To build or not to Build: Mac love vs. Cost

[Macky-Mac]

.... and I am now moving to a full time freelance designer so doing 10hrs/week on an iMac was fine but doing 50+ hours of trade show graphics/web/magazine layout doesn't seem so fun. ....

...Am I nuts for even considering this for price alone or should I continue to drink the Steve-Aid and spend 2x on the MacPro? Decisions Decisions...

Building a computer will take some of your otherwise billable time and turn it into unbillable time, plus you'll eat up much of the savings when you buy windows software to replace what you already have.

And if you're gonna be doing 50+ hours a week of billable time, then you can afford to get the MacPro......but as others have said, maybe consider a used or slightly older MacPro

 

[KingYaba]

I'd sell the iMac and use the funds to help offset the cost of your desired Mac Pro. If you're making money from your computer (or a living?), do you really want to put it in the hands of a hackintosh?

 

[Eidorian]

Building a computer will take some of your otherwise billable time and turn it into unbillable time, plus you'll eat up much of the savings when you buy windows software to replace what you already have.

And if you're gonna be doing 50+ hours a week of billable time, then you can afford to get the MacPro......but as others have said, maybe consider a used or slightly older MacPro

CS3 Mac -> CS4 Win

Not to mention Adobe is quite nice when it comes to switching platforms and getting new keys.

It doesn't take that long to build a computer and install Windows either.

 

[Macky-Mac]

CS3 Mac -> CS4 Win

Not to mention Adobe is quite nice when it comes to switching platforms and getting new keys.

It doesn't take that long to build a computer and install Windows either.

All true but why bother? Does he want to concentrate on doing his income producing work and building his business, or saving a relatively small amount of money? What's more important to him?

I agree that building his own might be fun and could make sense from a hobbyist's standpoint, but I wonder if it isn't a time consuming diversion from what's important for his business

edit: out of curiosity, how long would people estimate it would take to spec out parts, order them, assemble the works and get it all up and running? (never done it myself due to lack of interest)

 

[Eidorian]

edit: out of curiosity, how long would people estimate it would take to spec out parts, order them, assemble the works and get it all up and running? (never done it myself due to lack of interest)

3-5 days if ordering online to get the parts. If you have all the necessary parts then it's 1-2 hours to assemble them. Installing Windows and drivers is about another 1-2 hours.

 

[chaosbunny]

3-5 days if ordering online to get the parts. If you have all the necessary parts then it's 1-2 hours to assemble them. Installing Windows and drivers is about another 1-2 hours.

Wouldn't these 1-2 hours be a matter of practice? Like ask a photoshop beginner how long does it take to make a photo collage and ask a professional graphic designer?

 

[MrJingles]

Wouldn't these 1-2 hours be a matter of practice? Like ask a photoshop beginner how long does it take to make a photo collage and ask a professional graphic designer?

Hello fellow patrons. For me the last PC I built for my wife 2 years ago took me about 40min to order and about 1.5 hours to build and get Vista 'going' before it had to do updates etc. Just thought I'd chime back in.

 

[Eidorian]

Wouldn't these 1-2 hours be a matter of practice? Like ask a photoshop beginner how long does it take to make a photo collage and ask a professional graphic designer?

It's a step by step process starting usually from installing the power supply and then the motherboard. It's just plugging stuff in and at worst a screwdriver after that.

I swapped my entire computer from one case to another in about 90 minutes. The hardest part was finding a safe place to put my motherboard and video card in the meantime. I don't have that many huge antistatic bags.

There are plenty of guides online that break it down to a task that at worst can be compared to building snap together plastic model kits.

 

[Abstract]

Wouldn't these 1-2 hours be a matter of practice?

No. I've never built my own PC, but it couldn't take more than 1 hour to put together for someone experienced, and 2 hours for a novice who's casually taking his time. My brother has done it as a novice, and it was literally just snapping things into place. He told me it was almost stupidly simple.

And if you need incredibly detailed, step-by-step instructions with little ambiguity, these instructions are available on the net as well.

If you really really can't do the hack yourself, use EFIX

 

[martychang]

If money is that huge an issue I say Hackintosh. The fearmongers here have more than likely never tried it, or if they did they were using some crazy parts in the compy they tried it on. The only time I might caution against Hackintosh is in a laptop, the hardware is more finicky there in my experience.

And I can seriously never recommend Windows, it's fundamentally insecure, to the degree that it no longer matters what you can do with it.

 

[odinsride]

Go for the mac pro...vista is aggravating as hell. If you don't believe me, i'll sell you my PC with Vista Ultimate and use the proceeds towards a mac pro for myself

 

[MrJingles]

I'd sell the iMac and use the funds to help offset the cost of your desired Mac Pro. If you're making money from your computer (or a living?), do you really want to put it in the hands of a hackintosh?

