To build or not to Build: Mac love vs. Cost

[macsmurf]

As a hackintosh user I would say: Don't use a hackintosh for work!

Hackintoshes are in fact quite stable but may have a few "weird" issues depending on your hardware configuration. For example, mine has an issue with the DVD drive and with environment.plist being forgotten during sleep.

In practice these issues are not much of a bother but I don't use my hackintosh for work. What you don't want is to run into some issue when you should be spending your time working, and even if you have a backup (and it works), you would be unable to work during the restore. In addition, I've spend many hours tweaking the system to get it right.

If OS X enables you to be more productive, creative or whatever, you will make the extra initial cost of a (possibly refurbished or used) Mac Pro back over time. If it doesn't, go with Windows.

It is my belief that people who recommend hackintoshes in a work environment are not actually professionals with the computer as their primary tool.

 

[MrJingles]

As a hackintosh user I would say: Don't use a hackintosh for work!

It is my belief that people who recommends hackintoshes in a work environment are not actually professionals with the computer as their primary tool.

I agree, I poo-pooed the idea of making a Hackintosh, especially the 'patch-o-rama' way of doing it because this will be a work machine and I cannot afford any issues (besides InDesign CS3 randomly crashing).

The EFiX dongle is an interesting idea but the legality of it is questionable and my fear would be Apple will release 10.5.6 that breaks the dongle anyway, so why bother? (Or go after users for breaking the EULA) Of course you may be wondering how I have so much time to do all this forum-ing but I'm moving soon so I'm taking a small hiatus and I figure by new computer now before the sticker shock of a mortgage sinks in! =)

 

[MrJingles]

You cannot compare the Mac Pro to a PC unless you build an identical config. Xeons, Xeon motherboards, and workstation RAM cost a hell of a lot more than standard components. If you were to spec up an identical PC you would find the Mac Pro cheaper.

Personally I would build it myself. The Mac Pro is an amazing, and cheap machine, although thats like saying a BMW for £50k is cheap. Yes it is cheap, but I don't need a BMW, I need a Fiesta. I personally would run Ubuntu on it, although Vista 64 will run reasonably well on a machine of that caliber.

First no offense but I am not, or ever will be, an avid Linux user of any variety until they make it like windows or OSX: Install, click, use. No coding, programming etc and everything (yes everything) that works on either OS runs 100% perfectly on Linux. Ah a perfect world!

But going back I stated that I understand the fundemental difference between the server based parts of a MacPro vs a Desktop but that is the issue: There is no non-server-based headless Mac. I don't need 8 cores and 64 GB of super power. =)

EDIT: Mac Mini doesn't count !

 

[macsmurf]

First no offense but I am not, or ever will be, an avid Linux user of any variety until they make it like windows or OSX: Install, click, use. No coding, programming etc and everything (yes everything) that works on either OS runs 100% perfectly on Linux. Ah a perfect world!

I use Linux for work. Then again, I'm actually coding for a living. Photoshop isn't available on Linux so for you it doesn't make sense. Go with the Mac Pro. You know you want to

 

[Umbongo]

You cannot compare the Mac Pro to a PC unless you build an identical config. Xeons, Xeon motherboards, and workstation RAM cost a hell of a lot more than standard components. If you were to spec up an identical PC you would find the Mac Pro cheaper.

I used to say the same thing, but really that is only comming from the point of view of the value of the components. From the perspective of what it allows the user to do and how long it takes (what most buyers care about) the Mac Pro can be a very expensive alternative with the only benefit of it being an official Apple system.

 

[MacFlash]

True. Just for the fun of it I priced out the following on newegg.com (yes I like them still)

...

So MacPro - PC Build = $1245.10 ouch. I know one is a server one is a desktop but I used the same speed CPU/HD/Video card for comparison. So is OSX worth an extra $1245.10? (Not to mention the 3750 200% price markup!) That is the big question.

More like is $1245 worth:
1) actual customer support - you get none with a home built PC
2) unified one year warranty (more with Apple Care) good luck with NewEgg warranties and that if you can diagnose the issue
3) OSX
4) workstation grade parts, NOT desktop parts (how many people have to say this?)
5) actual resale value in 3 years (check ebay for proof)
6) the inside of your box looks like this:

Not like this:

 

[Beric]

<snip>

If all that stuff is worth $2500 for you, then clearly you are not the type for a hackintosh.

