Titanium G4 upgrade advice

[VivienM]

Hi,

So... a few weeks ago, I managed to get a 867MHz Titanium G4 in decent condition. Seemed to be the original configuration - 256 megs of RAM, 40GB HDD, combo drive.

I upgraded the RAM with a gig from OWC.

Now thinking about any potential other upgrades. The goal is to dual boot OS 9 and some flavour(s) of OS X (not sure about Tiger vs Leopard, I just received a Leopard DVD today...).

Couple of questions:
1) I got a (well-regarded, I think) PATA to mSATA adapter, but not sure what mSATA drive to get. Big name brands seem to have exited mSATA. One brand that came up was 'Dogfish' - I think one of the Youtubers used their drive. Any thoughts/recommendations/etc? There's a size limit, too, isn't there, around 120-128GB?

2) This thing has no AirPort card and I don't think trying to get an original Apple card would be particularly useful. Is there any practical (i.e. something other than some unobtainium card from 2008 sold only on eBay by a certain fellow who loves to corner the market on rare Mac accessories such as new M7803 keyboards for $400USD or used Apple GF4 Ti4600s for $1000USD or whatever his price currently is - I am still grumpy because he outbid me on an auction for a new-in-box M7803) option in 2023 to get at least the OS X side on a modern wifi network (WPA2, etc.)? Or is it completely hopeless - wired Ethernet and/or setting up a separate legacy wifi network are the only options?

3) Anything else I should think of upgrading? I had originally thought about trying to get a so-called 'SuperDrive' (call me old, but a 'SuperDrive' will always be a 1.4 meg floppy drive to me) but after thinking about it more, that seems like a largely useless upgrade for a vintage Mac in 2023...

 

[eyoungren]

You're going to run into the 128GB large drive limit, yes. You can either use Speedtools (available for free on Macintosh Garden) fo format the drive so you can use the full capacity or stay under the limit. Speedtools will also work with OS9. Just keep in mind that you don't want to store anything you cannot afford to lose outside of the 128GB limit. This is essentially a drive overlay.

You can get 802.11N from the Linksys WPC600N. It's a PC card that will slot into the card slot on the Ti.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/how-do-you-expand-your-powerpc.2377652/?post=31895337#post-31895337

As to the adapter for your SSD, general rule of thumb is that red colored circuit boards are preferred. The green colored ones do work and plenty of people have had no issue with them. They are also cheaper. But those with the red colored boards are generally bulletproof.

Ableconn IIDE-MSAT mSATA SSD to 2.5-Inch IDE Adapter Converter with Aluminum Frame Bracket - Latch and Retain mSATA SSD as 9.5mm 2.5" IDE SSD Drive

www.amazon.com

 

[VivienM]

You can get 802.11N from the Linksys WPC600N. It's a PC card that will slot into the card slot on the Ti.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/how-do-you-expand-your-powerpc.2377652/?post=31895337#post-31895337

I was going to ask if USB ones are supported, I have a feeling I have a Linksys USB 802.11n thing from the same generation in a drawer somewhere... but it just occurred to me that the Ti only has USB 1.1 so even if it worked, that wouldn't be pretty.

Any thoughts on mSATA drives? I will check the PCB colour of the adapter I have...

 

[eyoungren]

I was going to ask if USB ones are supported, I have a feeling I have a Linksys USB 802.11n thing from the same generation in a drawer somewhere... but it just occurred to me that the Ti only has USB 1.1 so even if it worked, that wouldn't be pretty.

Any thoughts on mSATA drives? I will check the PCB colour of the adapter I have...

The problem with USB WiFi dongles is that most of them rely on the Ralink chip for functionality. Based on the model of dongle, the ability to find the specific app that will function with that dongle is dicey. And even if you do find it, it isn't going to work in the same way as having the WiFi (Airport) icon in your menubar. You have to create a new port in System Preferences>Network, open the app, connect and then leave the app open to maintain the connection. It's not intuitive at all.

The Linksys I mentioned will function just like normal. Turn it on or off via the Airport icon in the menubar and access networks via that icon.

