Time Machine error

[svenmany]

When I turn my iPhone 16 ProMax off overnight, TimeMachine backups complete without issue whilst screen is asleep. But when iPhone is on, backups fail. I think this a FindMy conflict issue. I have the FindMy widget on my desktop. Mac Mini M4 Pro.

That was certainly one of the exclusions I had to make for Time Machine to work when the computer is locked. One of the files which prevented a backup was in ~/Library/Containers/com.apple.findmy.FindMyWidgetItems/.

However, I don't have any FindMy widget anywhere on my Mac. It could be that using Find My on my iPhone when the computer is locked could trigger it.

For the last month, I've not had a single issue since adding the backup exclusions:

~/Library/Containers, ~/Library/Biome, ~/Library/Daemon Containers

 

[justiny]

I hate writing this for fear of jinxing it, but I'm going to anyways.

I've been running the 15.3 RC beta for 24 hours, and TimeMachine is performing normally, as expected. Automatic hourly updates regardless of lock or screensaver status on my M1 Pro MBP 16 inch.

My backstory on this bug is in post #66 of this thread. Long story short, I have researched every potential fix and workaround since September's 15.0 public release with no luck at all.

My hope is 15.3 is the permanent fix for everyone and this thread can finally die.

 

[southerndoc]

This seems to be happening way less with 15.3 RC.

 

[kagharaht]

Just to provide an update to this thread. The error just popped up on my iMac M3. It hasn't done that since December 1. So the error didn't occur for quite some time.

 

[EugW]

I had posted this in another thread but I’ll repost here.

In the last couple of weeks I have been very occasionally getting this problem, on Sequoia 15.2 on my M4 Mac mini. I did not have this problem with my M1 Mac mini before I switched to the M4. It's frustrating. Like with the others here, it seems to happen only when my Mac is locked. Backup works just fine if I'm working on the machine and the Mac is unlocked.

I tried wiping and reformatting my Time Machine drive (external USB 4 drive) but it made no difference. Note that I am backing up not only my internal drive, but also another external USB 4 data drive (not the Time Machine one).

Also, this may be coincidental, but I do note that it started happening after I moved my external USB 4 data drive to a Thunderbolt 4 / USB 4 hub. Previously when that drive had been connected directly to the Mac, I didn't encounter this error. If macOS 15.3 doesn’t fix this then perhaps I will try directly connecting it to the Mac again to see if that changes anything.

What are your setups, and are you using external drives?

 

[kagharaht]

Confirming that this error is NOT FIXED! MBA M2 15" updated to Mac OS 15.3. Set to NEVER SLEEP. Screen does turn off after 10 min and auto locks. Apple has not fixed this. Instead they pour their resources to Genmoji.

 

[kirbyrun]

My hope is 15.3 is the permanent fix for everyone and this thread can finally die.

Sadly...

I had this bug. I turned off my FindMy widget and the problem went away.

Then I updated to 15.3 and the problem came back, even though I still don't have the FindMy widget turned on.

So...the bug is now an improved version of itself...?

 

[gilby101]

For the last month, I've not had a single issue since adding the backup exclusions:

~/Library/Containers, ~/Library/Biome, ~/Library/Daemon Containers

Doing that will compromise a seamless recovery using Migration Assistant. Maybe not for Biome. Better to find out which files/folders inside are causing the problem. ~/Library/Containers includes application data for many sandboxed apps - so really do want to backup that.

 

[justiny]

Confirming that this error is NOT FIXED! MBA M2 15" updated to Mac OS 15.3. Set to NEVER SLEEP. Screen does turn off after 10 min and auto locks. Apple has not fixed this. Instead they pour their resources to Genmoji.

Sadly...

I had this bug. I turned off my FindMy widget and the problem went away.

Then I updated to 15.3 and the problem came back, even though I still don't have the FindMy widget turned on.

So...the bug is now an improved version of itself...?

So… Looks like I indeed screwed this up and jinxed it. My apologies, everyone.

I was away from work but returned to the exact same error prompt/notification after 15.3 update. For me, it stayed away for a few days and today it seems a little less frequent, but that really doesn’t matter. Bottom line is Apple has not fixed this.

