To buy a Mac...

[LOLZpersonok]

Long post! Beware! I'd appreciate if you read the whole thing.

So I've got a job and I am now able to save for a new and costly computer.

I've gotten the idea that I want to buy a new Mac just so I can do video editing stuff on it, not much else. Maybe play Minecraft every now and then.

Right now, all-time main computer is my HP Envy. It's great and it'll stay my all-time main computer. It's a laptop, so it's great, but it doesn't have a nice, big screen. It's only a 15" laptop. It's nice because I can play any game I want on high settings with no lag.

My main desktop system is a Power Mac G4, which is a major step down from my HP Envy. I like to have a desktop system because I don't have to keep getting up and down, unplugging it when it's charged or plugging it back in when it needs to be charged. (That's how you maintain good battery life in a laptop)

I want a Mac to do my video editing on, a Mac that's powerful. I won't buy a Mac Pro because it's a workstation, and if I were to get a workstation I'd buy an HP Z820 which is still more powerful than the new and as of now unreleased Mac Pro, but fully configured it costs ~$30,000. I don't think I can save $30,000 on $10/h and 3 days a week.

I've been debating an iMac and a MacBook Pro (Non-retina display) for a few reasons, and here is why I want both, but can only get one. I wouldn't get a retina display MacBook Pro - The practically invisible screen pixels are not a concern for me plus it's far too expensive for my likings. It also doesn't have a CD drive.

For iMac:

• It's a desktop, and I obviously want a new main desktop. It would encourage me to use the computer more often.
• I love the nice, large screen.
• It's cheaper than a MacBook Pro, Even with the configuration I want. I don't know why.

Against iMac:

• I can't take it with me.
• The RAM is probably not user upgradeable.
• Apple isn't clear on it's Buy Now page on whether it comes with dedicated graphics or not.
• No optical drive.
• The mice tend to make my hands sore. I know because I've sat and used my friend's Magic Mouse or whatever it's called for a while and it makes my hand ache.

For MacBook Pro:

• It's portable and I can take it with me.
• It's small and convenient.
• It has an optical drive built-in.
• I'm pretty sure I could upgrade the RAM in the future if I wanted to.

Against MacBook:

• Because it's portable and my main computer is a laptop, I wouldn't use it for much else other than video editing. I've been able to get 11 hours on a single charge on my HP Envy's battery and because the MacBook doesn't last as long I won't use it as much.
• It costs more with the hardware I want.
• It's easy to be stolen.
• I hate the touchpads on MacBooks. I'm used to keeping my thumb on the right and left click buttons and I'm not used to the whole thing being a button. For me, it's very awkward and with what I do, I'll end up activating a multitouch gesture by accident.
• I can drop it and break it. I'm always scared I'm going to drop and break my HP Envy.

Just a side note, I'm not asking you to sell me your Mac if you're looking to sell it. I want something brand-spankin' new.

As for specs, I'd want something that's inexpensive, like an Intel Core i5, but even though they come with the Macs in quad core configuration, I don't know if they'd come with dedicated graphics. I will NOT settle for integrated graphics. My HP Envy has dedicated graphics (and integrated graphics as well) and since I'm used to it's benefit I am not willing to buy anything with integrated graphics.

I don't want a dual core processor. Or less than 8GB of RAM.

The kind of video editing I'm looking to do is stuff with Final Cut Pro X or using other professional, high end software. I don't want to buy a powerful Mac simply for iMovie...I'd buy an Air for that. I also want Minecraft. Other than The Sims (Which I have on my HP Envy; it'd be useless to buy a copy for the Mac) there are no other games other than GTA San Andreas that tickle my fancy. I've got 13 games on my HP Envy and only 3 of those have Mac versions so gaming is out of the question.

What I'm asking is which Mac should I buy and what configuration would you recommend? I'm also looking to be as cost effective as I can. Also, give me tips on what I should use the computer for other than Final Cut Pro X because I don't do a lot of video editing. If I only used it for that all the computer would do is sit and collect dust. I bought my Power Mac G4 intending to use it with iMovie, but that doesn't happen and it's only turned on about once every three weeks or so.

