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To what extent do you think lack of 2 year subsidy will impact US iPhone sales?
- Thread starter thadoggfather
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You just pointed out yourself that the subsidy was something in the order of $18/month or so, so clearly getting a $25/month discount saves more money, right?
That wasn't me. And losing subsidy or not, what does that matter as far as getting $25/month off compared to before when you weren't getting it and only getting around $18/month to cover the phone.
I'm not sure if we are talking about the samething.
Are you talking about the $25 penalty for taking a subsidy on a MSV plan?
Cuz AT&T changed their pricing between the old familytalk plans (where you get a 18.75 mo discount for subsidy after you manually calculate it) and new msv plans. So on the MSV plans it's better to not take a subsidy / 2 year contract. But an old familytalk plan with subsidy is/was often times cheaper than a new MSV plan + next/full price.
Im talking about when I was upgrading I've compared the total cost to me of going with a 2-year contract (and subsidy with with) vs. going with an installment/financing plan and the latter was somewhat cheaper in the end. Thus the point that I was making earlier that there are cases when going with the subsidy would end up costing at least somewhat more. Mainly depends on the plans and lines people have and their situations essentially.
I'm talking about what something would cost me, providing an example where one option would be less expensive than another in comparison. It's not always that one or the other option is better, it can depend.
You are comparing MSV plan where it was a ~50 savings if you pay $25 for each extra line and where subsidy costs more if you pay $15 plan. For most people on the new MSV plans it maked sense to do with NEXT or full-price. That's the way these plans are designed. (well used to, cuz now it's NEXT only). I already know this.
I was comparing the old FamilyTalk plans where the subsidy is built-in to the new MSV plans (either 15 or 25 per line fee).
So basically we are taking more about differences in plans and their prices and not as much about subsidy or installment payments. Sure, planes and prices have been changing, as has generally been the case.
Here's how I did it, since we actually do buy phones:
A two-year contract cost each of us $82.30 a month.
A MSV plan costs each of us $58.04 a month.
We each save $24/month on the MSV plan.
If you want to see the math behind that, here you go:
Subsidy cost at two years:
$ 995 = $199 upgrade fee x 5 lines [new phones]
$8999 = ($74.99/month x 24 months) x 5 lines [service]
--------
$9994 (total cost of service + new phones for 5 lines)
$83.23/month per line
MSV cost at two years:
$1920 = ($80/month 20GB data plan <includes FAN discount> x 24 months) [service]
$1800 = ($15/month access fee x 24 months) x 5 lines [service]
$3245 = $649 phone x 5 lines [new phones]
--------
$6965 (total cost of service + new phones for 5 lines)
$58.04/month per line
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People are so blinded that att had to change the mobile sharing multiple times.
You aren't "saving" $25/month by doing BYOD or next. You are "saving some imaginary $25 or whatever price att sets as the price of the access fee in addition to the mobile share price.
Remember the origins mobile share? It was like $30/line access fee (for those with 4 lines or more and 10gb). That's with a subsidy worth $22/month! Upgrades every 20 months with a $450 discount. $450/20 equal $22.50
http://www.att.com/gen-mobile/press-room?pid=23084
So do the math. Original mobile share 4 lines
$120/10gb plus $30x4 lines (includes subsidy $22.50 per line per month) upgrades every 20 months.
That's $4800 (minus $1800 in subsidies ). That's $3000 cost for 4 lines adjusted for susidies every 20 months.
Now look at the "cost savings" with ur BYOD when att jacked up the smartphone access fee to $40. (They essentially raised the access fee by $10/month per line).
$100/10gb (yes I know there is limited time 15gb promo). But the real price without promo is $100/10gb plus $15/line no subsidy.
The math is $160 X 20 months. Equals $3200.
So ATT has managed to tricked everyone getting rid of the subsidy and u end up paying $200 more over 20 months with their so called mobile share without subsidy.
Just amazes me how att can raise prices and people think they are getting good deals.
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I don't understand your math. It's very counter intuitive.
I was paying $250 /mo for FamilyTalk 1400 minute plan (2 UDP, 2 2GB, 1 200MB) w/ %25 FAN. Now there are 5 subsidies (18.75 per month) so 93.75 subsidy savings. 250-93.75 = 156.25 net cost per month. In other words as long as I got new iPhones each year I was only paying 156.25 each month for service. Or 31.25 per phone. (technically higher cuz of that upgrade fee, w/e)
On MSV It'd cost me 150 a month for 15GB. Technically this is more than $156 because there are fees here. And unless I got the double data deal, this amount of data wouldn't be enough. Going up to any of the higher tier'd plans costs more.
No one is blinded by anything. The point that I have reiterated is that with the plan that I have going with a subsided phone would cost me more than going with a financed or bought outright phone. It's that simple. It can be different for different people and different situations of course, but what I was saying is that financing isn't just worse for everyone at all times. Now if you compare that with some plan from years ago that I had that gave me a small set of minutes and texts and unlimited data then sure subsidy makes more sense there. But that's an apples vs oranges comparison as that isn't the reality of what is available now.
