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TiVo Stock Rises on Rumors of Apple TV Deal
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They used to. Actually they have now been surpassed by the Dish Network SlingLoaded VIP 922. I never thought Tivo would ever be beat but the user interface on that thing is downright amazing. Something you would expect Apple to have done. Not only is the UI better than Tivo's, it also has more functionality and Sling built in as well.
not trying to pump
I am NOT trying to pump any rumour here, but I will disclose that I am long TIVO via Sept and Nov Call options bought very very cheap...
that said, could it be that apple is moving towards the true unicorn - the NETWORKED DVR?
don't think about local storage, think about NETWORKED in the cloud storage of YOUR content that you have a right to access. Could apple have the tivo technology (or any for that matter) and setup the networked DVR for us, which would enable your content to any device
I am NOT trying to pump any rumour here, but I will disclose that I am long TIVO via Sept and Nov Call options bought very very cheap...
that said, could it be that apple is moving towards the true unicorn - the NETWORKED DVR?
don't think about local storage, think about NETWORKED in the cloud storage of YOUR content that you have a right to access. Could apple have the tivo technology (or any for that matter) and setup the networked DVR for us, which would enable your content to any device
Brand collision
That sounds right. For me, the new ground here for Apple would be the attempt to swallow a very established brand. "TiVo" is so established that the name has almost made the transition to a generic term for recording television, similar to "Band-Aid" or "Kleenex". Apple has acquired plenty of companies over the years, but none of them have been a household name to the mass consumer. It doesn't seem like Apple's style to try to absorb such a brand with so much mindshare already.
An example of Apple partnering with (not purchasing) a brand as established as themselves would be Apple's partnership with Nike on Nike+. In this case, Nike does what Nike does best (sports/fitness performance measurement) and deploys it on what Apple does best: Apple's device ecosystem. The user interface designs involved were probably close collaborations, but seem to be primarily driven by Nike....
A possible TiVo partnership like this where both brands benefit it not as clear to me, because the two companies' expertise overlaps too much. TiVo doesn't do anything -- including technology, design, user interface -- that Apple wouldn't think they could do better themselves.
To my mind, all that leaves is patent licensing/purchasing.
Agreed. If Apple wants the living room, they will simply have to deal with the time-based broadcast experience, including channel lineups, live events, scheduling, recording, etc. Obviously, this is still how people watch television. If we're going to evolve into a society of only on-demand digital libraries of content (a.k.a. only iTunes
) -- unlikely, IMO -- we haven't gotten there yet by a long shot.
This is an interesting thought, but I'm sure Apple sees the enhanced iAd experience as being a selling point for advertising on their own devices, not on someone else's like TiVo's.
Wow. That would be a new step forward. But scary when I have to see that episode of Friday Night Lights and the network is down! Glitch in Apple's North Carolina facility = whole season of recordings gone? Is it just me? Am I a Luddite?
That sounds right. For me, the new ground here for Apple would be the attempt to swallow a very established brand. "TiVo" is so established that the name has almost made the transition to a generic term for recording television, similar to "Band-Aid" or "Kleenex". Apple has acquired plenty of companies over the years, but none of them have been a household name to the mass consumer. It doesn't seem like Apple's style to try to absorb such a brand with so much mindshare already.
An example of Apple partnering with (not purchasing) a brand as established as themselves would be Apple's partnership with Nike on Nike+. In this case, Nike does what Nike does best (sports/fitness performance measurement) and deploys it on what Apple does best: Apple's device ecosystem. The user interface designs involved were probably close collaborations, but seem to be primarily driven by Nike....
A possible TiVo partnership like this where both brands benefit it not as clear to me, because the two companies' expertise overlaps too much. TiVo doesn't do anything -- including technology, design, user interface -- that Apple wouldn't think they could do better themselves.
To my mind, all that leaves is patent licensing/purchasing.
Agreed. If Apple wants the living room, they will simply have to deal with the time-based broadcast experience, including channel lineups, live events, scheduling, recording, etc. Obviously, this is still how people watch television. If we're going to evolve into a society of only on-demand digital libraries of content (a.k.a. only iTunes
) -- unlikely, IMO -- we haven't gotten there yet by a long shot.This is an interesting thought, but I'm sure Apple sees the enhanced iAd experience as being a selling point for advertising on their own devices, not on someone else's like TiVo's.
Wow. That would be a new step forward. But scary when I have to see that episode of Friday Night Lights and the network is down! Glitch in Apple's North Carolina facility = whole season of recordings gone? Is it just me? Am I a Luddite?