 

[talmy]

Seems like a very conflicted post. You would be buying it mainly for FCPX but don't intend to use it much. My first thought is that you should just save your money and get Sony Vegas for your Envy.

That said, I use FCPX on a (2 year old) 15" MBP with the highres antiglare display and a nearly 4 year old 27" iMac. Both of these have quad core i7s. FCPX (and it's addons) make good use of the i7 and having a second external hard drive matters as well. But I don't really see how this would make sense for you. If you have to ask what to use a computer for, you don't need it.

 

[Preclaro_tipo]

resale and usage

I suggest a long consideration as to why do video editing, what for, and how much. If you never used iMovie and hardly turn on the computer, I question the (apparent) burning desire to get FCPX and the computer to run it. (why buy a better wrench if you don't have anything to wrench on)

Strongly consider upgrading the ram yourself, later, not ordering extra from Apple. It seems you realize this.

Consider the resale value of either your mac or your HP Envy, or both. If you do get a new mac, you'll have 3 computers, at least one of which you barely use.

Your annual income is $12,500 or so, it seems. I'd seriously check out my local library's (or school's, if you are a student) computer options and take media (portable hard drive) there to edit, if they have the option, before I'd spend 20% of my annual gross income on a computer only (no software).

 

[martinm0]

Hackintosh?

Have you given any consideration to building a Hackintosh? You could effectively replace the aging Power Mac with a much more powerful desktop that could dual/triple boot OSX and Windows (and/or any other OS) at a fraction of the cost or way more power for the money. I'll admit that they can be a pain at times, but I've had pretty great luck with my two builds (the latest 3.5 i7 OC'd to 4.2 on air, HD4000 & HD7950 3GB GPUs, 16GB RAM, dual Thunderbolt ports). Gives you the option to run Windows and do some proper gaming, and is upgradeable in the future without having to sell the whole device and buy a complete system again.

I happen to have a retina 15" MBP (2.7, 16GB, 512 SSD) and it really is a great machine. You'd appreciate the retina if you had it...

 

[LOLZpersonok]

Seems like a very conflicted post. You would be buying it mainly for FCPX but don't intend to use it much. My first thought is that you should just save your money and get Sony Vegas for your Envy.

I already have Sony Vegas Pro 10, I got it as a Christmas gift with my HP Envy. I feel that it isn't very feature rich and it isn't capable of motion tracking without this unusually expensive plugin. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Final Cut Pro X is capable of motion tracking and applying CGI effects by default, something that Vegas isn't capable of by default without a lot of work.

I know I don't do video editing often, but when I do (for YouTube) I like software that is extremely feature-rich and flexible. Vegas is flexible but I feel as if it's not feature-rich.

Besides, I want to get myself into that professional CGI scene. My goal is to eventually make effects like Tron Legacy sometime in the future.

----------

Have you given any consideration to building a Hackintosh? You could effectively replace the aging Power Mac with a much more powerful desktop that could dual/triple boot OSX and Windows (and/or any other OS) at a fraction of the cost or way more power for the money. I'll admit that they can be a pain at times, but I've had pretty great luck with my two builds (the latest 3.5 i7 OC'd to 4.2 on air, HD4000 & HD7950 3GB GPUs, 16GB RAM, dual Thunderbolt ports). Gives you the option to run Windows and do some proper gaming, and is upgradeable in the future without having to sell the whole device and buy a complete system again.

I happen to have a retina 15" MBP (2.7, 16GB, 512 SSD) and it really is a great machine. You'd appreciate the retina if you had it...

I was considering doing a Hackintosh in the near past but I never got it to work. I have a Toshiba NB305 netbook I tried to Hackintosh and even though it was able to boot Mac OS X 10.6 (How I did that I have no clue), it wouldn't last more than 10 minutes without giving me a kernel panic and the WiFi didn't work anyways.

I could build a machine myself, but I won't, either because I don't have the patience or am worried that I'd miss out on something crucial, except for the obvious.

As I said earlier, gaming isn't an issue for me. My Envy does it extremely well and I never have overheating issues (because I have an adjustable, dual-fan cooling pad) even on high graphics settings.

