To everybody who wants Flash on IPad

Discussion in 'iPad' started by gadget123, Sep 17, 2011.

  1. gadget123 macrumors 68000

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    #1
    See here:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14949869

    Windows 8 tablets will avoid it. Wonder what this means for Android Flash could be seen as pointless and IPad sales could keep going up anyway?

    So looks lie HTML 5 is the future Flash is last years news.
     
  2. radiogoober macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    100% agree. Flash's grave is dug, and the coffin is being lowered.
     
  3. TM WAZZA macrumors 68000

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    #3
    Flash isn't really efficient, it's a battery hog. Trust me I had it on my S2 and Galaxy Tab 10.1. I sold them
     
  4. petvas macrumors 601

    petvas

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    #4
    I don't like Flash, but till all websites stop using it, I would like it to have it on every device. The iPad's browser is seriously crippled without it. Even if you at first believe that the lack of flash isn't a major issue, when you actually start using the device for some serious surfing, you will eventually find one site that uses it and get disappointed that you will have to use a normal computer to see the site.
     
  5. anjinha macrumors 604

    anjinha

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    #5
    If all devices support Flash websites will never stop using it, because they won't have to. Since the iPad came out a ton of websites switched to HTML5 because the iOS market is so big.

    I'd prefer to keep it that way, even if I have to miss out on a Flash website once in a while.
     
  6. darngooddesign macrumors G3

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    #6
    In Metro mode. When you switch to the full Windows 8 browser you get Flash. So you get a choice, and that's what its all about.
     
  7. JeepGuy macrumors regular

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    #7
    You get a choice, you can choose to buy another tablet, simple as that. I can honestly say I don't notice the missing flash, maybe I'm just boring and don't visit those exciting flash web pages.
     
  8. psac macrumors 6502a

    psac

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    #8
    The worst was looking for a case for my new iPad on Amazon, and they had an embedded video for the product, and of course it was in flash. Couldn't view it. D'oh!
     
  9. HobeSoundDarryl, Sep 19, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2011

    HobeSoundDarryl macrumors 603

    HobeSoundDarryl

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    #9
    Same old, same old. Yes, in the future Flash will be totally obsolete. That future is way out there... way beyond the arrival of this new thing from Microsoft. All the tablets we use now and people will use when Microsoft releases this will be in landfills before we get to that future in full.

    At the same time, we'll probably be on HTML7 or HTML8 by that point in time too but there is no call for everyone to stop using HTML5, 4, 3, 2 or 1 now to help HTML7 or HTML8 get here sooner. Those still using websites written in HTML4, 3 etc are not dumb for using such sites on their iDevices (the other day I visited one of the original websites written in what might be called HTML1... and it was certainly nice that I could see that site rather than being locked out because it hadn't been re-done in HTML5).

    No doubt Flash has it's issues... but so does HTML5. Eventually, a whole world of websites- over 1 Trillion pages: http://www.tested.com/news/how-many-web-pages-exist-on-the-internet-today/2861/ will fully let go of Flash, HTML1-5, RealPlayer, Windows Media, Silverlight, Mp3, and so on. But between now and that point, it would be nice to have the OPTIONS for individuals wanting such options rather than having a corporation- even our favorite corporation- deciding for us as individuals. One should not be wrong for wanting to install software- even buggy, "crashes Safari 10 times a day", "burns my battery", etc software- if he or she desires it on their OWN computing device any more than anyone else is not wrong for choosing to install whatever software they want to install on their own computer. There are plenty of apps in the store right now that burns batteries faster, crashes from use, and so on but those are NOT blocked from being available to those interested in having them on their own iDevice. Just this ONE thing is singled out.

    And why is Microsoft "right" when they side with Apple but so wrong when they compete with Apple? It's much like how the patent system is stupid when it looks like it will work against Apple but is terrific when Apple is using it to flex it's patents against someone else.

