Today was a very sad day...

[aphexist]

a short story

You're the same kid who said you got your G5 for your birthday....and you also said you paid for it. what's with the discrepancies?

Oh! You got Mac served!

I think the majority of people who spend there time on forums like this suffer from lusting after Apple computers, whether it be a Powerbook, G5, iBook, or whatever. I know I fall victim to this every few years.

If an adolescent Mac user comes from a wealthy family, I'm sure that person, after some whining and wheedling would have no great challenge convincing their parents that they absolutely need the latest and greatest technology.

Throught my four years of college, I observed an engineering student in my class and major that constantly showed up in class flaunting the latest trick Mac gear. He had a new Powerbook every year, and he would sit in the front of the class and gingerly remove it from the case during the first few weeks of class. I would watch him "work" on the laptop during class, and he would simply change settings or doodle something, occasionally browse the web. By the end of the semester he would be much more careless with the machine or not bring it to class at all. In my final semester, he slumped into the bookstore while I happened to be looking a the Apple displays. The computer salesman knew him on sight, and went to him. He was buying a new computer, asking about the newest Powerbook revision. I could tell that he couldn't stand the fact that there was something better out there that he didn't have. He said, "When I bought this [pointing at his scratched TiBook], I was the mac daddy. I just want to be the mac daddy again," trailing off pitifully. He actually said that. I waited around to watch him charge a new Powerbook to Accounts Receivable (aka "Parents are Paying").

Some people do it with cars, or stereo equipment, or even women. I felt a deep disdain and sneering disgust for this man who seemed to be weighing his worth in the fleeting pursuit of the latest computer hardware. Eww.

 

[SwitchingSoon]

He's a poser!!!! a poser i say!

 

[jimjiminyjim]

If you want to do recording, you're going to need the extra cash for your audio equipment. If you already have mics, speakers, amps, and a mixer, great - you'll still want software and hardware that can work on your computer.

For the price of your upgraded 15", you can get an eMac and quite a bit of music equipment. It's a clunker, but it can be carried around on occasion. I do it myself.

 

[goodwill]

So, age is often related to how powerful a computer someone needs.

Back to the topic...

Also, which P4 notebook is he talking about?

I am going to have to agree with musicpyrite on this one. I think age is irrelevant. I think its the power of the mind that beckons the strength and capacity of a great computer. Intelligence is blind to the physical pretentions you've stated.

As far as the P4, I do believe a young and old "aged" person can safely say that means Pentium 4.

What an antagonistic hearted selection of a few individuals we have today wouldn't you say folks? The kid wanted some advice, not bitterness and close minded-ness about what YOU consider to be always RIGHT about. So yes, his scenario is unfortunate from both ends of the stick, but if you want something bad enough in life, you will find a way to make it happen.

 

[rueyeet]

I'm going to be a music major in college, so this is an ideal computer for me.

There's your primary reason, right there. Most modern music is made on the Mac, and some music schools even require a Mac. A P4, home-built or otherwise, would be second-class in that industry. If you're going into creative fields like music or graphic design, Macs dominate...it's pretty much the "industry standard" in those fields.

Also, music is a fairly demanding application, requiring a lot of processing power and LOTS of hard drive space. GarageBand is known to require a pretty good system to run smoothly, and it's at the LOWEST end of music software. OS X itself is also happiest with a lot of memory. Your major provides you reason enough to trick out this machine.

Furthermore, if this computer has to help you make music for the next 6 years (whatever else you may want to try to do with it) then it will pay to make the investment now in better specs, so you won't be stuck replacing it by the time you graduate. A P4 won't fare so well.

Last but definitely not least, a current P4 of any description will not be sufficient to run the next version of Windows, according to preliminary expectations for Longhorn's system requirements. You'll either have to upgrade, or stay with XP as long as you keep your P4.

All of these are good, solid reasons you can give your dad.

I'll readily admit that, in spite of my definite pride in having bought my computers, cars, and my house without any help from my parents, I'm a wee bit jealous whenever I hear stories like this. But then I consider how lucky I was to have my college paid for, and the jealousy fades. Our parents do for us whatever they think they can, and should, and only your own parents can decide what they can and should do for you.