I would get a retina display MacBook Pro, but it lacks a CD drive and I'm only willing to have an external CD drive with a desktop so I don't need to carry it with the computer all the time. Plus it'd take me millenniums to save for, at least the 15" model. The base model isn't what I'm wanting because it doesn't have dedicated graphics or a quad core processor.

 

[mattbaar26]

Why not get a macbook pro and an external display? Then you could just buy a keyboard and mouse if you really wanted a "desktop experience"

 

[talmy]

I already have Sony Vegas Pro 10, I got it as a Christmas gift with my HP Envy. I feel that it isn't very feature rich and it isn't capable of motion tracking without this unusually expensive plugin. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Final Cut Pro X is capable of motion tracking and applying CGI effects by default, something that Vegas isn't capable of by default without a lot of work.

I know I don't do video editing often, but when I do (for YouTube) I like software that is extremely feature-rich and flexible. Vegas is flexible but I feel as if it's not feature-rich.

Besides, I want to get myself into that professional CGI scene. My goal is to eventually make effects like Tron Legacy sometime in the future.

You really would want FCPX + Motion. If it's just a matter of learning, any current Mac will run it. Consider a Mac mini, with non-Apple mouse, keyboard, and display. Unless you are in a position where you will be making money from this right off the bat, with your finances go as cheaply as possible. You can always replace it in the future.

 

[LOLZpersonok]

Why not get a macbook pro and an external display? Then you could just buy a keyboard and mouse if you really wanted a "desktop experience"

But wouldn't that be quite expensive? Or would I need to buy an adapter to hook it up to my LG 1080p monitor?

----------

You really would want FCPX + Motion. If it's just a matter of learning, any current Mac will run it. Consider a Mac mini, with non-Apple mouse, keyboard, and display. Unless you are in a position where you will be making money from this right off the bat, with your finances go as cheaply as possible. You can always replace it in the future.

What is the motion part? Is it like some kind of extension for the program?

I'm gonna be frank with you, but in all complete honesty I'm not too keen on the Mac Mini...Sure it's nice and cheap but for that money I'd buy a PC with that because I'm an idiot and wouldn't need another PC.

 

[Tylers86]

Greetings,

Just wanted to let you know, I read your whole post and want to give you some humble advice, but first I want to address your battery statement quickly.

Unplugging your laptop when it is full so it begins another discharge is NOT the way to maximize battery health. You should absolutely keep your laptop plugged in to minimize the amount of discharges it goes through. There is the term "depth of discharge" to describe how much percentage of a discharge your battery has discharged, 100% being 1 full cycle of a, lets assume, 1000 cycles rated. By continuously unplugging your laptop, you are engaging in more cycles than are necessary. Keep that bad boy plugged in. See more here

http://lifehacker.com/5789794/avoid-frequent-discharges-to-extend-your-phone-or-laptops-battery-life

Moving onto editing.

The best thing about an iMac is that big ass screen. High resolution, pretty accurate color reproduction and really really bright. The worst thing about it is its lack of expandability. I would take a guess and say you are probably bringing in video from cameras the likes of DSLRs, GoPros or other modern consumer grade cameras.

In this case, the format you are ingesting is h.264, which all of the modern NLEs will edit natively. However, the complexity of the compression on h.264 can be *crushing* to decode by the editor. The more CPU power, and now, GPU acceleration, the better. Lots of RAM helps to, and an iMac can be loaded up with a sweet ass i7 and lots and lots of RAM.

However, in order for you to get additional Hard drives for use as scratch disks, you have to go through Thunderbolt. Right now, the market for Thunderbolt peripherals is narrow in scope and are expensive. If your skeptical about the benefits of a scratch disk, than you might be deficient in your understanding of media production.

I personally have never used FCPX. I think it looks interesting and has come quite a way since it orginally debuted. The videos I have seen make me a little cautious about its time line philosophy, and I wonder if it will truly define FCP's future as it looks to be quite a departure from cutting traditionally.

To be clear, I do not cut video primarily for a living. I work as a multimedia producer, emphasizing on motion graphics and photography. I use After Effects, Lightroom and Photoshop on the daily, but once I get all my After Effects work comp'd up I bring them into Premiere. Maybe 10% of my time per week is spent cutting in Premiere. I work on a HPz420 with two big IPS panels at work and a Dell XPS 8700 at home. Our whole office (web design company) is Windows 8. We have grown this way and prefer it over out fitting our work stations with Macs. We do have the white macbook for compatibility testing for websites, but thats all. Its known as "Ol' Clifford", cause its a slow old dog.

