Time to replace Airport Extreme....maybe

[jbachandouris]

I have the last most recent AE with a 2TB hard drive. With all the Zoom conferences and online schooling, I'm thinking the bandwidth isn't enough. Thinking about replacing the router and putting it in bridge mode so the one MBP can back up to it.

Devices connected:
rMBP 13"
Toshiba PC running Windows 8 ( )
Chromebook
2 iPhone 8's
1 iPhone Xs
1 iPhone Pro Max
1 iPad Pro 11" LTE
Xbox One S (hardwired to cable router)

HomePod (connected but rarely used)
Echo Dot (also rarely used)

Speedtest says I'm getting 93MBps, but that doesn't speak to the actual available bandwidth.

No more than 2-4 devices are active at one time and the house is small and most of us are on the same floor as the router 98% of the time.

So, would a new wifi router help? Thinking of a Nighthawk. Mesh is overkill for this small of a house (barely 1200 square feet).

 

[Fishrrman]

I'd consider mesh anyway.
Perhaps a 2-node system with 3 bands (2 regular wifi bands + a 3rd radio band to handle "the backhaul").

Look at the Linksys Velop and Netscape Orbi (there are others).
The 3rd band keeps it very fast by keeping the "regular" 2 bands free for actual traffic.

You could put the Airport into bridge mode to keep using the hard drive with it.

 

[jbachandouris]

Not really looking to spend $199 and up. If I was going to spend more, it would go towards $20/more a month for 400Mbps instead.

 

[iAssimilated]

Are you actually experiencing any bandwidth issues and/or network drops when using your devices? I only ask because the Airport Extreme should handle your setup just fine.

 

[jbachandouris]

Yes. That’s why I’m here.

My family and I have has several Zoom meetings cut out. There was no other resource intensive apps using the network. No one was streaming Netflix or Disney plus on any of the occasions of the drop outs.

 

[zhenya]

Yes. That’s why I’m here.

My family and I have has several Zoom meetings cut out. There was no other resource intensive apps using the network. No one was streaming Netflix or Disney plus on any of the occasions of the drop outs.

It's difficult to know exactly where the pinch point is without doing more investigation. It's typically on the in-home side of the network, but not always. In theory, your AE is more than capable of performing the job. In practice, it depends on the level of interference in your environment, the construction of your home, and the specific locations of the devices.

If it is your home wifi, mesh is the easiest way to fix this. Upgrading to 400Mb from your ISP won't do you any good because your wifi isn't capable of making use of the 100Mb service you have now.

FWIW, we have a similar size house, have 5 people working and schooling from home, often on 5 video calls simultaneously. We have 100/10 service, and a Nest mesh network. Zero issues.

 

[saulinpa]

Zoom has even been on the news due to issues. Eliminate wireless from the equation by running a long ethernet cable to one of the laptops and try Zoom that way.

 

[jbachandouris]

That won't help as the issue was downstairs and the router is upstairs. Don't have a long enough cable.

I bought the Netgear Nighthawk router and I'm going to run both for now. Netgear getting about 116Gbps but the AE won't get more than 95Gbps.

Need the Airport Extreme for the MBP backup.

 

[saulinpa]

That Netgear supports USB drives so think about retiring the extreme. It is a different file system so you can't simply move the disk over.

 

[jbachandouris]

That Netgear supports USB drives so think about retiring the extreme. It is a different file system so you can't simply move the disk over.

I'll consider that when it dies. At the moment it's fine for one device.

 

[zhenya]

That won't help as the issue was downstairs and the router is upstairs. Don't have a long enough cable.

I bought the Netgear Nighthawk router and I'm going to run both for now. Netgear getting about 116Gbps but the AE won't get more than 95Gbps.

Need the Airport Extreme for the MBP backup.

What’s important is what speed you get at various different points around the house while multiple devices are in use. You really need to use a test app (lots of these on the App Store) and move around testing different areas. This is where a mesh system would likely improve things as compared to even the Netgear. They provide much more even coverage.

 

[gwhizkids]

Another point to remember here is that Zoom (and other high bandwidth consumers and the entire internet, really) are under tremendous pressure due to the hugely increased demand being put on it due to all the work/school from home traffic. So the problem might not even be in your last mile.

FWIW (and probably more than you want to spend), Eero is a great mesh router. It has the bonus of working with Apple’s HomeKit Secure Router program, meaning any smart home devices you might have can be firewalled from IOT attacks.

 

[xraydoc]

I have 4 Apple Airport Extremes (the 802.11ac versions) all in bridge mode connected by gigabit ethernet backhaul. Covers over 5000 sqr ft over 3 levels and can get 250Mbit/sec over WiFi without problem. Over 25 different devices connected to the WiFi network at any one time (cameras, Google Homes, Alexas, phones, laptops, iPads, etc). Rock solid. Both the 2.4GHz and 5GHz networks share the same name and I haven‘t found any of my devices that have issues with that.

Until they die or a showstopper unpatched security flaw is found, I’m feeling no pressure to replace them.