I'm using a Zheino M3 SATA in my 17" PowerBook. I don't think brands matter so much unless you're getting something that is so fantastically cheap it can't possibly be real. Just find something that meets your budget and isn't entirely unknown. Realistically, you are not going to be able to access the full speed of the SSD anyway because the IDE bus is not fast enough.

 

[VivienM]

The Linksys I mentioned will function just like normal.

Okay, found one on eBay, open box "new", at a reasonable price. Ordered it...

I'm starting to regret having tried to install Leopard on this laptop.

 

[eyoungren]

Okay, found one on eBay, open box "new", at a reasonable price. Ordered it...

I'm starting to regret having tried to install Leopard on this laptop.

Well, support of WPA only starts with late versions of Tiger, so if you want to connect to a WPA network you'd need to be on Tiger or Leopard.

Sometimes Leopard can have a bad install though so that might be something to look at. Out of the box though, you're going to want to optimize Leopard. There is a thread in this subforum for that. Alternatively, you might choose to install Sorbet Leopard (see the sticky at the top of the forum). Sorbet Leopard takes all those optimizations I mention and packages it into one Leopard install.

 

[VivienM]

Well, support of WPA only starts with late versions of Tiger, so if you want to connect to a WPA network you'd need to be on Tiger or Leopard.

Sometimes Leopard can have a bad install though so that might be something to look at. Out of the box though, you're going to want to optimize Leopard. There is a thread in this subforum for that. Alternatively, you might choose to install Sorbet Leopard (see the sticky at the top of the forum). Sorbet Leopard takes all those optimizations I mention and packages it into one Leopard install.

I had Tiger before, with the RAM upgrade Tiger seemed to run nicely. I'm still at the stage of updating Leopard, and that, at least, seems seriously, seriously slow. Maybe it's just the hard drive...

 

[eyoungren]

I had Tiger before, with the RAM upgrade Tiger seemed to run nicely. I'm still at the stage of updating Leopard, and that, at least, seems seriously, seriously slow. Maybe it's just the hard drive...

Leopard introduced ACLs, which are a security measure that prevents unauthorized modification or deletion of files. A stock install of Leopard can take sometime to process both because of this and Spotlight indexing. That's all going to make the system slower.

 

[VivienM]

Leopard introduced ACLs, which are a security measure that prevents unauthorized modification or deletion of files. A stock install of Leopard can take sometime to process both because of this and Spotlight indexing. That's all going to make the system slower.

Also, the OS took forever to install, but... I guess that's not that surprising given how big Leopard is.

This is a 2002-era machine, in Windowsland you'd have been running XP at that time period, and XP is a single CD (less than 700MB) while this OS is something like 7-8GB. So maybe it taking like 1.5+ hours to install isn't that surprising... especially with both a laptop optical drive and a 4200RPM HDD or whatever this is. Doesn't help that you're copying both PPC and x86 code...

 

[VivienM]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/how-do-you-expand-your-powerpc.2377652/?post=31895337#post-31895337

As to the adapter for your SSD, general rule of thumb is that red colored circuit boards are preferred. The green colored ones do work and plenty of people have had no issue with them. They are also cheaper. But those with the red colored boards are generally bulletproof.

Grrrr. I took a look at the one I bought a few weeks ago and... green circuit board.

 

[ApolloBoy]

This thing has no AirPort card and I don't think trying to get an original Apple card would be particularly useful.

The problem with the original AirPort cards is that they only support WEP which has pretty weak security, so I would invest in a PCMCIA card or track down a USB adapter. I use an older version of the Edimax EW-7811Un which still has Tiger support, but I don't know if you'd want to sacrifice a USB port for it.

 

[weckart]

Also, the OS took forever to install, but... I guess that's not that surprising given how big Leopard is.

This is a 2002-era machine, in Windowsland you'd have been running XP at that time period, and XP is a single CD (less than 700MB) while this OS is something like 7-8GB. So maybe it taking like 1.5+ hours to install isn't that surprising... especially with both a laptop optical drive and a 4200RPM HDD or whatever this is. Doesn't help that you're copying both PPC and x86 code...