This is so beyond infuriating. I don’t understand how a MacOS bug has made it through an entire summer beta season and it’s almost February with no fix.

But thank god I have image playground on my Mac now. 🙄

 

[kirbyrun]

This is so beyond infuriating. I don’t understand how a MacOS bug has made it through an entire summer beta season and it’s almost February with no fix.

It's doubly galling because Time Machine is so important! There's really no room or excuse for this kind of glitch. (And for me, TM has been rock-solid since I started using it back in the Leopard days, which makes this really shocking!)

 

[justiny]

It's doubly galling because Time Machine is so important! There's really no room or excuse for this kind of glitch. (And for me, TM has been rock-solid since I started using it back in the Leopard days, which makes this really shocking!)

I couldn’t agree more. And count me in as another loyal longtime user of Time Machine (Snow Leopard for me; best OS ever). It’s been reliably and quietly running in the background with no issues for 15 years until now.

TM is such a critical feature for my work, as I absolutely need hourly updates while I go through my work day. Manual backups are a no-go for me. Also, disabling the password lock is also a non-starter.

As someone in this thread mentioned earlier, we either choose to leave our Macs unsecured or remove automated backups. One or the other. Completely unacceptable.

 

[svenmany]

Doing that will compromise a seamless recovery using Migration Assistant. Maybe not for Biome. Better to find out which files/folders inside are causing the problem. ~/Library/Containers includes application data for many sandboxed apps - so really do want to backup that.

I would never use Time Machine for recovery; I just don't trust it enough. But, you are right that there is a risk if one were to do that. I should have added that caution.

I'm not challenging your information, but do you have an example of a container that actually contains data rather than links to locations outside of the Container directory? For the most part, containers only have links and those are recreated if the container is deleted and the application started. I've tested this with a few apps. For example, BBEdit is shown as a sandboxed app in Activity Monitor, it has a folder in Containers, the folder only contains links, and the folder is recreated whenever it's deleted and then BBEdit started.

 

[gilby101]

I would never use Time Machine for recovery

In which case I wonder why you backup any of ~/Library.

I'm not challenging your information, but do you have an example of a container that actually contains data rather than links to locations outside of the Container directory? For the most part, containers only have links and those are recreated if the container is deleted and the application started. I've tested this with a few apps. For example, BBEdit is shown as a sandboxed app in Activity Monitor, it has a folder in Containers, the folder only contains links, and the folder is recreated whenever it's deleted and then BBEdit started.

I have 14.6GB in ~/Library/Containers. A fair chunk of that is caches, which are excluded by TM which has 6.8GB in the backup. To get a seamless recovery, those 6.8GB would be required. But as you don't want that, there is little that you might regard as essential. Books and other book readers are where I would lose some e-books if I haven't got copies elsewhere. I would lose data in Safari (e.g. web site related data).

So, I am agreeing with you that nearly all of Containers is non-essential unless you want a "seamless" recovery.

What is included in a backup depends on risk and recovery requirements. In my case, I regard TM as my first line of defence in the event of system wide data loss, allowing me to recover my whole system ("seamless" recovery). But I only backup a very small number of folders in ~/Library to my cloud backup which is to be used in the event of a more serious (but less likely) disaster.

 

[svenmany]

In which case I wonder why you backup any of ~/Library.

For things other than containers. For example, I've had to revert files in Preferences and Launch Agents.

I have 14.6GB in ~/Library/Containers...

Thanks for that and the rest. The clued me in to using Daisy Disk to pursue where my storage is spent in Containers. I see that there is stuff in there that I might want old versions of. I'm very happy to have been educated about that. Luckily, my rotating nightly Carbon Copy clones have me covered, though not as thoroughly as Time Machine would.

I'm going to take your advice and be more selective in my exclusions.

I regard TM as my first line of defence in the event of system wide data loss

I'm not in that boat. This thread is evidence that Time Machine is not reliable. I've had plenty of problems in the past. For example, it's happened to me that an entire Time Machine backup became unusable and I had to start fresh on the same disk. I've read plenty about this happening to other people.