    Don't like Flash for yourself? No problem. No one wants to force anything on you. But some of those interested in having access to the current world wide web "as is" on their iDevice might be interested in that OPTION for themselves. For those so against Flash, since such an OPTION would have no effect on you and your use of iDevices, who cares? If they want to crash their own Safari 10 times a day, so what? If they want to burn their batteries faster, so what? Etc. Them crashing their Safari or burning their batteries doesn't crash your Safari or burn your batteries.

    Individual options are good. Corporations deciding for everyone is not so good.
     
  10. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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    #10
    Why not support it as an option? Because nothing is free.

    Flash support will take resources away from much more valuable endeavors.

    It's a proprietary pig that is horrible on every mobile device that tries to support it today and the best thing we can do is to let it die.

    -t
     
  11. CMelton macrumors regular

    CMelton

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    #11
    Key word here is eventually. Suggesting that many sites do not use flash (or have both flash and HTML5 versions that are accessed by different browsers).

    One incredibly irritating site is the BBC news site. To watch the videos on the site I have to fire up the BBC News app and find it on there. What is the point? Why not just have it on both? (The news app doesn't have all the stories on it as on the website)
     
  12. HobeSoundDarryl macrumors 603

    HobeSoundDarryl

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    #12
    Interestingly enough, the Flash player is FREE for users interested in installing it.

    And given it's propagation and most mainstream standard for multimedia, animation and video on the World Wide Web, it is still THE way to do things that HTML5 is still far from doing and have that stuff playable on the vast majority of Internet-connected devices all over the world (except iDevices of course... but only because Steve chose to forbid it, not because it couldn't work on iDevices).

    Most importantly though, like any other "useless" app in the app store (for you or me), if it was available as an option, YOU wouldn't need to install it. And if the world of iDevice users agreed with your view of it, they wouldn't install it either (just like any other "bad" app tends to not get installed on many devices). When a superior technology replaces a buggy, battery burning, "crash my Safari 10 times a day" technology it does so because it is superior not because some corporation decides to forbid the established technology.

    For OS X to be a success did not require Apple to forbid the use of Windows for all users. Windows- buggy, "crashes 10 times a day", virus-loaded, resource hog, blah-blah-blah continues to run- and still dominate- while the better OS is growing toward replacing it. At some point in the future, OS X may be able to replace Windows. But I'm sure those who need or depend on Windows TODAY appreciates the OPTION to be able to use Windows now- even in Apple's endorsed bootcamp option- rather than being completely locked out of it.

    Individual choices should trump corporate mandates. If what the corporation believes really is the best way forward, it will happen anyway... because it is the best way forward.
     
  13. BaldiMac macrumors 604

    BaldiMac

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    #13
    You've participated in enough of these Flash threads to understand the counter-argument, so why are you pretending you don't?
     
  14. darngooddesign macrumors G3

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    #14
    Not a relevant comment.

    The assertion was that Flash was gone on Windows 8; its not when you launch the full browser.
     
  15. BaldiMac macrumors 604

    BaldiMac

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    #15
    Which would make sense. If you are already going to browse with a poor experience in a browser and desktop not optimized for tablets, you might as well throw Flash in there as well. :D
     
  16. HobeSoundDarryl macrumors 603

    HobeSoundDarryl

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    #16
    And you've participated in enough of these arguments so passionately for the other side that I've practically got you on ignore. I chime in to these because they are always overwhelmingly biased to however many believe Apple wants things to be. Those who go counter to an Apple view- like me on this particular issue- are practically vilified solely for having the desire for an OPTION not forced on everyone else NOT interested in that option. I- for one- would like to have that option; it would make a device that I own more useful for my own purposes.

    More simply, the pro-Flash crowd argues for individual choice. Go with that view and those- like you- who are so against having Flash on their own iDevices do not have the pro-Flash view forced upon them. This is not about forcing Flash player on everyone- just not blocking it from those that do want it. The Anti-Flash crowd seems to go with "no Flash for anyone because I don't want it" and that mandate should be forced upon everyone else too.