It also has a ton of languages and printer drivers that the XP disc dispenses with. You can deselect all those with a custom install to save some space. You can use a lipo app to delete the x86 binaries to save some storage room althugh those won't interfere with the running of your Leopard or slow it down.

 

[AphoticD]

Well, support of WPA only starts with late versions of Tiger, so if you want to connect to a WPA network you'd need to be on Tiger or Leopard.

Just to chime in on this point, Panther (Mac OS X 10.3.3 or later) can connect to WPA2 networks once the Airport 4.2 Software Update has been applied.

You'd still need compatible hardware to make use of the support, such as the 802.11g Airport Extreme card or compatible USB or PCMCIA adapter.

I run Panther on my 1st gen PBG4 12" (867MHz) and it can easily connect to my WiFi and communicate with my other Macs.

 

[bobesch]

I'd go with a Wifi-Ethernet Bridge.
Serves me well with all sorts of legacy Macs (G3PB,G3iBook etc) especially when running os8/9.
The Edimax-USB-Wifi-Adapter has drivers for Panther/Tiger/Leopard, but lacks of os8/9 support.
You'll have to sacrify one USB-port anyway (to power the Wifi-Ethernet-Bridge as well as the Edimax),
but You might go for a cheap USB2-PCMCIA-card to get two extra USB2-ports (I've learned that from @eyoungren 🤗)
As for OSX I'd stay with Tiger on the TiBook, even there are more a Apps, that share compatibility with later versions of OSX for intel-Macs. Development of browsers is more vivid for Leopard too, but current web-sites have turned into PPC-killers anyway.
My preferences are: FileSharing/FTP, ScreenSharing/VNC, webDAV, IMAP, MS Office, DEVONthink ...

On my TiBook I prefer to boot into os9.
Office01 does not support docx/xlsx/ppcx files. So Tiger has the option to run Office'08 or a file converter (unfortunately Panther does not ...)
os9 offers options for VNC, FileSharing through FTP, IMAP through Classilla and wevDAV through Goliath.
Tiger/Leopard need to mod late OSX/macOS versions to get connected through AFP (you'll have to copy Leopards AFP-kext to e.g. ElCapitan - but I can't say, if later versions of macOS can be modded the same way.)
DEVONthink databases are compatible from Tiger to Ventura.

 

[VivienM]

Tiger/Leopard need to mod late OSX/macOS versions to get connected through AFP (you'll have to copy Leopards AFP-kext to e.g. ElCapitan - but I can't say, if later versions of macOS can be modded the same way.)

I have been lucky - I have a Synology NAS and their AFP server works great both with OS 9 and Tiger/Leopard.

But apparently Synology has announced they are planning to get rid of the AFP server soon. Grrrr. Do they not have any sympathy for vintage Mac users?!

 

[VivienM]

You'd still need compatible hardware to make use of the support, such as the 802.11g Airport Extreme card or compatible USB or PCMCIA adapter.

I bought the adapter @eyoungren recommended, it's expected to arrive tomorrow...

 

[mectojic]

Dogfish SSD is great.

 

[eyoungren]

I have been lucky - I have a Synology NAS and their AFP server works great both with OS 9 and Tiger/Leopard.

But apparently Synology has announced they are planning to get rid of the AFP server soon. Grrrr. Do they not have any sympathy for vintage Mac users?!

Macintosh Garden has a copy of DAVE, by Thursby Software. DAVE is a client level installation of SMB (Samba), the protocol that Windows and modern Macs use. While older versions of OS X do use SMB it was Apple's version of it and not the industry standard. And that is what DAVE installs, the industry standard.

That will allow you to use most modern SMB connections without a problem.

 

[VivienM]

Dogfish SSD is great.

I bought the adapter @eyoungren recommended, it's expected to arrive tomorrow...

Okay, I've now plugged in the wifi PC card. Seems to have been recognized immediately and connects to my WPA2 802.11ax network, so I think we can call that a win...

So, any other upgrades I should do to this thing? I can't think of any unless I want a "Super"Drive...

