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basic economics: money circulates.
you spend a $100 on a matress, matress saler is $100 "richer", matress guy buys a tv for $300, tv seller is $300 richer, tv seller goes out have a nice dinner for $80 and restaurant cook is $80 richer, restaurant cook has a tooth ache, you are a dentist, you fix him and you get $200more.
the point behind all this nonsense? the fact somone sells something and somone buys something does not automatically make the buyer and/or seller poorer or richer.
Thats not the same as saying that a big company cannot be blamed for making people poorer, not at all. A company can come into a poor country, take advantage to exploit the countries' wealth by taking advantage of cheap labor and or buying "cheap" materials. However, even then you can argue that those pennies the company pay the "slave workers" are making them slightly less poor.

I'm getting caught up in the detail, I'm not blaming Apple for making people poor. I'm just saying if they have $100bn and nothing to spend it on then they have a social obligation to either spend it or even better, put it into places where it's most needed.
 
Tabletop computers!

Two words: Tabletop computers

Yes, large touch-panel computers that can run iOS applications or Mac OS X, much larger than the iPad....something that can fit on the size of a coffee table or be mounted on a wall. Large-panel thin machines that can stream content, play music, movies, etc, and run useful applications. This is a largely unexplored realm of computing which is now possible with multi-touch technology to make this kind of technology useful. Microsoft has showcased something like this, but of course it is not running iOS or Mac OS X. These kind of panel devices would revolutionize computing in the home and office and make the way you interface with computers a different realm entirely. Multiplayer games would also be an application of a device such as this.

This is a real opportunity for Apple to innovate and create a prime item in the market for something like this. This is where computing is going. The technology is available today for this kind of thing to happen. Apple just has to seize the moment.
 
sure,
you spend $500 on a mobile phone, mobile phone seller had to pay $200 to manufacture it, mobile phone seller is $300 richer.
mobile phone seller puts that $300 in a bank account for 20 years...

You spend $500 on a phone because you value it more than the $500, you are better off, the seller is better off. No one is poorer.

Again, companies don't just keep cash in a pile. It is lent out to someone else, the borrower is better off, and the lender is better off. Are you starting to see how the world's wealth can increase, and is not just shuffled around?

It's OK, you can admit that you don't really know economics.
 
Very interesting read. And I'm sure the brains in Cupertino saw this coming a long time ago (which should hopefully mean new product lines coming soon).
 
You spend $500 on a phone because you value it more than the $500, you are better off, the seller is better off. No one is poorer.

Again, companies don't just keep cash in a pile. It is lent out to someone else, the borrower is better off, and the lender is better off. Are you starting to see how the world's wealth can increase, and is not just shuffled around?

It's OK, you can admit that you don't really know economics.

The world's wealth can't increase Jack.

as an aside I really wish you wouldn't associate Hugh Laurie with your right wing capitalist dillusions.
 
Two words: Tabletop computers

Yes, large touch-panel computers that can run iOS applications or Mac OS X, much larger than the iPad....something that can fit on the size of a coffee table or be mounted on a wall. Large-panel thin machines that can stream content, play music, movies, etc, and run useful applications. This is a largely unexplored realm of computing which is now possible with multi-touch technology to make this kind of technology useful. Microsoft has showcased something like this, but of course it is not running iOS or Mac OS X. These kind of panel devices would revolutionize computing in the home and office and make the way you interface with computers a different realm entirely. Multiplayer games would also be an application of a device such as this.

This is a real opportunity for Apple to innovate and create a prime item in the market for something like this. This is where computing is going. The technology is available today for this kind of thing to happen. Apple just has to seize the moment.

I've been thinking this might be reason Apple have dropped Mac from OS X.
Strip the lower out of the current Mac line and do an Air style transformation to make a range of devices like your suggesting. Give this range of Semi-Network Computers it's own branding. Free up the Mac brand to concentrate on it's traditional market.
 
sure,
you spend $500 on a mobile phone, mobile phone seller had to pay $200 to manufacture it, mobile phone seller is $300 richer.
mobile phone seller puts that $300 in a bank account for 20 years...

first, large companies usually dont stockpile money. money works best while its being invested. apple has an stockpile of cash a the moment but that situation is unique and rare, even then it will probably end up being used really soon.
but even if you were right that the company does put the money in the bank, the bank still invest that money, loan it, etc. In other words the money keeps circulating. As a rule of thumb, the only people that stockpiles money indefinetly are drug dealers and bank robbers, and they stockpile to avoid being detected :D otherwise they would invest it as well :p

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The world's wealth can't increase Jack.

as an aside I really wish you wouldn't associate Hugh Laurie with your right wing capitalist dillusions.

thats true and false. while the material content of the world cannot increase, the perceived value can increase/decrease overtime. think about it, 2000 years ago, the perceived value of coal would been next to nothing, 100 years ago the perceived value of coal was substantial with the boom of steam engine. Today 400grams of plastic and 100 grams of copper might worth $10 but an iphone that is made 99.99% of those materials cost 50 times that.
the point being, if you sculpt a piece of rock with no value at all, you can end up with a David that is worth millions! the wealth can increase (or decrease)
 
I'm getting caught up in the detail, I'm not blaming Apple for making people poor. I'm just saying if they have $100bn and nothing to spend it on then they have a social obligation to either spend it or even better, put it into places where it's most needed.

they are not obligated to do nothing. again if they are saving it is because they think thats a good strategic move. They wont save it forever because they know that money in a sitting under the matress doesnt make any more money.
they are just waiting for a good opportunity. and if they find that opportunity indeed the will end up making even more money, expanding and hiring more workers, etc....
 