 

[jbachandouris]

The Netgear Nighthawk is the biggest POS I have EVER bought. I hate that Apple left the wifi market. This piece of garbage won't let me connect my wireless printer to ANY of the devices in the house and yes, I pushed that ridiculous button for adding devices on the router. It says connected but isn't seen on the network.

Tech 'support' says I'm the 42 person online.

 

[Fishrrman]

"The Netgear Nighthawk is the biggest POS I have EVER bought."

Send it back and try the Velop.
There's a reason that Apple is selling these in the Apple Stores...

 

[jbachandouris]

Spent who knows how long on hold and then disconnected!
[automerge]1587655128[/automerge]

"The Netgear Nighthawk is the biggest POS I have EVER bought."

Send it back and try the Velop.
There's a reason that Apple is selling these in the Apple Stores...

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[zhenya]

I would personally buy a Nest or Eero mesh system. These are the Apple-like systems of 2020. The marginal cost of buying a good mesh system over a mediocre standard router/ap is $100-150. A few posts up you were willing to sign up for an extra $20/month charge to upgrade internet service speed that would have made no difference to you at all. Spend the money on a good, modern mesh system instead.

 

[jbachandouris]

I'm just going to stick with the Apple router for now and keep my eyes on the prices of the mesh routers for the future.

 

[satcomer]

I would get the best Ac router that has Time Machine Server software inside it the Synology RT2600ac. Then if you want mesh with that router get the Synology MR2200ac!

 

[pwjone1]

Probably your Zoom meeting problems are just from infrastructure problems at their end, or glitches in networking in between. Faster networking at home usually cannot address that. Sometimes too, it is somone else's network, fixing yours will not fix theirs. 100MbPS should be fast enough for at least one or two Zoom sessions. It sometimes helps to get everyone (except the presenter) to not stream video. Do not get me wrong, I like Zoom a lot, and they're making it free to schools and all is noble (and sure, there are security problems, but there are security problems with the other offerings, too, just don't publish the meeting with a password containing URL, and turn off screen sharing outside of host control).

Normally upgrading home networks is not a bad idea, I saw a pretty significant improvement when I put in Netgear Orbi Mesh, but that had more to do with reach problems, and the ability to split A and B some, have it sort it all out. But right now we are in the middle of a transition to WiFi 6, new bandwidth ranges just got approved in the USA, so it might make sense to wait until that sorts out some (and the prices become reasonable), which will probably take until the end of the year. When going external, particularly for things like Zoom, the ISPs speed into the house, and the session count in the ISP router, start to limit you as much or more as the networking WiFi gear. You could upgrade your networking to only find out that you need more bandwidth from the ISP (and some cable ISPs are really kind of notorious for over-committing their networks, so with everyone working from home, something they probably never planned for, they are struggling). And I would also point out that Apple has been somewhat slow to get WiFi 6 support out in its Mac lineup, I have a Lenovo P1 Gen2 (Windows PC) bought last year that has it, iPhones have it, but not so far MacBooks. There is a good write-up on it at:

Wi-Fi 6 OVERVIEW

Still, you want to plan for the future, and WiFi 6 is the future, it is meant to solve a lot of the problems of high device density setups. So if you buy something else now, realize that it may need replacing again in a year or so.

 

[pwjone1]

I guess one further thing I would do is split out the NAS (Network Attached Storage) function from the Networking (particularly WiFi) box. The Apple approach of doing both in the same box is nice enough, one and done, but over time, you may want to upgrade one and not the other, and having them split out helps make it cheaper in the long run. The NAS box can also connected via Ethernet (be sure to use a fast switch or router, something 1GbPS or above, that will be fast enough for most hard drives), which if the boxes accessing it are Ethernet connected, saves you some WiFi bandwidth. That could be a Mac, for say Time Machine backups at night, but most do not bother with the dongles, WiFi is usually fast enough, and it goes on when everyone is (theoretically) in bed, but if you have any iMacs or PC desktops or servers, they will run fine. What I have had pretty good luck with, NAS box wise, is QNAP and Synology, granted those are not cheap, but you kind of get what you pay for, and they are capable of a lot beyond just the base NAS function.

 

[Rizvi1]

I bought my current Airport Extreme Base Station (ME918LL/A) A1521 6 years ago when the comcast xfinity plan I was using it with was at 50Mbps/down. At that time, seemed no issue with getting my full speeds. But now the Xfinity speeds of my same old plan are at 300 Mbps and I did some speedtests with my laptop and best I'm getting off wifi right next to the router is around 135Mbps. When I connect via an ethernet cable, I'm getting the full 300+ Mbps speed - both to and from the airport extreme. So it's the wifi alone that's the bottleneck.

Looking at the specs it seems the Airport Extreme should be doing up to 1.3Gbps/down without issues. So I'm not sure what's going wrong. One issue of late I've noticed is that it seems to have an overheating issue now so maybe that's the reason? This could mean I have to replace it unless there's an easy fix. If I'm replacing, this post stood out:

I would get the best Ac router that has Time Machine Server software inside it the Synology RT2600ac. Then if you want mesh with that router get the Synology MR2200ac!