    Someday Steve may decide that all Mac software should only be available via the Mac store. Someday Steve may decide that only websites fully written in HTML5 will be accessible by Apple devices (HTML4 and backwards are all to be blocked). Or that everyone must use iCloud. Or he may decide that Vegan is the only way for Apple followers to live. Or he may decide that only black turtlenecks may be worn by Apple device users. And while I joke about these (hopefully), the concept is the same. Apple should not decide for us. We should decide for ourselves. It's just software... just like any other of the near countless apps in the app store. If one wants to burn their own batteries faster with some app download, who cares? If I want Angry Birds, etc, on my iDevice but someone else doesn't, who cares... we both get to use our iDevice however we want to use it.
     
  17. FloatingBones macrumors 65816

    FloatingBones

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    #17
    When you get to a website you really want to see, consider contacting the owner and telling him that over a quarter billion devices cannot directly access his website. Tell him that the tablet flavor of Windows 8 will not have Flash support, either. Tell him that Adobe itself is advocating eliminating the use of Flash on websites. Gently suggest to him that he needs to get his website up-to-date.

    If we start to educate websites that they are behind the times, then your problem will disappear that much more rapidly. We should soon reach a tipping point where it is painfully obvious to business that Flash's days on the web are done.
     
  18. petvas macrumors 601

    petvas

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    #18
    That won't change the fact that there are many websites that do not work well on the iPad and I am not only talking about flash. Especially sites with inline frames that have scrollable content do not work well...
    Most apps that exist for the iPad (especially news and sport apps) exist just because there is no flash support. If you had flash, you would delete at least 10 apps from your iPad...
    As I said before, I do not like it. It kills battery and makes even fast computers slow. I just wish I had the option to enable it when absolutely necessary...
     
  19. BaldiMac macrumors 604

    BaldiMac

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    #19
    Ignoring those you disagree with doesn't make for productive discussion.

    Please stop with the fanboy accusations. My view on Flash has nothing to do with Apple. I haven't used Flash since before the iPhone even existed. I support Apple's decision to ban Flash because it has led to more content being accessible to me. And that's the argument that I was pointing out that you choose to ignore.

    And there you go with the stereotypical BS. You are making up an irrational argument to make the people that disagree with you seem irrational. I don't think anyone should be forced to do anything. Ironically, it's you who are arguing to force your view on others. I'm arguing for real choice. Open standards.

    I don't think Flash is dead. I think it has it's place on the web. I just choose not to use it.
     
  20. FloatingBones, Sep 19, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2011

    FloatingBones macrumors 65816

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    #20
    Same old, indeed. In another thread, you challenged the quarter-billion iOS device number. In the process you managed to inject a clearly wrong number into the discussion. I noted your error and asked you to explain; you never did. You also used the wrong term "small minority" to characterize the number of Flash-free users. I asked you to justify that phrase; you never did.

    The real question, Darryl, is when will the marketplace hit a tipping point. When will the automobile dealers realize that it's just not cool to serve up inaccessible websites to an iPhone/iPad generation? When will all server vendors realize that their Flash-only streaming servers are now obsolete?

    Please cite a credible source explaining how this switching process will work. Show us something from Microsoft that says one can "switch" from Metro to PC-mode on an ARM tablet machine at a whim.

    For that matter, show us something that says an ARM tablet can be switched back and forth at all.

    When sites start paying attention to the quarter-billion iOS devices, of course they will start to alter their behavior -- and their content.

    When the sites go Flash-free, you will be able to delete those apps from your iPad.

    Actually, many vendors are smart enough to provide added value in their iPad apps. O'Reilly has their Safari Book Reader (unrelated to Apple's Safari Browser). Their iPad app offers offline reading of one book in your Safari library. That gives the app a decided edge on browser-only access of the Safari library.

    That would only have prolonged the pain and suffering.

    We can all be activists to accelerate the demise of Flash on the web. Education will help accomplish that goal.

    Educate a business today about the advantages of going Flash-free.
     
  21. darngooddesign, Sep 19, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2011

    darngooddesign macrumors G3

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    #21
    Show me a W8 Gold Master running on an ARM tablet.