I started cutting skateboarding and mixed martial arts stuff 6 years ago on Power Director, went to Vegas, and shortly after went to Premiere which is where I sit now. It was this learning process that gave me the skills to get into the work force. I discovered After Effects some where in there and got way into it and although my career is nascent, it's my life blood and future.

Some of the benefits you might have by using OS X over Windows are things like more fonts out of the box, OS native color picker, usage of exclusive programs, and thats about all I can think of, there may be more. If there is any domain of computing that is demanding on your machines computational powers, its this kind of media production. Towers and big monitors rock.

And to respond about Motion. Motion is Apples compositing application. It is equivalent to Adobes After Effects. You can kind of think of them as photoshop for video, although they do a lot more than that.

 

[talmy]

In this case, the format you are ingesting is h.264, which all of the modern NLEs will edit natively. However, the complexity of the compression on h.264 can be *crushing* to decode by the editor. The more CPU power, and now, GPU acceleration, the better. Lots of RAM helps to, and an iMac can be loaded up with a sweet ass i7 and lots and lots of RAM.

FCPX will optionally transcode on import to a format friendlier for editing, especially needed on weaker systems. (In the consumer iMovie, this transcoding always takes place.) Since the OP is a hobbyist, he can sacrifice machine power and still have reasonable operation by waiting for the transcoding to finish. He certainly doesn't need to spend a month's income on a faster system.

 

[LOLZpersonok]

Greetings,

Just wanted to let you know, I read your whole post and want to give you some humble advice, but first I want to address your battery statement quickly.

Unplugging your laptop when it is full so it begins another discharge is NOT the way to maximize battery health. You should absolutely keep your laptop plugged in to minimize the amount of discharges it goes through. There is the term "depth of discharge" to describe how much percentage of a discharge your battery has discharged, 100% being 1 full cycle of a, lets assume, 1000 cycles rated. By continuously unplugging your laptop, you are engaging in more cycles than are necessary. Keep that bad boy plugged in. See more here

http://lifehacker.com/5789794/avoid-frequent-discharges-to-extend-your-phone-or-laptops-battery-life

Very interesting, I didn't know that, and since I do now I'll take it into consideration. Lately I've been discharging my battery and taking it out to use my laptop like a desktop.

The best thing about an iMac is that big ass screen. High resolution, pretty accurate color reproduction and really really bright. The worst thing about it is its lack of expandability.

I love having a big screen. I have a 21.5" LG 1080p monitor and when I use that with my HP Envy I feel like "how do I ever survive without this?" When playing games, having my 15" laptop screen is more than sufficient but I love the size of the screen.

I went to the Apple Store the other day and checked out an iMac there, specifically a 27" iMac. I found a 1080p clip from Tron Legacy on YouTube and let me say it looked just as good as my 55" LG TV, which, in other words, was absolutely brilliant. I think the screens on the iMacs are a big selling point.

I would take a guess and say you are probably bringing in video from cameras the likes of DSLRs, GoPros or other modern consumer grade cameras.

I wish. I'm actually taking in video from my iPhone -_-

I do have the intentions of buying a high-end camcorder (EEVBlog on YouTube has a camera of the same model I've been looking at, it's my ideal camera) so I can make more proper videos and do better skits.

However, in order for you to get additional Hard drives for use as scratch disks, you have to go through Thunderbolt. Right now, the market for Thunderbolt peripherals is narrow in scope and are expensive. If your skeptical about the benefits of a scratch disk, than you might be deficient in your understanding of media production.

I don't think I'd be using a scratch disk. A 1TB hard drive is more than enough for me (My HP Envy has a 1TB hard drive and even after having it for several months now I've still got about 725GB free, and that's including the 25GB recovery partition as well) and I usually just delete project files when I'm done with them anyways, or if I really want to keep it I just lock it away somewhere deep and dark on the hard drive.

I work as a multimedia producer, emphasizing on motion graphics and photography. I use After Effects, Lightroom and Photoshop on the daily, but once I get all my After Effects work comp'd up I bring them into Premiere.