 

[MrJingles]

More like is $1245 worth:
1) actual customer support - you get none with a home built PC
2) unified one year warranty (more with Apple Care) good luck with NewEgg warranties and that if you can diagnose the issue
3) OSX
4) workstation grade parts, NOT desktop parts (how many people have to say this?)
5) actual resale value in 3 years (check ebay for proof)
6) the inside of your box looks like this:

Ah Hem.. in response:

1) I don't need someone to run through a list of mandatory questions, I've fixed PC's for over 10 years thank you very much.
2) Given this helps, I will give you that.
3)For shame! This should have been at the top of the list!
4)No need to get snippy I understand but I've had little ol' "desktop parts" run just as fast and last just as long as "workstation parts" (5-6 years before something gives)
5)Resale value on Ebay for a 3 year old PowerMac G5 ranges from $300 - $800 but honest the $800+ range include a kitchen sink (and 12+ GB ram)
6) If you never open it, you will never know right? I guess I could mod it to have a clear sideplate with neon blue LEDs that dance around but nah it will stay my 'little secret'.

The whole point of this topic was to open up discussion about the Pro/Con of being a system builder vs Loving Macs enough to say "I know I can make a faster PC but I will eat the cost and/or break the law (YOU THIEVES!) and build a dreaded HACKINTOSH but hey everyone's welcome to comment!

 

[MacFlash]

Ah Hem.. in response:



The whole point of this topic was to open up discussion about the Pro/Con of being a system builder vs Loving Macs enough to say "I know I can make a faster PC but I will eat the cost and/or break the law (YOU THIEVES!) and build a dreaded HACKINTOSH but hey everyone's welcome to comment!

In re-response:

1) I don't need someone to run through a list of mandatory questions, I've fixed PC's for over 10 years thank you very much.

It may matter for someone else on this board that does not know everything about PC building already. I also did not mention having a Apple Store or MacGenius to take it to for problem solving...


2) Given this helps, I will give you that.

Appreciated.

3)For shame! This should have been at the top of the list!

Agreed, but I did not want to reorder my list!

4)No need to get snippy I understand but I've had little ol' "desktop parts" run just as fast and last just as long as "workstation parts" (5-6 years before something gives)

If you accept that desktop parts are really as good as workstation parts then there really is ZERO reason to get a MacPro. I wonder why they even make workstation grade parts...maybe the Mac is just overbuilt.

5)Resale value on Ebay for a 3 year old PowerMac G5 ranges from $300 - $800 but honest the $800+ range include a kitchen sink (and 12+ GB ram)

Not taking into account inflation, that brings the price difference down to $900 or $400. Based on your build, I would say its pretty close to the kitchen sink, especially with all that software. So lets split the difference and call it a $650 difference after resale value. Is a warranty and OSX alone (I'll toss out everything else you find worthless) worth $650? Oh, and don't forget your built computer will need a legit copy of Vista you would need to buy. Uh oh, we are getting pretty close to breaking even now my friend.

6) If you never open it, you will never know right? I guess I could mod it to have a clear sideplate with neon blue LEDs that dance around but nah it will stay my 'little secret'.

I don't know what type of person you are, but I would definitely know. Most likely the guilt would be consuming, which is why I bet you started this thread. You would fell guilty for cheating on the full Apple experience.

 

[Umbongo]

I wonder why they even make workstation grade parts...maybe the Mac is just overbuilt.

They had/have no choice. To offer 4 cores and support more than 8GB of memory (which they already had with the G5) they had to go for a dual socket workstation. Obviously they have to continue along this path.

 

[MacFlash]

They had/have no choice. To offer 4 cores and support more than 8GB of memory (which they already had with the G5) they had to go for a dual socket workstation. Obviously they have to continue along this path.

Sorry, I should that added a rhetorical tag to that comment which was not meant to be a serious question.

 

[sangosimo]

you can overclock pc's on top of all the cost saving advantages too. If you want a build a rig exactly like the mac pro you can with a dual 771 mobo.

 

[Donar]

If you accept that desktop parts are really as good as workstation parts then there really is ZERO reason to get a MacPro.

The MacPro works out of the box and you do not have issues with updates. These are good points for a MacPro.

I wonder why they even make workstation grade parts...maybe the Mac is just overbuilt.

I think Apple needs the workstation chip sets, FBDIMM and XEONS for supporting two CPU sockets. The MacPro with it's "workstation" parts as a Dual CPU (Quadcore) Rig is a good value, but it is overkill for most guys. The Model with only one CPU could be based on much cheaper parts if Apple wanted to.

