and other people talk about it. I think it's also interesting that we live with it and accept it to a very large extentto the extent that I would imagine there are very few people who avoid buying products where there was potential abuse of human workers. I myself am not one of those people who stops myself from buying Apple products for that reason; although, I certainly am a bit tickled when I can buy something made in the US.
I didn't want to make a joke about this, but when I read the quote, "It is like innovating in products. You can focus on things that are barriers or you can focus on scaling the wall or redefining the problem," I had an image in my head of the Chinese workers trying to scale the walls of the buildings they work in and how on the other side of their walls there are actual suicide nets now.
I honestly don't know as much about the working conditions as I would like to. I remember seeing a video once that seemed to imply the Chinese government picked or selected people to work at the Foxconn plants--like it's a private company but the government recruited for it. Obviously the image of wanting to scale a wall to escape Foxconn makes it sound like forced work without the ability to leave, but I am not sure that it is. I'd like to know more about how free people are to leave the jobs if they want to. Or if the suicides are not so much about not being able to physically leave but about not having any other options besides this type of factory work.
I'm not sure, but I think that may have occurred in the US in the past--that workers would be locked into the factory for the day (I have a vague recollection about a fire where the underage workers couldn't escape and died because they had locked all the doors and windows of the factory).
Anyhow, I wish I understood all of the international affairs and politics better so I could have a stronger opinion on the solution to all this.
I didn't want to make a joke about this, but when I read the quote, "It is like innovating in products. You can focus on things that are barriers or you can focus on scaling the wall or redefining the problem," I had an image in my head of the Chinese workers trying to scale the walls of the buildings they work in and how on the other side of their walls there are actual suicide nets now.
I honestly don't know as much about the working conditions as I would like to. I remember seeing a video once that seemed to imply the Chinese government picked or selected people to work at the Foxconn plants--like it's a private company but the government recruited for it. Obviously the image of wanting to scale a wall to escape Foxconn makes it sound like forced work without the ability to leave, but I am not sure that it is. I'd like to know more about how free people are to leave the jobs if they want to. Or if the suicides are not so much about not being able to physically leave but about not having any other options besides this type of factory work.
I'm not sure, but I think that may have occurred in the US in the past--that workers would be locked into the factory for the day (I have a vague recollection about a fire where the underage workers couldn't escape and died because they had locked all the doors and windows of the factory).
Anyhow, I wish I understood all of the international affairs and politics better so I could have a stronger opinion on the solution to all this.
Sorry your country can't come up with products the whole world wants. I can care less for what other countries want right now, ours is in trouble, so everyone else is not on my list of immediate concern. And yes, spoken like a true American.