That sounds pretty ideal to me. I want to be able to use a program, say like Blender 3D or something like that to create 3D models and use a program to apply them as CGI effects. I totally forgot about After Effects and now that I think about it, I must have it. Absolutely must. I've been seriously interested in creating a 'disaster' like video using clips recorded of scenes in my city with burning or destroyed skyscrapers. That'd be cool.

How well does Premiere work and what kind of things is it capable of? And what is Lightroom and what does it/can it do?

Some of the benefits you might have by using OS X over Windows are things like more fonts out of the box, OS native color picker, usage of exclusive programs, and thats about all I can think of, there may be more.

Use of exclusive programs (iMovie, GarageBand, Final Cut Pro, etc) is a big part of me wanting a Mac. I love playing with GarageBand on my Power Mac G4 but I can't go any higher than version '08. Plus it's slow in quite a few areas.

 

[mattbaar26]

But wouldn't that be quite expensive? Or would I need to buy an adapter to hook it up to my LG 1080p monitor?

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't all you need a thunderbolt to hdmi adapter? It's about $10 on amazon, I got mine there and have had no problems. Of course you could buy an "apple certified" one but that is like $30 or $40 I think

 

[Tylers86]

Very interesting, I didn't know that, and since I do now I'll take it into consideration. Lately I've been discharging my battery and taking it out to use my laptop like a desktop.



I love having a big screen. I have a 21.5" LG 1080p monitor and when I use that with my HP Envy I feel like "how do I ever survive without this?" When playing games, having my 15" laptop screen is more than sufficient but I love the size of the screen.

I went to the Apple Store the other day and checked out an iMac there, specifically a 27" iMac. I found a 1080p clip from Tron Legacy on YouTube and let me say it looked just as good as my 55" LG TV, which, in other words, was absolutely brilliant. I think the screens on the iMacs are a big selling point.

I would agree with you on the screen as a selling point. Considering it and the computer itself, the iMac is a seriously good deal, particularly for designers staying in illustrator/photoshop and casual users. However, you can start to run into some short comings for multimedia.

I wish. I'm actually taking in video from my iPhone -_-

I do have the intentions of buying a high-end camcorder (EEVBlog on YouTube has a camera of the same model I've been looking at, it's my ideal camera) so I can make more proper videos and do better skits.

Ah, got ya. Well sounds like you are working with some friends, so maybe someone will have or acquire a camera in the mean time.

I don't think I'd be using a scratch disk. A 1TB hard drive is more than enough for me (My HP Envy has a 1TB hard drive and even after having it for several months now I've still got about 725GB free, and that's including the 25GB recovery partition as well) and I usually just delete project files when I'm done with them anyways, or if I really want to keep it I just lock it away somewhere deep and dark on the hard drive.

Thats not what the scratch disk is for. Hard drives are mechanical, and act kind of like a record player in the sense they have a needle that seeks to the discs where the data lies. Speaking relatively, they read/write some what slow in regards to the high bit rates of digital media. Having one hard drive running your OS as well as any programs running that need to access data on that hard drive will keep that HDD occupied. When you have multiple hard drives, say one for OS and one for "scratch", the scratch HDD sitting idle until it is called upon, at which time it is engaged for read/write activity solely for the purpose of serving your media application. In short, more power!!

Sadly, the iMac HDD is only 5400 RPM, as well. Atleast it has been in the past, perhaps it has been updated now. So you may only have one HDD and no scratch disk option, and a rather slow one at that. Fusion Drive sounds interesting, but you will end up paying a lot for it at high capacities.

That sounds pretty ideal to me. I want to be able to use a program, say like Blender 3D or something like that to create 3D models and use a program to apply them as CGI effects. I totally forgot about After Effects and now that I think about it, I must have it. Absolutely must. I've been seriously interested in creating a 'disaster' like video using clips recorded of scenes in my city with burning or destroyed skyscrapers. That'd be cool.

How well does Premiere work and what kind of things is it capable of? And what is Lightroom and what does it/can it do?