Because of that i did build my own "MacPro light". Works like a charm, but if Apple would release something similar at an attractive price i would probably buy it, just for the convenience of doing updates without issues...

 

[Igantius]

I agree, I poo-pooed the idea of making a Hackintosh, especially the 'patch-o-rama' way of doing it because this will be a work machine and I cannot afford any issues (besides InDesign CS3 randomly crashing).

The EFiX dongle is an interesting idea but the legality of it is questionable and my fear would be Apple will release 10.5.6 that breaks the dongle anyway, so why bother? (Or go after users for breaking the EULA) Of course you may be wondering how I have so much time to do all this forum-ing but I'm moving soon so I'm taking a small hiatus and I figure by new computer now before the sticker shock of a mortgage sinks in! =)

There was an interesting interview with the company looking at the legality and the technical side of the dongle - also, who the product is aimed at - http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/efi-x-efix-leopard-usb,2021.html

 

[Nimiety]

Time required to fully install XP: about a weekend including the drivers applications, and various settings to be fully functional.

Time required to fully install a Hackintosh: about a weekend including the drivers, applications and various settings to be fully functional.

Having gone through this, I can testify that the only problem I had was with sound, solved by a $1 usb sound card (shipping was $7). I use this as a media server for a few apple TVs and constant tv show torrenting. The workflow has become so much simpler that we've cancelled the digital cable (saving $60 a month), and it's been running stable 24/7 for three weeks straight (so far). Now that things are stable, I can overclock my c2d back up to around 3.5G.

The XP box had battled viruses almost constantly for the past 6 months, despite being trashed three times (twice on the same weekend after googling for the drivers that would let me install the apps that would let me install the service packs that would let me install the virus software - no kidding!!!)

I'll grant you that I was nervous going in, but nevertheless, the end result is very positive, powerful, and stable, while saving money and being more functional than it was before.

N.....

 

[RedDragon870503]

My hackintosh has been nothing but a joy! Seriously consider it.

 

[HooHar]

A previous poster mentioned EFIX - why haven't you guys talked more about this - surely this turns all the arguments against build-your-own upside down - or am I missing something?

http://gizmodo.com/5049756/review-efix-dongle-perfectly-transforms-pc-to-mac

 

[VoR]

I'm not sure it makes any difference? Maybe it'll cut down on a bit of reading and research, but I'd rather do that anyway if I was running osx86.

I'm under the impression that efix is looking to make a profit on other peoples hard work (like psystar?)?. If that's the case I certainly wouldn't use it.

 

[Igantius]

I'm not sure it makes any difference? Maybe it'll cut down on a bit of reading and research, but I'd rather do that anyway if I was running osx86.

I'm under the impression that efix is looking to make a profit on other peoples hard work (like psystar?)?. If that's the case I certainly wouldn't use it.

From my understanding, the Efi-x team have built this from the ground-up themselves and their product is the fruit of their own labours - the interview I linked to above is worth a read.

Personally, I feel it's less hassle using the Efi-x.

 

[VoR]

I think you may be right.
I think the aggro in the community was directed more towards psystar for making money off of other people's work - now that they've released their software to the public I think it's less of an issue.

The efi-x just replaces the emulation done in software though right? You still need to modify your install to have your system functioning properly.

 

[Igantius]

I think you may be right.
I think the aggro in the community was directed more towards psystar for making money off of other people's work - now that they've released their software to the public I think it's less of an issue.

The efi-x just replaces the emulation done in software though right? You still need to modify your install to have your system functioning properly.

Ahh, didn’t really know that Psystar had flak for that – also, I misread your post in a hurry, so apologies for any confusion!

One of the beauties of the Efi-x is that the OS X you install is unmodified from the Leopard retail DVD and from the Gizmondo review, seems a doddle to install.

I plugged the EFiX dongle into a USB header on my motherboard—not, as you might have assumed, to a USB port on the outside. That's really it for getting your hands dirty, though. I restarted my computer, selected EFiX as the boot device—it was listed under hard drives, actually—and was greeted with a drive selector. After selecting the Leopard disc, it started installing without a hitch.

Currently, looks like they’re trying to fulfil existing orders before taking more.

 

[VoR]

Ahh, didn’t really know that Psystar had flak for that – also, I misread your post in a hurry, so apologies for any confusion!

One of the beauties of the Efi-x is that the OS X you install is unmodified from the Leopard retail DVD and from the Gizmondo review, seems a doddle to install.