If I had system wide data loss, I'd handle it in the same way as I handle setting up a new computer. I would do a clean install. Then I'd install my apps and recover non-cloud files from my clones. It's about a half a day to a day of work. If I had system wide data loss, I might wonder whether it would just happen again if I were to put the computer back into the state it was in before the loss.

I do look forward to Apple fixing the current problem. Clearly there are various background processes which can lock files in a way that they become unaccessible to Time Machine. For my purposes, I wish Time Machine would not abort the whole process; a backup with a few missing files is better than no backup at all, especially considering these files are very likely inessential. But, I see that this might be perilous for people who count on seamless recovery. For them it might be better to recover from an earlier backup that didn't lack those few files. It's hard to know.

 

[iammike1]

If y'all are only counting on Time Machine (or any other local single solution) to backup your important data, you're gambling anyway. Too many things can go wrong when you rely on a single backup solution be it bugs causing a backup problem, home fire that takes out that backup system, etc etc.

Also, no, cloud drive solutions are not backups. Never count on them as such.

If you really want to be safe, recommend on top of a local solution like Time Machine, you also use an offsite online backup solution, something designed for backups, not multi-device syncing, like BackBlaze.

That'll make for 2 independent backups using 2 different pieces of software and in 2 geo-separated locations. Then y'all don't have to be so stressed about your one backup solution having a problem.

 

[gilby101]

Also, no, cloud drive solutions are not backups. Never count on them as such.

If you really want to be safe, recommend on top of a local solution like Time Machine, you also use an offsite online backup solution, something designed for backups, not multi-device syncing, like BackBlaze.

I don't think anyone here has suggested that cloud drive syncing solutions might be backups. I use Arq to backup to OneDrive and Google Drive - in my view Arq is a better product than Backblaze for Mac users, but either is better than no offsite backup.

 

[iammike1]

I don't think anyone here has suggested that cloud drive syncing solutions might be backups. I use Arq to backup to OneDrive and Google Drive - in my view Arq is a better product than Backblaze for Mac users, but either is better than no offsite backup.

I included that caveat because so many folks out there think they are viable backup solutions...then a file gets deleted or corrupted and they don't realize it for a month or two and they go online and complain that they lost their file.

That said, I, personally, wouldn't use your setup either. Using BackBlaze I not only get unlimited backup space but for the $9 a month I pay I get 1 year retention of any files I've removed from my source machine. This includes keeping prior versions of all files for 1 year. I believe they have a slightly cheaper plan that does 3 month retention.

With the amount of data I have, using Google Drive or One Drive would be prohibitively expensive compared to BackBlaze not to mention the fact that even if that GD or OD account isn't setup to sync to anything, I don't consider them having the correct features/properties to operate as a true backup system.

In the end though, people will choose the system they want. I just wish more folks valued the importance of having a 2nd backup system off-site of any kind.

I just wanted to comment on folks that were putting all their faith in Time Machine alone.

I'll shut up now and let this return to topic.

That said, my fix that I posted pages ago is still working for me even post 15.3 update. If I add a FindMy widget back to my homescreen it breaks again but following steps I posted it fixed it back good again. I understand not everyones error is the same as mine was but I've seen several who seem to be having the same error as me that obviously haven't read all the threads.

 

[YatBob]

Following, have the same issue, resorted to doing a manual backup daily

 

[alexclst]

Came back for me too, after 15.3, but not right away. Reading this made me want to try excluding all other Apple-supplied widget containers for widgets I use (especially a widget I just started using). Just did that. Back up automatically daily, so will find out in the next day or so if that helps.

 

[ThrowerGB]

Since updating to Sequoia my Time Machine backups have been failing during night. Every time I wake up the display, I get the same error: "Time Machine did not finish backing up because some files were unavailable. Backups will resume when your Mac is unlocked." My Mac actually never sleeps; I only put the display to sleep. The next backup after waking the display always works.
Anyone is having the same problem?

It just started happening to me today. Hasn't ever happened before. I may have fiddled with some security settings yesterday but I didn't write down what I did.
The problem appeared after I had my machine running over night but with Lock Screen set. I logged in normally, the Studio display came on as usual then I got the dreaded message. I've Shut Down completely but didn't turn off power to any parts of the system, then Restarted. But to no avail. Then it happened again pretty quickly.
I've watched this thread occasionally since @Jamacfer 👏 first posted. TimeMachine is an important part of my setup. Thanks to all of you for commenting, I'll look through the thread and see what's been said so far.