After Effects would be what you would be bringing your 3d renders into for compositing into other footage. AE is a rockin' tool, I've been feeling up her skirt for the past few years and its really paying off, enough for me to be marketable with it, anyways. Its gone through some huge advancements the past few revisions and now has CineWare, a sort of lite Cinema4D application built into it. Its amazing what can be acheived with just AE.

When getting into this stuff, your starting to go even beyond the specs that might be suitable for an HD video editing rig into serious computer territory. Those HP Z work stations are what you would start to look at to improve your efficiency and render times. Im confident youll make due OK with an i7 iMac at first, though. Perhaps the new Mac Pro will prove to be a worthy purchase.

As for Premiere, it was rather neglected up until CS5. Since then, it has gone through 4 revisions and is nothing less than a fire breathing dragon. Adobe has "Dynamic Link" between Pr and AE, so you would create lets say animated titles in AE, save the project, then bring that project file into Pr and drop it in the time line. No rendering!! And, changes made on the fly in AE carry over to your Premiere project in real time. Its wicked and saves A LOT of time for me. Nvidia GPUs are leveraged by Adobe's Mercury Playback Engine to deload your main CPU of responsibility, freeing it up and again, providing performance gains.

 

[LOLZpersonok]

How well does Final Cut Pro X and Adobe After Effects for example run on the Intel Core i5, 21" iMac with Intel Iris graphics?

 

[boomdog]

I would get a retina display MacBook Pro, but it lacks a CD drive and I'm only willing to have an external CD drive with a desktop so I don't need to carry it with the computer all the time. Plus it'd take me millenniums to save for, at least the 15" model. The base model isn't what I'm wanting because it doesn't have dedicated graphics or a quad core processor.

All you would need is to purchase a external drive for home use and then simply find a piece of freeware / software that can create an iso image of the disk that can be stored on your hard drive. Once you have the iso image, you'll then need a second piece of software that can create a virtual disc drive in which to mount the iso image. Some pieces of software can manage both of those tasks, for PC i would highly recommend poweriso. I am a teacher and our school has multiple site license disks of which we only one copy, in order to allow everyone access to them, we have them stored as iso files on the network and simply mount them virtually when needed. I'm not sure whether poweriso has a mac version or what an alternative is but there must be one.

There is no need to be carrying around CD's/DVD's or a external drive these days!

 

[themumu]

Going on a slight tangent here, but you mentioned you don't like Apple mice and Macbook touch pads - try a trackball mouse. Something like this, although there are quite a few good ones:

http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-Slimblade-Trackball-USB-K72327US/dp/B001MTE32Y

Once I tried a trackball, I couldn't look at regular mice with a straight face. They are much more ergonomic and comfortable.

 

[Consultant]

For MacBook Pro:

• It's portable and I can take it with me.
• It's small and convenient.
• It has an optical drive built-in.
• I'm pretty sure I could upgrade the RAM in the future if I wanted to.

Against MacBook:

• Because it's portable and my main computer is a laptop, I wouldn't use it for much else other than video editing. I've been able to get 11 hours on a single charge on my HP Envy's battery and because the MacBook doesn't last as long I won't use it as much.
• It costs more with the hardware I want.
• It's easy to be stolen.
• I hate the touchpads on MacBooks. I'm used to keeping my thumb on the right and left click buttons and I'm not used to the whole thing being a button. For me, it's very awkward and with what I do, I'll end up activating a multitouch gesture by accident.
• I can drop it and break it. I'm always scared I'm going to drop and break my HP Envy.

The HP Envy with the battery life you mentioned uses Atom processor. That's basically an overpriced netbook.

Yes, a professional machine can cost more than a netbook.

Anything can be stolen. You might want to move / get better acquaintances / better security if you think theft is going to be an issue.

The touchpads on MacBook Pro is best in its class. It's why all the PC laptops are trying to include something similar. For video editing, you might want to use a mouse anyway. But the Apple laptop trackpad also has option to make it similar to PC trackpads.

Get a good bag if you worry about dropping it. There are some impact resistant bags too. The Apple laptop unibody construction is much stronger than the knockoffs btw.

 

[theluggage]

Against iMac:
[*]The RAM is probably not user upgradeable.

it is upgradable on the 27".

[*]Apple isn't clear on it's Buy Now page on whether it comes with dedicated graphics or not.