For those who haven't followed TiVO since the launch of the Premiere... (there have been 2-3 updates) While I wouldn't describe it as fast, it's not slow. The GUI is at an acceptable speed at this point. I experience NO crashes and no noticeable bugs. While some switch to the SD interface, MOST do not and many that have at some point have come back to the HD interface as updates have been released. I agree that it was hyped too much and it did not reinvent the DVR in any way. But someone can buy a new TiVo premiere today and have a positive experience over most any DVR available. It seems like you're rehashing the issues the premiere had on launch date.
indeed, but network being independent, I think the failure rate at a network data center is much LESS than the Hard Drive in any current DVR. But, maybe they have redundant network locations, or peering of storage, who knows
Except Ads only gain from more platforms. Remember, iAd is currently a very niche service. Most ads are seen on the web or on TV. Breaking into the web is relatively simple with the interactivity of HTML 5, but TV is more difficult. Buying/Partnering with TiVo gives you that platform + some.
iAds on a non-HTML5 platform would be a completely different ad base and model. I don't see this as a natural fit at all. There are a billion and one Flash ad networks out there delivering crappy Flash-based ads. iAds stands out because it is controlled in scope and target device, and because they don't open the doors to all the excesses of Flash ads (making consumers more likely to give them a chance).
That doesn't mean Apple wouldn't want to sign a deal with Nike (say) which put an iAd on the iPhone/iPad AND also put a Flash-based iAd on Tivo. I just don't see them going there.
I actually have both, and Tivo does play music, let you rent movies through Amazon or Blockbuster, Netflix, etc. But the Tivo interface is really lacking.
To rent movies and play music, i still use the AppleTV over Tivo.
With Tivo, when you do anything non-dvr related, it seems to jump into crappy mode, where the interface and screen resolution changes, and then you browse forever down into your music folders to find your music, etc. I have rented movies from Amazon on it in rooms where I don't have AppleTv and it seems to function okay, but they only recently added HD Rentals.
I took to heart Steve's comments about "No one wants another box" when talking about the future of AppleTV. I'm not sure how he accomplishes that; or if being a DVR company is really something they want to do.
I could see them trying to partner with a National Carrier like DirecTV and creating a device that includes an App platform like they have with iPhone/iPod.
If Apple were to seriously consider adding DVR functionality to the AppleTV, then it would make sense to use some sort of IPTV solution. Maybe something that could be integrated with iTunes? Now that would be cool!
Having used TiVo for the past year I cannot agree about the UI. It is solid, I.e. it is not prone to glitches and crashes but it is a horribly slow hierarchical menu system. Putting an Apple UI over the TiVo engine would be an improvement.
But Apple's direction does not include broadcast or cable as players in the future. If a change were contemplated Elgato would be a better partner/acquisition.
Not even close. I'd give my TiVo and $200 to have my DISH DVR back. Echostar might have "stolen" TiVo's IP, but they've done far better things with it than TiVo ever has.
But alas, I am stuck in a due east facing apt., for now...
Keep an eye on craigslist. I may move to a house soon....
Nothing simple about it. Between all of the ads, and other crap, it's a mess of a UI.
Strange as everyone that I've known to have DirectTV boxes wish they still had the TiVo interface.
What about the DirecTV iTiVo? It would explain the delay in the iTiVo, and DirecTV is already parnered with Apple's buddy AT&T...
confirmed
this has been confirmed this year by D*, but it was to come out end of summer, fall, but might be later. We're all still waiting for it.
the pair trade is long tivo, long D* short Dish
this has been confirmed this year by D*, but it was to come out end of summer, fall, but might be later. We're all still waiting for it.
the pair trade is long tivo, long D* short Dish
It might be time...
Someday Apple will own TiVo.
DVR is the third rail of technology. There are two fundamental issues that have tied up the technology in courts, and prevented a decent model going forward.
The first issue is one of patents. There are essentially three pools of patents that live in this space.
The first and by far the most complete and valuable is the TiVo patents. They did an incredible job in getting the IP in place before releasing a product. They also did an incredible job understanding user issues and how interacting with the box should be done, and they patented all of that.
The second pool of patents was owned by ReplayTV. This was not as big or as important a pool of patents, but maybe enough to actually put out an non-infringing product. ReplayTV was bought by DirectTV as patent cover for their DVR's. (Hold that thought for a moment).