    "Adobe’s platform general manager, Danny Winokur, posted an official response on the Adobe Blog addressing concerns regarding Flash support in Windows 8′s Metro UI. Winokur reminds that Flash will still be supported in the Windows 8 desktop interface, just not in the touch-friendly Metro tablet interface."

    So regular computers will run Flash just fine on Windows 8 and there are significantly more regular computers connected to the internet than there are tablets.
     
  22. fizzwinkus macrumors 6502a

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    #22
    you're essentially saying your previous statement is wrong because no one actually knows.
     
  23. darngooddesign macrumors G3

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    #23
    No. At no point did I differentiate between I5 and ARM tablets. I'm saying his statement is unproven because no one has seen an ARM tablet running W8. However, we have seen is an I5 tablet running an early W8 build and it plays flash content in desktop mode IE.
     
  24. HobeSoundDarryl, Sep 19, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2011

    HobeSoundDarryl macrumors 603

    HobeSoundDarryl

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    #24
    baldi, whatever. We've already had this argument. I'm not interested in repeating it here (and thus won't).

    I'm completely for the OPTION for individuals to be able to install a Flash player on iDevices they own and NOT forcing a Flash player on anyone else. Those that wouldn't want it for whatever reason would not install it. Net effect on them: nada. Those that do want it would get more utility out of hardware they own.

    I can only see an option to choose for oneself as better than some corporation- even our favorite corporation- choosing for everyone. That lots of people on MacRumors agrees with the latter is fine too. But it doesn't change the fact that some- myself included- would rather get to choose for themselves than have others choose for them.
     
  25. HobeSoundDarryl, Sep 19, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2011

    HobeSoundDarryl macrumors 603

    HobeSoundDarryl

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    #25
    Floating, just like with Baldi, I'm not going to rehash the arguments in the other thread here. The quarter billion number you present pretends that it's all unique users rather than recognizing that many of those units are the same people buying newer iDevices as upgrades come out. It's not 250 Million unique iDevice users; the number you reference is all iDevices made to that point in time. Do you really believe that all iDevices ever made are all still in use by individual users or is there no room to believe that maybe original iPhone users have updated to a newer iPhone(s), that iPad1 buyers have upgraded to iPad 2s, that iPod Touch users have bought newer touches? Yes, the total units ever made tally may indeed by 250M+, but if I've upgraded iDevices- say- 3 times, it's not that I'm 3 unique users using iDevices (I'm 3 of those 250M+). Some people upgrade with every new version of every iDevice. They might be 5, 6, or 7+ of that 250M+ tally. Unique users is not equal to total units ever made.

    As to "small minority" that was in reference to the concept that one cannot fully embrace HTML5 as a complete replacement for Flash now if they want to do so. If we waved a magic wand to today and made all websites everywhere HTML5, only a small minority capable of displaying HTML5 sites could access them. If the lack of Flash on an iDevice makes that user feel like part of the Internet is broke, HTML5 suddenly in place everywhere would make tons of users feel like the whole Internet is broke.

    What do I mean by that? Go see stats for what kinds of browsers people use- not just Apple people but all people everywhere. The vast majority of people are not on the latest & greatest browsers and are instead on older browsers that will choke on HTML5 if it was suddenly everywhere today. I explained that well but you ignored that fact.

    Once I recognized that you would only see "facts" that supported the anti-Flash view and ignore "facts" that were contrary, I realized that argument was futile to continue there... and here.

    Anyone who believes the total number of iDevices ever sold are all still in use and are all being used by a unique user (thus 250M+ unique users) should buy your arguments about impending tipping points, etc. Anyone who can't do simple searches for independent information to see the vast majority of people are still using browsers that don't work well- or at all- with HTML5 can also just believe that HTML5 is a complete replacement for Flash today if all websites everywhere would just comply with the mandate. But I'm sure that objective minds are smart enough to recognize that maybe the same persons have bought updated iDevices over the years and that they can see that an awful lot of the Internet still connects through browsers like IE8, 7 and 6 (which mostly or completely choke on HTML5 + CSS3 + javascript).

    I'm done here. Objective minds should seek out such information for themselves.
     

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