The higher-spec 21.5" model and the 27" model do

[*]No optical drive.

Most USB optical drives should work - you don't have to shell out for an Apple one.

I'm finding that I hardly ever need one - I swapped out the Optical Drive in my MacBook Pro for a second hard drive & I've never looked back.

[*]The mice tend to make my hands sore. I know because I've sat and used my friend's Magic Mouse or whatever it's called for a while and it makes my hand ache.

You are not alone in that opinion, but pretty much all PC mice work fine with Macs - scroll-wheels and all - so it would be pretty dumb to let the default mouse influence your computer choice.

What I'd do is order the wired keyboard & get a PC mouse that comes with one of those tiny USB dongles, which will tuck away out of sight in one of the keyboard's USB-out sockets.

If ordering a new iMac, I'd get the Magic Trackpad instead of the mouse (its a no-cost option - and well worth a try) and use a third-party mouse.

Against MacBook:
[*]I hate the touchpads on MacBooks. I'm used to keeping my thumb on the right and left click buttons and I'm not used to the whole thing being a button.

It takes a bit of getting used to, but after that it blows other laptop touchpads out of the water. Until the new-style touchpads came out, I always needed to carry a mouse around - not any more.

Or, as noted above, just buy any third party mouse.

 

[LOLZpersonok]

The HP Envy with the battery life you mentioned uses Atom processor. That's basically an overpriced netbook.

Yes, a professional machine can cost more than a netbook.

Anything can be stolen. You might want to move / get better acquaintances / better security if you think theft is going to be an issue.

The touchpads on MacBook Pro is best in its class. It's why all the PC laptops are trying to include something similar. For video editing, you might want to use a mouse anyway. But the Apple laptop trackpad also has option to make it similar to PC trackpads.

Get a good bag if you worry about dropping it. There are some impact resistant bags too. The Apple laptop unibody construction is much stronger than the knockoffs btw.

My Envy doesn't have an Atom processor. It doesn't even use an Intel processor. My Envy is a 15", full-size laptop with a quad core AMD A10 and dedicated graphics, so it's no 'overpriced netbook'. AMD has been going the way of power conservation and has been decreasing performance to save battery life.

If someone was to steal an iMac, they'd probably have to break into the house (unless I just bought it and they take it from my car) to steal that and with an alarm system that's armed when we're away or when we're asleep and living in a good neighborhood decreases the chances of it being stolen quite a bit. A laptop is something I'd probably bring all over the place with me, so it could be wrenched from my hands for all I know.

It doesn't matter if the touchpads on the MacBooks are the best in the class. I don't like them. Unlike a conventional PC laptop the click buttons are not separate from the touchpad as they are on my HP Envy and because I'm so used to it it's very awkward for me.

And for the last part, there's paranoia factoring into me not wanting to get a MacBook because I might drop it. Don't forget about the screen, they're probably easy to break or crack the glass.

 

[LOLZpersonok]

it is upgradable on the 27".


The higher-spec 21.5" model and the 27" model do



Most USB optical drives should work - you don't have to shell out for an Apple one.

I'm finding that I hardly ever need one - I swapped out the Optical Drive in my MacBook Pro for a second hard drive & I've never looked back.



You are not alone in that opinion, but pretty much all PC mice work fine with Macs - scroll-wheels and all - so it would be pretty dumb to let the default mouse influence your computer choice.

What I'd do is order the wired keyboard & get a PC mouse that comes with one of those tiny USB dongles, which will tuck away out of sight in one of the keyboard's USB-out sockets.

If ordering a new iMac, I'd get the Magic Trackpad instead of the mouse (its a no-cost option - and well worth a try) and use a third-party mouse.



It takes a bit of getting used to, but after that it blows other laptop touchpads out of the water. Until the new-style touchpads came out, I always needed to carry a mouse around - not any more.

Or, as noted above, just buy any third party mouse.

Okay, thanks. I would get a 27" for the screen and the upgradeable RAM, but it's not cheap and since I want to save fast because I hate my new job and want to quit as soon as possible so I don't want to spend months saving for a new computer.

I'd rather just use a regular PC mouse like you said. No touchpads for me if I get the iMac haha. Like the MacBook Touchpads I'm not keen on it.