I'm running Sequoia 15.3 on Mac Studio M1 Max 32GB 2TB, with two WD 10TB hard drives (one is has 4.6 TB used, the other has 6.92 TB used) attached to a USB extender, which is attached to a single USB port on the Studio. They're used as A and B TimeMachine disks backing up alternatively every hour.
The extender has 5 ports, two are used by the TM disks and they each have their own power adapters. Interestingly I'd plugged in external portable speaker into a 3rd in order to charge it. It's drawing power from the extender and therefore the Studio USB port.)

 

[ThrowerGB]

It just started happening to me today. Hasn't ever happened before. I may have fiddled with some security settings yesterday but I didn't write down what I did.
The problem appeared after I had my machine running over night but with Lock Screen set. I logged in normally, the Studio display came on as usual then I got the dreaded message. I've Shut Down completely but didn't turn off power to any parts of the system, then Restarted. But to no avail. Then it happened again pretty quickly.
I've watched this thread occasionally since @Jamacfer 👏 first posted. TimeMachine is an important part of my setup. Thanks to all of you for commenting, I'll look through the thread and see what's been said so far.

I'm running Sequoia 15.3 on Mac Studio M1 Max 32GB 2TB, with two WD 10TB hard drives (one is has 4.6 TB used, the other has 6.92 TB used) attached to a USB extender, which is attached to a single USB port on the Studio. They're used as A and B TimeMachine disks backing up alternatively every hour.
The extender has 5 ports, two are used by the TM disks and they each have their own power adapters. Interestingly I'd plugged in external portable speaker into a 3rd in order to charge it. It's drawing power from the extender and therefore the Studio USB port.)

Guess what, I unplugged the external portable speaker drawing power from the extender and the problem hasn't appeared again.

 

[EugW]

Also, this may be coincidental, but I do note that it started happening after I moved my external USB 4 data drive to a Thunderbolt 4 / USB 4 hub. Previously when that drive had been connected directly to the Mac, I didn't encounter this error. If macOS 15.3 doesn’t fix this then perhaps I will try directly connecting it to the Mac again to see if that changes anything.

I left both my Time Machine drive and my external data drive connected thru Thunderbolt 4 / USB 4 hubs, but I haven't had the problem occur again for the past couple of weeks. In the interim I had updated to Sequoia 15.3, but I don't know if that had anything to do with it.

 

[ThrowerGB]

Guess what, I unplugged the external portable speaker drawing power from the extender and the problem hasn't appeared again.

Oops, it happened again this afternoon.

 

[gilby101]

The extender has 5 ports, two are used by the TM disks and they each have their own power adapters. Interestingly I'd plugged in external portable speaker into a 3rd in order to charge it. It's drawing power from the extender and therefore the Studio USB port.)

Whenever there are issues with USB devices and an unpowered USB hub (extender) is in use, I blame the "extender" until proven otherwise. Use a powered USB hub and see if your problems stop - or connect devices directly to the Mac.

Also I don't think you have told us the brand and model of your extender.

 

[ThrowerGB]

Whenever there are issues with USB devices and an unpowered USB hub (extender) is in use, I blame the "extender" until proven otherwise. Use a powered USB hub and see if your problems stop - or connect devices directly to the Mac.

Also I don't think you have told us the brand and model of your extender.

Thanks, I've connected each drive directly to its own port on my Mac Studio. i.e., no hub involved now. The hub was unpowered Anker with 4 USB 3.0 ports. It plugged into a USB C port on the Mac Studio. Apple System Info says it's a USB3 Gen2 Hub connected to a USB 3.1 Bus. But again, it's not in the loop now.
The two drives are both Western Digital 10 TB Elements hard drives plugged into one (each) of the same USB C ports on the Mac with those ports noted in Apple System Info as connected to a USB 3.1 bus. Each of the drives draws its power from its own adapter plugged into a regular household electrical outlet. The drives have nominal speed of "Up to 6Gb/s"