Make it up to us, JzzTrump22: Get out there and make some truly kick-ass music....with your Mac!

 

[JzzTrump22]

Thanks for all the help guys. My dad was very suprised when he read this thread. He decided this mac would be the best choice for me so we ordered it a few minutes ago. Thanks for all the help.

 

[cr2sh]

There's your primary reason, right there. Most modern music is made on the Mac, and some music schools even require a Mac. A P4, home-built or otherwise, would be second-class in that industry. If you're going into creative fields like music or graphic design, Macs dominate...it's pretty much the "industry standard" in those fields.

Look at what his post says.. it says nothing about "industry standards" it talks about how he wanted a powerbook to play games on (but his Dad can't know that) and he's a music major so he needs the power for GarageBand.

At what point did garageband become an industry standard? They make Pro Tools for the pc, and he's fooling himself by thinking that a g4 powerbook will still be blazingly fast in 4 years - it won't. In fact by mid-next year the laptop standard will switch quickly to 64-bit processing, pro-tools will take full advantage, he'll be accepted into his major and he'll have to buy a NEW machine to do it.

The first year of college is all pre-reqs anyways... Does he really need a powerbook for freshmen comp? The req'd history series? French?

No he doesn't. This is not the right time for him to be dropping $3k on a computer. His Dad should see that, I can see it in his post and I know it from my knowledge of college and apple.

I could ****ing careless if this kid gets his way (which I'm quite sure will happen), but to start a thread all pouty and childish and expect sympathy when most of us can see through his failed 17-year-old-logic.. no way. If you start a thread to complain about how your Dad is second guessing this major investment.. be prepared for people to take his side.

Why buy one now? We all know this is not the optimal time to invest in something so huge.. We all know g5 powerbooks are coming. What machine are you using now? Why do you HAVE to get this powerbook for graduation? Christ, college doesn’t even start till September/October, who knows what’ll happen between now and then. There are so many flaws here.. why would anyone take his side?

 

[jsw]

Thanks for all the help guys. My dad was very suprised when he read this thread. He decided this mac would be the best choice for me so we ordered it a few minutes ago. Thanks for all the help.

Hey, when all is said and done, you have a new Mac, and that's never a bad thing. Congratulations!

 

[musicpyrite]

Thanks for all the help guys. My dad was very suprised when he read this thread. He decided this mac would be the best choice for me so we ordered it a few minutes ago. Thanks for all the help.

Muahahah, chalk another up to Steve and Apple, only 95% of the world left.

So the PowerBook you bought, did you get it with the original specs like you said? 128 VRAM, 5400 RPM drive, ect?

 

[JzzTrump22]

Ok cr2sh, you seem to have some severe problems. What? Daddy didn't love you? I don't know why you keep trying to put me down. You make some good points though. I know this particular laptop will be behind industry standards in a few years. But that doesn't mean i won't use it anymore. Hell, i'm still on a 450 mhz P3, so i'm used to being "behind". I've never owned a brand new computer out of the box. I've always built them, so has my dad. This is my first laptop and my first mac. I would appreciate it if you keep your stupid comments to yourself. I don't need to read about some moron like you calling me some stupid kid who's childish. I think most people in here take my side when i say your the one acting like the child. It seems like your jealous of me because i'm getting something you didn't get when you were in the same position. I don't know what your past story is so i'm not going to jump to conclusions, unlike yourself who jumped right in and called me some stupid little kid that doesn't know anything. Oh and BTW, the g5's won't be out for a while so this is the perfect time to buy the g4 PB. It's probably not going to get another revision, so it's at it's "maturest" level.

 

[JzzTrump22]

musicpyrite, i got the 1.5 with the upgraded vram, upgraded hd, and downgraded to the combo drive.