I hate this article

It is stupid and pointless. I wasn't going to comment but I felt I had to.

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They wont save it forever because they know that money in a sitting under the matress doesnt make any more money.

They had 10 billion under the mattress about ten years ago. Maybe they don't know about your money making theory.
 
I'm just saying if they have $100bn and nothing to spend it on then they have a social obligation to either spend it or even better, put it into places where it's most needed.

No ****** way! Apple's obligation is to make you and I rich (if we are shareholders) so that we can choose to put the money where we think it's needed, or where we think there's a social obligation, not where some Apple execs think it's needed. Shareholders might well want to donate money to the opposite causes from Apple execs. They don't need Apple to make them poorer, and take their potential wealth.

Apple goal is to make shareholders rich. Talk to a shareholder if you want a handout or a donation, not to Apple.
 
It is stupid and pointless. I wasn't going to comment but I felt I had to.

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They had 10 billion under the mattress about ten years ago. Maybe they don't know about your money making theory.

10years ago apple was near bankrupt. the cash-pile they have now is relatively recent, perhaps started 5years or so ago and got really big about a year or so. trust me they know they have to do something with that money, I didnt made "my money making theory" as you so mockingly refer to, thats economics basic. Apple just made too much money too fast and have no clue what to do with it. Shareholders expect too much from Apple and pretty much any financial decision they make has to be very carefully designed.
 
Also, so far Apple hasn't paid out any dividends.

This is incredible.

Pretty typical for a growth stock. And Apple certainly has done a fine job of growing its business.

Investors are not taking it any more, and want to see their part of the cash, or, in short: dividends.

Why would an investor buy Apple for its dividend, when Apple hasn't paid a cash dividend since 1995?

Sounds to me like sour grapes from fund managers would like to add Apple to their portfolio, but can't because their prospectus prohibits them from purchasing non-dividend paying stocks.
 
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Why the pressure to see them continue 20% annual growth. If Apple's growth slowed to 8% annual, that would still be extremely impressive and yet far more realistic.
 
Here's an idea…

…how bout re-investing some of those billions into OS X and desktop systems as they did with the PowerMac G5's and dedicated display line. Maybe rework the HFS+ into something more reasonable, saaaaay ZFS-ish (without the copyright/patent issues), maybe R.I., and pro-Apps that are, well, PRO. Might get back some of the creative enterprise industry lost/about to go with that (shameful) iMovie Pro X release (aka FC-Semi-Pro X). Movie studio's and design firms that have used Apple systems have serious bank, and are sitting on that cash due to major uncertainty re: Apple's future in their market. Does it always have to be either consumer or professional focus? Why not both? They gots da molla.

just sayin' :p
 
Lehman and Goldman eventually speculate on it and we end up with an almost worldwide financial melt down while at the same time weakening real production and service sectors and dipping the western world in a prolonged financial recession where young people are suffering all sorts of emotional problems due to rampant unemployment and older people lose their pensions while the mega rich become even richer, they same mega rich that merely took a hit and were subsequently bailed out by the societies they speculated upon with scarce regard for the future of other people and the damage to the planet?

Is that what you are referring to? :rolleyes:

Oh Yeah, that one thing that happened that one time. That's how the system always works 100%. (sarcasm)

The system might not be perfect, but even with all our complaints, we got it pretty nice over here
 
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Does anyone think apple can maintain their insane margins?

To keep growing AND maintain margins seems somewhat impossible.
 
Hopefully they’ll focus first on having a passion for making great things--things that meet a need really well--rather than following the dictates of a mathematical model! The latter may be necessary to sustain maximum growth, but it’s not sufficient—and could even harm the philosophy that has caused all of Apple’s growth to date!

“The charts say we need to be in some new areas... what product lines can we add?” sounds like an approach worthy of many of Apple’s failed competitors...

Of course, as a user and not a stock owner, I don’t care whether Apple’s bottom line grows on the same curve forever. I just want them to keep making good stuff that’s so simple it seems obvious, yet can’t be duplicated!

Yep. Jobs actually said "I tend not to worry about the numbers. I just focus on making a great product, and the numbers will work themselves out if we accomplish that"

Something along those lines. Hopefully they continue to do that, and focus on simply making awesome products.
 
all they need to do is make an iCar. Huge market there. iGlasses with terminator style hud would be sweet too. iRobot slaves would kick ass as well. "iRobot-make me dinner then do my laundry"
 
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Why the pressure to see them continue 20% annual growth. If Apple's growth slowed to 8% annual, that would still be extremely impressive and yet far more realistic.


because if their growth slows to 8%, then the stock price will decrease, even though 8% is still impressive. the current stock price has 20% growth factored into it because people expect them to continue that rate of growth. obviously this is not sustainable and when they miss wallstreet earnings expectations, their stock price will drop.
 
That's not what the law of large numbers suggests. Kind of sad that the New York Times is so badly misusing that term.

Seriously. The law of large numbers is not a law about anything that involves large numbers.

I think this is by far the most shocking part of the article, it's based on a misinterpretation of a statistical principle! I wouldn't expect such poor journalism from a major news agency.

Seriously, the article could be used in an intro to statistics class about the abuse of statistics!

I propose a public spanking for the author who _completely_ misrepresented the law of large numbers.

In this case, I think that's the only sensible option. :D
 
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