This way I could keep my wireless time machine back-ups going on our macbooks.

Whether I get a new wireless router or somehow fix and get proper wifi speeds out my current airport extreme, I do need to get an extender or mesh system or something going because the signal gets weak in my master bedroom. For anyone in here with a mesh system and real fast internet - 200 Mbps + - are you guys getting full speeds off your wifi all around the house?

For now I've changed my internet package to a slower one so I'm at least getting my money's worth from that. Once I fix this all (or opt for the ISP's rented equipment), I'll look into faster speeds because I could def use them for my normal use.

 

[zhenya]

I bought my current Airport Extreme Base Station (ME918LL/A) A1521 6 years ago when the comcast xfinity plan I was using it with was at 50Mbps/down. At that time, seemed no issue with getting my full speeds. But now the Xfinity speeds of my same old plan are at 300 Mbps and I did some speedtests with my laptop and best I'm getting off wifi right next to the router is around 135Mbps. When I connect via an ethernet cable, I'm getting the full 300+ Mbps speed - both to and from the airport extreme. So it's the wifi alone that's the bottleneck.

Looking at the specs it seems the Airport Extreme should be doing up to 1.3Gbps/down without issues. So I'm not sure what's going wrong. One issue of late I've noticed is that it seems to have an overheating issue now so maybe that's the reason? This could mean I have to replace it unless there's an easy fix. If I'm replacing, this post stood out:



This way I could keep my wireless time machine back-ups going on our macbooks.

Whether I get a new wireless router or somehow fix and get proper wifi speeds out my current airport extreme, I do need to get an extender or mesh system or something going because the signal gets weak in my master bedroom. For anyone in here with a mesh system and real fast internet - 200 Mbps + - are you guys getting full speeds off your wifi all around the house?

For now I've changed my internet package to a slower one so I'm at least getting my money's worth from that. Once I fix this all (or opt for the ISP's rented equipment), I'll look into faster speeds because I could def use them for my normal use.

Every home is different in terms of layout, construction materials, presence of interference, etc. But the short answer is yes, you’ll be much more likely to get full or near full speeds with a properly sized mesh system.

It’s worth noting that rated wifi equipment speeds are entirely theoretical, in a lab, under ideal conditions. It’s common to peak at ~half the rated speed in practice. Any good modern mesh system should be capable of 200Mbps+ within reasonable range, however.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP:

The Linksys Velop system you posted above in reply 16 is a TWO band system.
It will work well enough, but the best performance is with the THREE band system they also offer.
The "extra radio band" is used exclusively for backhaul -- this is done so that won't impact bandwith on the "regular" wifi bands...

 

[pwjone1]

I always had some difficulties getting max data-rates consistently out of xfinity/Comcast, especially on upload speeds or during evening hours, so that may be a factor in all of this. Remember too, that video and to some degree audio quality on e-meetings is a function too of latency (which you can use ping to get an indication of, but it tends to be more complex).

But rather than get into a big ISP type discussion, the maximum data-rates for WiFi protocols is something like:

• 802.11b - 11MbPS
• 802.11a - 54MbPS
• 802.11g - 54MbPS
• 802.11n - 54MbPS (3x3 - 450MbPS)
• 802.11ac - 200MbPS - 866 MbPS (2x2@80) - 1.73GbPS (2x2@160, Wave2)
• 802.11ax (Wi-Fi 6) - 143MbPS - 2.5GbPS (2x2@160)

The variation (and there seems at this point just a myriad of them) comes from the number of transmit/receive antenna arrangements, and their speeds (20/40/80/160), so it is not just the capabilities of the Wi-Fi router or end-point, but also of the device. If you hook up via ethernet, it is kind of the same deal, there's 10Mb Ethernet, 100Mb, and 1GbPS (there is also some 2GbPS and 10GbPS is used in some faster boxes, 40GbPS is in sample from some OEMs (though fiber so far), but mostly these are on servers/backbones, most consumer type stuff is slower, and you would anyway be limited in most cases by driver and IP stack performance).

Anyway, my recollection is that Apple got to 802.11ac before they pulled out of the market, but which variation I cannot at this point remember. Older variants had earlier standards. An 802.11n running 1x1@40 would top out at 150MbPS, so that would probably translate to the 135MbPS being seen, real-world.

Anyway, that also leads to why I was suggesting Wi-Fi 6 (or 6E), not quite yet to a good price point, hence the suggestion to wait a bit. It has the promise to get you to higher data rates on more devices, closer to wired Ethernet. That can be useful going to NAS boxes on your network, at least up to the point where they hit their max, even if the ISP cannot get to those kinds of data-rates. ISPs it seems to be a function of competition, you can get decent GbPS up/down speeds, but it gets pretty expensive unless you live somewhere that there is competition to drive it back to something reasonable. Google Fiber was doing that, but they seem to have pulled back/out of the cheap+high speed segment. I suppose some of that will end up going 5G (4G tops out at 100/300MbPS, 5G at 10/20GbPS, but it is all theoretical, and years off, I suspect.)