 

[cr2sh]

Ok cr2sh, you seem to have some severe problems. What? Daddy didn't love you? I don't know why you keep trying to put me down. You make some good points though. I know this particular laptop will be behind industry standards in a few years. But that doesn't mean i won't use it anymore. Hell, i'm still on a 450 mhz P3, so i'm used to being "behind". I've never owned a brand new computer out of the box. I've always built them, so has my dad. This is my first laptop and my first mac. I would appreciate it if you keep your stupid comments to yourself. I don't need to read about some moron like you calling me some stupid kid who's childish. I think most people in here take my side when i say your the one acting like the child. It seems like your jealous of me because i'm getting something you didn't get when you were in the same position. I don't know what your past story is so i'm not going to jump to conclusions, unlike yourself who jumped right in and called me some stupid little kid that doesn't know anything. Oh and BTW, the g5's won't be out for a while so this is the perfect time to buy the g4 PB. It's probably not going to get another revision, so it's at it's "maturest" level.

I was simply pointing out that your reasoning is flawed. Children often present arguments in such a failing way. I apoligize if you took personal offense to it.

BTW, in those last two sentences of yours, you're actually arguing against yourself... incase you didn't know.

 

[JzzTrump22]

How am i arguing against myself? I stated the PB g4 is probably not going to get another revision and the g5's won't be out for some time. Now is the perfect time to buy, according to these forums. So i bought it. How am i agruing against myself?

 

[iJon]

alright this is getting out of hand. first off lets go back to his orignial question. he wasnt here to get told to shut up and accept what his dad gives him, he asked for advice on how to convince his dad otherwise. notice how he said money isn't an issue, so lets not make it an issue.

what you need to do is just show your dad that any one who is serious in the music business has a mac. as for the video card upgrade, why not, its only 50 more dollars. all you need to do is show how you can do more thigns with your mac as opposed to the pc. im sure if you make a good argument with your dad he will purchase your computer. he may just want to see you justify everything you need for your own benefit.

iJon

 

[JzzTrump22]

I justified why i'm getting it and what it will be used for. He knows macs are a lot better for music and video. I really don't even know why he was curious as to why i need this laptop in the first place. He knows the reasons. Well in the end he was sold and purchased it for me. It should get here no later then tuesday (6/29).

 

[iJon]

I justified why i'm getting it and what it will be used for. He knows macs are a lot better for music and video. I really don't even know why he was curious as to why i need this laptop in the first place. He knows the reasons. Well in the end he was sold and purchased it for me. It should get here no later then tuesday (6/29).

congrats on your purchase. should serve you quite well in school.

iJon

 

[Squire]

First of all, congratulations on completing your studies and making the switch. I'm sure you'll enjoy your new machine.

Secondly, I just want to make some comments on ideas presented by others here.

<Warning: A fairly lengthy rant follows.>

It seems that a serious number of people on this board are college students or high school students about to enter college. When I discoverd that it kind of dumbfounded me. A lot of those students are on their third powerbook rev or iBook and/or talking about how they are about to get a G5 "for university." Whether they're getting them from parents or their own savings seems to be about even. I know it's been a long time since I have been in college, and that a computer is a necessary tool for education, (probably the most important one, not counting a brain). A lot of these students seem not to be design or video students either. For a 19 year old this seems like an awfully expensive habit.

For the record I hardly came from a deprived home, and my job treats me well, but it's kind of funny that I'm stressing out over dropping the cash and justifying the need (or just plain want) for this stuff, replacing my poor old 4-year-old Pismo (and I actually edit video, though not as a day job) when there are all of these hi school/college students on their third powerbook getting g5s. I think it actually helps me justify it more I use this on my parents because they think I'm cra$y.

I have no grudge against 'em, nor do I think there's anything wrong with it, I just think it's interesting to hear someone trying to decide whether to get the 2 or the 2.5 G5 to replace their powerbook and find out they're 17.

p.s. Just ask your dad for the cash so you can choose what you want. Tell him it will help teach you how to spend money more wisely. Also write up a list of the features it has that are advantageous and how you will use them, back it up with urls from music sites, etc. It will help to see it in writing (looks more factual) and sometimes they like to see that you put some effort into this decision rather than just a case of the gimmees.

Above we have a well-written post that points out, for the most part, the seemingly growing trend of young people buying professional computer systems. It's not a shot at anyone; it's a statement of the changing times and furrina's perspective.

"I have no grudge against 'em, nor do I think there's anything wrong with it, I just think it's interesting to hear someone trying to decide whether to get the 2 or the 2.5 G5 to replace their powerbook and find out they're 17."