After reading the wiki, comments, guides etc I've come to conclusion the "Hackintosh" just isn't for me. Id want to save time to make more money but if I had to re-hack the system everyting a 10.X release comes out that is just too much hastle. The point to build one is I now I can build a PC in an hour and 30 min later have Vista installed, OR buy a Mac.

I'm leaning more towards the refurb MacPro from the apple store, I've already seen about 10 $1999 older Quads to $2300 for an older 8 core come and go within minutes. I will keep a look out!

 

[Eidorian]

Only settle for the 2.8 GHz Quad Mac Pro for US$1,999.

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

After reading the wiki, comments, guides etc I've come to conclusion the "Hackintosh" just isn't for me. Id want to save time to make more money but if I had to re-hack the system everyting a 10.X release comes out that is just too much hastle. The point to build one is I now I can build a PC in an hour and 30 min later have Vista installed, OR buy a Mac.

I'm leaning more towards the refurb MacPro from the apple store, I've already seen about 10 $1999 older Quads to $2300 for an older 8 core come and go within minutes. I will keep a look out!

Yes, I was just about to mention refurbished products. You don't need cutting edge or the latest/greatest hardware. an older mac pro should work fine. get the cheapest one with the # of cores you need. so if you need 8 core, get the cheapest 8 core, same for 4 core. Then go out and buy ram, graphics card, hard drive, etc. that saves money, since apple hardware is more expensive. and its very simple installing ram/graphics/HDs in the mac pros.

 

[KingYaba]

Only settle for the 2.8 GHz Quad Mac Pro for US$1,999.

Definitely.

 

[DaveF]

...and I am now moving to a full time freelance designer so doing 10hrs/week on an iMac was fine but doing 50+ hours of trade show graphics/web/magazine layout doesn't seem so fun. ...

1. MacPro - I priced the 2x 2.8/500GB HD/8800 upgrade with 8GB 800Mhz 3rd party ram (I have a very nice 24in LCD hooked up to my iMac right now so that doesn't go into the equation)
Price: $3600

2. Build-A-PC 2.8Ghz C2D Quad / 8GB PC1066 (MB supports 16GB) / 1x 250GB 1x 1TB HD / Radeon 4500 512MB / Case , fans, MB, Sound Card etc for Price: $1700!

Buy whichever computer will make you more productive and let you focus on your work and not IT management. Cost is secondary. Especially when that cost is less than $2000, is (partially) tax deductible as a business expense, and will be spread out over the next 3-5 years of your professional work.

And if you're working full time (or more) from home, and this computer is your primary business expense (an assumption), and it will last you for the next 3 years, then a $700 cost per year for a new computer is pretty minor.

That said, if you will work more effectively using the CS4 on a Windows system, then buy that and forget the Mac.

Buy what you need for your job. Don't be penny wise, pound foolish.

 

[FF_productions]

1. MacPro - I priced the 2x 2.8/500GB HD/8800 upgrade with 8GB 800Mhz 3rd party ram (I have a very nice 24in LCD hooked up to my iMac right now so that doesn't go into the equation)
Price: $3600

2. Build-A-PC 2.8Ghz C2D Quad / 8GB PC1066 (MB supports 16GB) / 1x 250GB 1x 1TB HD / Radeon 4500 512MB / Case , fans, MB, Sound Card etc for Price: $1700!

You can't really compare the Mac Pro to that PC, it's not a fair comparison. The Mac Pro is a workstation with server processors/mobo. Apple has very competitive prices with the Mac Pro (they gouge on the ram/hard drives, etc. But the price-point is very competitive.)

Price that PC with the same processor/mobo then come back for a comparison. (Last I checked, the processors alone are $700-1500 depending on which one you get, prices may have changed don't bash me).

OR, get the Quad lower end model, get all the other components 3rd party and you'll be good to go.

 

[Eidorian]

You can't really compare the Mac Pro to that PC, it's not a fair comparison. The Mac Pro is a workstation with server processors/mobo. Apple has very competitive prices with the Mac Pro (they gouge on the ram/hard drives, etc. But the price-point is very competitive.)

Price that PC with the same processor/mobo then come back for a comparison. (Last I checked, the processors alone are $700-1500 depending on which one you get, prices may have changed don't bash me).

OR, get the Quad lower end model, get all the other components 3rd party and you'll be good to go.

I know that a single socket desktop is going to be much, much cheaper then a dual socket workstation.

The price on very fast Core 2 Quad processors has been dropping a lot though.

 

[Umbongo]

You can't really compare the Mac Pro to that PC, it's not a fair comparison. The Mac Pro is a workstation with server processors/mobo. Apple has very competitive prices with the Mac Pro (they gouge on the ram/hard drives, etc. But the price-point is very competitive.)

Price that PC with the same processor/mobo then come back for a comparison. (Last I checked, the processors alone are $700-1500 depending on which one you get, prices may have changed don't bash me).

OR, get the Quad lower end model, get all the other components 3rd party and you'll be good to go.