The last major pool of patents is owned by Microsoft. These are the least valuable of the three. There may not be enough there to create a non-infringing product. Interestingly enough they have a ton of stuff on how to handle minimum input on a Standard Density Screen. It looked better and core to the WebTV product. However, the world is rapidly going by them with better quality TVS both in pixels quantity, and smartness in the sets regarding scaling and things like fonts.
There is a forth major player Dish Network, who built their own DVR's, cuz they had a market, and nobody to make machines. And they felt that they could simply make a better box, and that they would simply take on any challenger in court.
Ok, the second thing, and this is really important. In order for this whole DVR thing to work, it requires a schedule. These need to be updated regularly, are different all around the country, and cost money in order to keep updated. This whole ongoing cost was the ultimate bugaboo for OTA DVR's. There is some market out there for the boxes, but the confusing pricing plans keep them from being sold into that market.
Where they really sell is into the Satellite Market. Satellites have two huge advantages. First is that the guide is already there and it's free. The second is that the box doesn't have to encode the video, it's already in Binary, and already very small. All you need is the satellite decoder, and it turns out that those were inexpensive to add-in.
However, satellite companies were loath to give ANY money to the likes of TiVo and Replay, and they built there own boxes. DirectTV bought Replay, and Dish went after on their own.
TiVo has sued and won against Dish numerous times, and has been fully successful, but Dish has managed to keep things at bay for a long time in the courts and appeals.
But it appears that is winding down. And that TiVo is ready for step 2. Cable boxes, and Step 3 is DirectTV.
While all of this is going on, you still have the commercial problem with the boxes and that is the ongoing expense of a schedule for OTA.
However, it may very well be, that Apple is a big enough company that they are willing to fund that for a while or a very long while. While they attempt to ultimately own the DVR marketplace. They are one of the few companies that have the deep pockets to ultimately pull this off.
Or they can continue to just pay attention to what is going on in that market and let TiVo keep honing the issue until it is well settled enough where the market stands.
Someday Apple will own TiVo.
DVR is the third rail of technology. There are two fundamental issues that have tied up the technology in courts, and prevented a decent model going forward.
The first issue is one of patents. There are essentially three pools of patents that live in this space.
The first and by far the most complete and valuable is the TiVo patents. They did an incredible job in getting the IP in place before releasing a product. They also did an incredible job understanding user issues and how interacting with the box should be done, and they patented all of that.
The second pool of patents was owned by ReplayTV. This was not as big or as important a pool of patents, but maybe enough to actually put out an non-infringing product. ReplayTV was bought by DirectTV as patent cover for their DVR's. (Hold that thought for a moment).
The last major pool of patents is owned by Microsoft. These are the least valuable of the three. There may not be enough there to create a non-infringing product. Interestingly enough they have a ton of stuff on how to handle minimum input on a Standard Density Screen. It looked better and core to the WebTV product. However, the world is rapidly going by them with better quality TVS both in pixels quantity, and smartness in the sets regarding scaling and things like fonts.
There is a forth major player Dish Network, who built their own DVR's, cuz they had a market, and nobody to make machines. And they felt that they could simply make a better box, and that they would simply take on any challenger in court.
Ok, the second thing, and this is really important. In order for this whole DVR thing to work, it requires a schedule. These need to be updated regularly, are different all around the country, and cost money in order to keep updated. This whole ongoing cost was the ultimate bugaboo for OTA DVR's. There is some market out there for the boxes, but the confusing pricing plans keep them from being sold into that market.
Where they really sell is into the Satellite Market. Satellites have two huge advantages. First is that the guide is already there and it's free. The second is that the box doesn't have to encode the video, it's already in Binary, and already very small. All you need is the satellite decoder, and it turns out that those were inexpensive to add-in.
However, satellite companies were loath to give ANY money to the likes of TiVo and Replay, and they built there own boxes. DirectTV bought Replay, and Dish went after on their own.
TiVo has sued and won against Dish numerous times, and has been fully successful, but Dish has managed to keep things at bay for a long time in the courts and appeals.
But it appears that is winding down. And that TiVo is ready for step 2. Cable boxes, and Step 3 is DirectTV.
While all of this is going on, you still have the commercial problem with the boxes and that is the ongoing expense of a schedule for OTA.
However, it may very well be, that Apple is a big enough company that they are willing to fund that for a while or a very long while. While they attempt to ultimately own the DVR marketplace. They are one of the few companies that have the deep pockets to ultimately pull this off.
Or they can continue to just pay attention to what is going on in that market and let TiVo keep honing the issue until it is well settled enough where the market stands.