I was reading netkas' opinion on psystar, and he didn't seem to appreciate them too much

It lets you boot an unmodified leopard dvd instantly yeah (slowly though), but that doesn't mean that your install will have all your hardware working perfectly out of the box. I'm still under the impression you have to modify a string or two to take full advantage of 3rd party gfx/sound cards etc, so you'll still have to do a little bit of reading if you want a perfectly running machine.

I can't stress enough how well a 'random' q6600 desktop I have runs compared to my pro.

 

[MrJingles]

Today really stinks

I can't stress enough how well a 'random' q6600 desktop I have runs compared to my pro.

Well after today's announcement with all-glossy/glass covered everything from laptops to cinema displays and the negative "you're a tool it's the best ROFL" cultist feedback I got on the news forums I guess it made my choice a heck of a lot easier.

Apple just told me "I don't give a crap about your professional opinion, eye-strain and headaches caused by glass/glare/glossy screens, helping us stay afloat when our stocks tanked or the 10k+ you've spent on our products we're taking away your silly choices and giving you what we think you need."

I could give them my money and build a Hackintosh but is still giving them $129 I don't think they deserve at the moment.

PC world, I guess I have to come back with my tail between my legs and admit I was a blind fanboy for all the times I defended Apple with it's higher prices, incredibly limited options and non-existent mid-range desktop option.

Maybe I'm just in shock, or maybe I ate something that upset my stomach, I don't know but feel free to tell me how stupid I am, I'm expecting it at this point and it would only reinforce my decision.

I really hate today, did I mention that?

 

[lgoodlove]

two options now

ok they way i see it there are 2 options

1. go with the sexy new macbook pro that just came out. the 1033mhz ram will be great and the new graphics will make huge graphics apps a lot easier to run.

2. PC-hackintosh ever heard of it? its called OSX86 and its a project to get OS X on any PC (well any PC now anyway) it started back with the intel switch. And it's not that hard... the only real downfall of the system is that it may not work on the PC you built... if you want to know more message or email me
lgoodlove..........@.........mchsi.com

I am having the same problem myself... but i design websites/facebook apps

 

[LaDirection]

First off I bought a 2.4 iMac with 4GB October 2007 and I've loved it.

I'm currently running CS3 Design Premium and make full use of it, Lightroom 2 with D300 sized images and the normal Office 2008 apps. It runs 'fine' as long as I don't have too much open at once but if I'm editing batch files in Lightroom 2 and editing in Photoshop while surfing the web for tips and listening to iTunes well.. it's not so fast anymore.

BUT with CS4 coming out with GPU acceleration (I don't care about the 64bit I don't do 5GB file manipulation) and I am now moving to a full time freelance designer so doing 10hrs/week on an iMac was fine but doing 50+ hours of trade show graphics/web/magazine layout doesn't seem so fun. I don't really love Vista but it's 'alright' but I definitely prefer OS X any day of the week but here is my major dilemma: I can build a very fast cheaper PC.

I've built PC's for years but I moved back to mac for my home computer, I love them! But software demands more so here is what I priced out:

1. MacPro - I priced the 2x 2.8/500GB HD/8800 upgrade with 8GB 800Mhz 3rd party ram (I have a very nice 24in LCD hooked up to my iMac right now so that doesn't go into the equation)
Price: $3600

2. Build-A-PC 2.8Ghz C2D Quad / 8GB PC1066 (MB supports 16GB) / 1x 250GB 1x 1TB HD / Radeon 4500 512MB / Case , fans, MB, Sound Card etc for Price: $1700!

I understand "2x Quad Xeon vs 1Quad Desktop' but honestly I'm not editing HD content I just need access to more ram, better video cards and more than a single Hard Drive. (I already have external FW800 but that doesn't substitute for a 2nd internal)

Am I nuts for even considering this for price alone or should I continue to drink the Steve-Aid and spend 2x on the MacPro? Decisions Decisions...

I have another dilemma for you, should you get the Mac Mini or the Mac Pro which are basically the same thing?

Seriously, have you smoked anything today?

The Mac Pro is a workstation, go to dell.com and configure their Dell Precision Workstation (T7400 64bit) with the SAME specs as the Mac Pro:

2X2.8GHz Xeon model, Apple $2,799, Dell $4,407.

That's right, an equally configured Dell cost close to $2,000 more than a Mac.

Should you continue drinking the Michael Dell-aid cup?

Your thread is like saying : I can configure this Ford EXACTLY like the BMW. Both have engines (granted they don't have the same amount of horsepower but I don't do pro racing) etc. but the BMW is costlier!

Buy a Nintendo and close this thread.