 

[VivienM]

Okay, I've now plugged in the wifi PC card. Seems to have been recognized immediately and connects to my WPA2 802.11ax network, so I think we can call that a win...

Only in Leopard. Tiger or OS 9 don't really see anything; I wasn't expecting in OS 9, but I thought this card might work in Tiger...

 

[mectojic]

If you want wifi in Tiger, an alternative, cheap and workable solution is getting a USB 2.0 card, plus an old USB 2.0 wifi adapter. There were millions of those made, and many have drivers for OSX going back to Panther/Tiger. The other benefit with that solution is that you get a spare USB 2 port.

As for OS9, there was never wifi support above the original Airport spec (no Airport extreme), so you just have to use a less secure network and an Airport card.

 

[VivienM]

If you want wifi in Tiger, an alternative, cheap and workable solution is getting a USB 2.0 card, plus an old USB 2.0 wifi adapter. There were millions of those made, and many have drivers for OSX going back to Panther/Tiger. The other benefit with that solution is that you get a spare USB 2 port.

Hmmm... and Tiger/Panther will properly support USB 2.0? (e.g. if one wanted to sneakernet things with a USB 2.0 flash drive)

Realistically, I suspect wifi in Leopard is good enough. With the SSD Leopard seems to run at a perfectly passable speed... so Leopard + OS 9 will do, and I don't know to what extent I really need that much network connectivity in OS 9.

 

[mectojic]

Hmmm... and Tiger/Panther will properly support USB 2.0? (e.g. if one wanted to sneakernet things with a USB 2.0 flash drive)

Realistically, I suspect wifi in Leopard is good enough. With the SSD Leopard seems to run at a perfectly passable speed... so Leopard + OS 9 will do, and I don't know to what extent I really need that much network connectivity in OS 9.

Yes certainly, USB 2.0 was introduced in the last build of Jaguar, I think 10.2.8.
It works at the right speed, I've done it before. Only issue I've encountered is that it disconnects the drive if it goes to sleep, since it powers down the PCMCIA card.

This was the USB wifi stick I used, you can see it has 10.4 Tiger drivers:

WG111v2 | WiFi Adapters | NETGEAR Support

WG111v2 | NETGEAR Support

www.netgear.com

 

[VivienM]

Yes certainly, USB 2.0 was introduced in the last build of Jaguar, I think 10.2.8.
It works at the right speed, I've done it before. Only issue I've encountered is that it disconnects the drive if it goes to sleep, since it powers down the PCMCIA card.

This was the USB wifi stick I used, you can see it has 10.4 Tiger drivers:

WG111v2 | WiFi Adapters | NETGEAR Support

WG111v2 | NETGEAR Support

www.netgear.com

Okay - is there a particular brand of USB 2.0 controller it prefers, etc?

I should check what I have in my drawer too - I have at least two wifi USB things that are way way way way way too new for sure, but... hmm.... I suddenly have vague recollections of having bought some random thing from some random place over a decade ago that I have no idea what I did with it.

I should perhaps add that I'm a little hesitant to throw more money at this for things that wouldn't be usable on the OS 9 side of things when I now have a card that works fine in Leopard at least...

 

[mectojic]

Okay - is there a particular brand of USB 2.0 controller it prefers, etc?

I should check what I have in my drawer too - I have at least two wifi USB things that are way way way way way too new for sure, but... hmm.... I suddenly have vague recollections of having bought some random thing from some random place over a decade ago that I have no idea what I did with it.

I should perhaps add that I'm a little hesitant to throw more money at this for things that wouldn't be usable on the OS 9 side of things when I now have a card that works fine in Leopard at least...

You won't get any Wifi USB controller that works in OS9. I can guarantee that now. If you have any desire for wifi in OS9, use Airport or another wifi-ethernet solution such as the VONETS adapter (search my other threads in this subforum for that). The Vonets method would in fact be the fastest wifi solution of them all, approaching near-gigabit speeds.

As for the USB 2.0 card – that will still work in OS9, just at USB 1.1 speeds. I actually really like having it, because it allows you to plug in a mouse without opening the back latch door.