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You didn't answer my question, did you have an old unlimited line with AT&T? From everything you've said. It doesn't seem like you are undertlike you are just comparing the subsidy on the current plans. What we are trying to tell you is AT&T had older plans with the subsidy too. And as they kept recalculate their plans, they keep making the subsidy less and less beneficial to the consumer until this month when they finally just removed it.
OK, let's dumb it down to a per-person basis. Maybe that'll help you.
Here is what a 2-year contract cost each person:
$199 for the phone
$1,800 for service ($74.99/month x 24 months)
----------
$1,999 total
$1,999 total (for two years) works out to a net price $82.39 per month, per person.
Here is what a MSV plan for 2-years costs each person:
$649 for a new phone
$384 for their share of the base data plan ($80/month x 24 / 5 (to get the per person cost))
$360 for their line access fee ($15/month x 24)
-----------
$1,393 total
$1,393 total (for two years) works out to a net price $58.04 per month, per person.
$82.39 (net monthly price of 2-year contract)
-$58.04 (net monthly price of MSV plan)
---------
$24.35 net monthly savings
The MSV plan saves each person $24.35/month compared the 2-year contract method.
[doublepost=1453225891][/doublepost]
That's ironic for you to say.
Yes, financing on an older plan doesn't make sense as the subsidy was built into it already. There really isn't much of a comparison with that, so I'm not sure why that would be compared. Again, it doesn't really matter what it could have been like with some old plan that isn't offered anymore it matters what it's like with the available options now. If we are just complaining about plans changing and prices going up and less and less options being there for no longer supported plans and all that, that's all good and fine, but that doesn't bring back any of it or change any of it, and that wasn't the part that I was addressing that is simply related to financing vs subsidy as it relates to what is actually available.
1st I prefer simple to dumb.OK, let's dumb it down to a per-person basis. Maybe that'll help you.
Here is what a 2-year contract cost each person:
$199 for the phone
$1,800 for service ($74.99/month x 24 months)
----------
$1,999 total
$1,999 total (for two years) works out to a net price $82.39 per month, per person.
Here is what a MSV plan for 2-years costs each person:
$649 for a new phone
$384 for their share of the data plan ($80/month x 24 / 5 (to get the per person cost))
$360 for the line access fee ($15/month x 24)
-----------
$1,393 total
$1,393 total (for two years) works out to a net price $58.04 per month, per person.
$82.39 (net monthly price of 2-year contract)
-$58.04 (net monthly price of MSV plan)
---------
$24.35 net monthly savings
The MSV plan saves each person $24.35/month compared the 2-year contract method.
[doublepost=1453225891][/doublepost]
That's ironic for you to say.
2nd You are making these numbers complicated by doing it per person, per 24 months and adding the cost of the device.
Take your total monthly price on familytalk - 18.75*lines for subsidy = net monthly cost for service only
Then take your current monthly cost - next payments (if any) = net monthly cost for service only.
Compare.
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These were individual lines, per my original post (below), which is why it's done per person.
2015 MSV plan rates save each of us (5 people total) $24 (each) every month, compared to how much we were paying per month for our iPhone lines priced out back in the FamilyTalk days.
In other words your savings come from being on individual plans and going to a "family" MSV plan and not from the MSV plan itself.These were individual lines, per my original post (below), which is why it's done per person.
2015 MSV plan rates save each of us (5 people total) $24 (each) every month, compared to how much we were paying per month for our iPhone lines priced out back in the FamilyTalk days.
To be clear, YOU hopped on a reply I left for C DM.
Neither of us were talking about FamilyTalk plans.
You replied in the middle of that with your 2c about the $25/month savings not being all that good because I didn't factor in the subsidy.
So I posted that math, showing where I did factor in the subsidy.
The reason we didn't jump on a FamilyTalk plan back then was because 750 minutes wouldn't have covered the usage between the five of us, and by the time you bumped to a level that worked back then, it wasn't cheap.
I thought it was obvious that the subsidy wasn't a good deal on MSV and only people still on older plans should even care about them.
I agree, but that seems like a non-sequitur.
I said:
You said:
So I'm kind of confused where the "subsidy wasn't a good deal on MSV" thought came from (because nobody was talking about subsidies on MSV plans), but that's cool.
Again. Read my post. The subsidy was good on the original mobile share plans if you had 4 or more lines.
ATT has kinda of rigged their mobile share to make it look like no subsidy is cheaper by INCREASING the rates and than claiming a $25 savings if you pay in full or next or BYOD.
The carriers will do what's best for them. And making plans cheaper PER LINE is not one of them.
Verizon stopped reporting PER LINE revenue a couple of years ago cause PER LINE revenue was going down.
It's all a shell game with carriers these days and "family plans".
If they just offer POSTPAID euro/Asia single line plans we wouldn't have this conversation.
They rely on post paid FAMILY plans for most of their consumer revenue.