Getting $2,200 in processors and a system board isn't much consolation if you would be just as productive with something costing a quarter of that. Even with the quad core you are effectivly paying $1,700 if you base the cost purely on component pricing.

 

[FF_productions]

Getting $2,200 in processors and a system board isn't much consolation if you would be just as productive with something costing a quarter of that. Even with the quad core you are effectivly paying $1,700 if you base the cost purely on component pricing.

I'm just trying to make the comparison fair, he could of course price a PC much cheaper with different components, just sayin.

 

[txhockey9404]

I say go for Vista 64. The performance you lose due to Vista is less than the performance you gain from the ability to add much more RAM.

 

[MrJingles]

I'm just trying to make the comparison fair, he could of course price a PC much cheaper with different components, just sayin.

True. Just for the fun of it I priced out the following on newegg.com (yes I like them still)

PC CUSTOM BUILD:

LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD - $22.99
COOLER MASTER ABS ATX Case - $79.99
Seagate Barracuda 250GB Hard Drive - $59.99
Seagate Barracuda 500GB Hard Drive - $74.99
SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 3870 512MB x16 Video Card - $119.99
CORSAIR 650W 80 PLUS Certified Power Supply - Retail - $99.99
OCZ Platinum 8GB (2 x 2GB) 1066 - $209.98($104.99 each)
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DS3R P45 - $126.99
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83GHz - $324.99
Vista Ultimate SP1 64-bit DVD for System Builders -$174.99
ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler - $19.99
ENCORE ENLWI-N PCI 2.3 Wireless Adapter - Retail - $29.99

Total: $1371.87

MacPro Refurb 1x 2.8Ghz Processor / 320GB HD / Radeon 2600 Pro Video card (blah) / Airport Card - $2048.99
8GB OWC 800Mhz - $275
Seagate Barracuda 500GB Hard Drive - $74.99

Total: $2398

If I want a real video card add $217.99 for a ATI RADEON 3870
New Total: $2616.97

So MacPro - PC Build = $1245.10 ouch. I know one is a server one is a desktop but I used the same speed CPU/HD/Video card for comparison. So is OSX worth an extra $1245.10? (Not to mention the 3750 200% price markup!) That is the big question.

 

[crazzyeddie]

You can get the single Quad 2.8ghz Mac Pro for $2,299.

For what you're doing (unless you're playing games, etc), the 2600XT will perform just fine (better than the 8800) for what you're doing, and if you need more you'll honestly want to update to another ATI card, not an Nvidia card, for your work (link).

Add on the $275 for 8GB of RAM and you're set for around $2600. Wait to see if you need the graphics card, etc...

If its refurb, as you pointed out, you can save about $200.

I honestly think that the time and effort you would spend setting up the new computer, modifying your work flow, etc... would almost make up for the difference between this and a Hackintosh.

 

[emt1]

True. Just for the fun of it I priced out the following on newegg.com (yes I like them still)

PC CUSTOM BUILD:

LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD - $22.99
COOLER MASTER ABS ATX Case - $79.99
Seagate Barracuda 250GB Hard Drive - $59.99
Seagate Barracuda 500GB Hard Drive - $74.99
SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 3870 512MB x16 Video Card - $119.99
CORSAIR 650W 80 PLUS Certified Power Supply - Retail - $99.99
OCZ Platinum 8GB (2 x 2GB) 1066 - $209.98($104.99 each)
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DS3R P45 - $126.99
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83GHz - $324.99
Vista Ultimate SP1 64-bit DVD for System Builders -$174.99
ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler - $19.99
ENCORE ENLWI-N PCI 2.3 Wireless Adapter - Retail - $29.99

Total: $1371.87

MacPro Refurb 1x 2.8Ghz Processor / 320GB HD / Radeon 2600 Pro Video card (blah) / Airport Card - $2048.99
8GB OWC 800Mhz - $275
Seagate Barracuda 500GB Hard Drive - $74.99

Total: $2398

If I want a real video card add $217.99 for a ATI RADEON 3870
New Total: $2616.97

So MacPro - PC Build = $1245.10 ouch. I know one is a server one is a desktop but I used the same speed CPU/HD/Video card for comparison. So is OSX worth an extra $1245.10? (Not to mention the 3750 200% price markup!) That is the big question.

In my eyes, no. Especially when you could throw an EFI-X card in there for $150 and actually run Mac OS X natively.

 

[nick9191]

You cannot compare the Mac Pro to a PC unless you build an identical config. Xeons, Xeon motherboards, and workstation RAM cost a hell of a lot more than standard components. If you were to spec up an identical PC you would find the Mac Pro cheaper.

Personally I would build it myself. The Mac Pro is an amazing, and cheap machine, although thats like saying a BMW for £50k is cheap. Yes it is cheap, but I don't need a BMW, I need a Fiesta. I personally would run Ubuntu on it, although Vista 64 will run reasonably well on a machine of that caliber.