I might use a regular non-Apple external CD drive. Works all the same I guess.

I don't understand what makes the touchpads on MacBooks so 'top-end'. Is it the gestures or the size? Neither concern me and the fact that the whole thing is a button drives me batty. The only gesture I'd use is the two finger scroll and my HP Envy does that already.

 

[jg321]

I'll admit to having skim-read the majority of the replies, but I'm just about to take delivery of a 21.5" iMac, which will replace my MacBook Pro with external display as my "desktop" computer.

I've tried using the BookArc stands etc but I'm just not comfortable with a machine being both a portable and a desktop (for home use I mean - I do this at work!). I'm looking forward to having dedicated machines for both tasks, and yes I do have an iPad!

As this MBP is only 2 1/2 years old, I won't be replacing it for some time yet, but when I do, it will be a true "portable" like the MBA. I believe this is what you said would be an ideal solution for you, but it can of course be costly, especially if you need to spec up the iMac. I don't, and have gone for the base model.

Of course, this might end up not working for me, and I may have just spent a ton of money on something that I don't need, but I've got a good feeling about it! I'll try and report back, but I guess I'm saying that you may want to rethink, and see if there is any way you can go for a similar setup of iMac and MBA.

 

[Consultant]

My Envy doesn't have an Atom processor. It doesn't even use an Intel processor. My Envy is a 15", full-size laptop with a quad core AMD A10 and dedicated graphics, so it's no 'overpriced netbook'. AMD has been going the way of power conservation and has been decreasing performance to save battery life.

If someone was to steal an iMac, they'd probably have to break into the house (unless I just bought it and they take it from my car) to steal that and with an alarm system that's armed when we're away or when we're asleep and living in a good neighborhood decreases the chances of it being stolen quite a bit. A laptop is something I'd probably bring all over the place with me, so it could be wrenched from my hands for all I know.

It doesn't matter if the touchpads on the MacBooks are the best in the class. I don't like them. Unlike a conventional PC laptop the click buttons are not separate from the touchpad as they are on my HP Envy and because I'm so used to it it's very awkward for me.

And for the last part, there's paranoia factoring into me not wanting to get a MacBook because I might drop it. Don't forget about the screen, they're probably easy to break or crack the glass.

Please find a reputable review of the HP 15z

Here's an example:
"The AMD chip here, while a quad-core chip, isn't as fast in our benchmark tests as even the mainstream Intel chips found in other budget laptops."
http://www.cnet.com/laptops/hp-pavilion-touchsmart-15z/4505-3121_7-35616239.html

The battery life of the HP Envy is much shorter than the MacBook Pro. And that HP is running a "slower than budget laptop" CPU.

 

[jg321]

I'm not sure I like where this thread is headed - but seriously, are AMD processors even a viable option these days? I mean sure, for something that my parents might use once in a while they're probably OK, but really? You hardly hear of AMD processors these days.

 

[LOLZpersonok]

Please find a reputable review of the HP 15z

Here's an example:
"The AMD chip here, while a quad-core chip, isn't as fast in our benchmark tests as even the mainstream Intel chips found in other budget laptops."
http://www.cnet.com/laptops/hp-pavilion-touchsmart-15z/4505-3121_7-35616239.html

The battery life of the HP Envy is much shorter than the MacBook Pro. And that HP is running a "slower than budget laptop" CPU.

I'm perfectly aware of it being slower, as I said earlier they've been decreasing performance to increase battery life.

And no, my battery life is not much shorter than the MacBook Pro. As I said earlier I can often get 11-12 hours on a single charge and I'm yet to see a MacBook Pro get that.

 

[theluggage]

I don't understand what makes the touchpads on MacBooks so 'top-end'. Is it the gestures or the size?

- Size
- Glass surface, nice to use
- Gestures, e.g. 3-fingers to drag (that's the one I find most useful, you have to enable it), 4-finger swipes for multiple desktops, show desktop, show all windows etc.

Agree that you have to re-train your hand so that you don't try to 'click' with your thumb (which registers as a multitouch gesture and causes all manner of fun) - I've encountered people with that problem. Personally, I could never bear to use lesser trackpads, so my thumb probably didn't get 'trained'.