Age has nothing to do with how a powerful computer you need. According to you, only people 50 and over deserve to get a G5, and people under 21 deserve to get an eMac.

I really don't see how you came to that conclusion based on furrina's comments. He/She said it (this trend) was interesting. My reply below...

Age has nothing to do with how powerful a computer you want. Notice that I bolded "need" above. People often need a computer for work...to get money...to support their family. And, because work can only begin at a certain legal age (What is it? Sixteen?), significantly fewer young people need a really powerful computer.

So, age is often related to how powerful a computer someone needs.

Not necessarily, do you think there are any graphic arts people in college? Thoes are the kind of people who need power.

But I agree that significantly fewer young people need a suped-up computer for work. (not games) But there are some young people who need it.

I don't know if you meant that you don't need a powerful computer to do normal student stuff, (email, chat, music, word processing) but you could get by with a G3 iMac.

You basically state that you disagree with me and then go on to agree. I don't get it. My reasoning goes like this: a child does not need a top-of-the-line computer. In fact, a child doesn't need a computer period. As people get older, they are more able to justify the need for a computer. This ability to justify need reaches its climax when improved performance leads to improved productivity, leading, in turn, to the potential for more income. Before you reach that set of circumstances, a powerful computer can easily be perceived as a toy, a luxury. Please, people, read before you type your disagreement. I wrote:

So, age is often related to how powerful a computer someone needs.

I am going to have to agree with musicpyrite on this one. I think age is irrelevant. I think its the power of the mind that beckons the strength and capacity of a great computer. Intelligence is blind to the physical pretentions you've stated.

Very eloquent and all, but I think you should look up the meaning of the word need.

Sorry for the rant but I hate it when people either misinterpret my posts.

Squire

 

[jsw]

I think age is irrelevant. I think its the power of the mind that beckons the strength and capacity of a great computer. Intelligence is blind to the physical pretentions you've stated.

Hmmm. Poetic or not, I think it's an "interesting" argument that more "powerful" minds need great computers. Arguably, the more powerful the mind, the less powerful the computer need be, if it's needed at all. The computer serves to help the mind to visualize. The more powerful the mind, the less help it needs. I don't think Stephen Hawking spends a lot of time with powerful computers (aside from whatever is needed to help him communicate). Gary Kasparov doesn't seem to need them. Einstein and Newton did OK without them. Ray Charles seemed to play without them. And so on.

Powerful computers better simulate reality for the purposes of playing games, creating electronic music, simulating structures, etc. They augment the mind. However, they are just a tool, and the power of a person's computer or need for one - isn't necessarily directly proportional to the capability of their intellect.

And, BTW, what were the "physical pretensions"?

Anyway, JzzTrump22, congrats again. You're going to enjoy it!

 

[JzzTrump22]

Thanks!!! You know I will

 

[Squire]

Hmmm. Poetic or not, I think it's an "interesting" argument that more "powerful" minds need great computers. Arguably, the more powerful the mind, the less powerful the computer need be, if it's needed at all. The computer serves to help the mind to visualize. The more powerful the mind, the less help it needs. I don't think Stephen Hawking spends a lot of time with powerful computers (aside from whatever is needed to help him communicate). Gary Kasparov doesn't seem to need them. Einstein and Newton did OK without them. Ray Charles seemed to play without them. And so on.

Powerful computers better simulate reality for the purposes of playing games, creating electronic music, simulating structures, etc. They augment the mind. However, they are just a tool, and the power of a person's computer or need for one - isn't necessarily directly proportional to the capability of their intellect.

And, BTW, what were the "physical pretensions"?

Anyway, JzzTrump22, congrats again. You're going to enjoy it!

Nice points, jsw.

Thanks!!! You know I will

I'm not necessarily jealous, just envious. I'm looking forward to purchasing a nice PB some time in the next 6 months.

Squire

 

[furrina]

he was just curious as to why i needed such a powerfull machine. The main reason is recording. Me and my friends are trying to start a mini jazz band and we are going to need something with some power. Not a piece of junnk that will crap out on us.

A couple of things.

Re the quote above: This is what's called an "interest." If I were a parent I'd be happy if my kid had some, keeps them off the streets. But seriously, this person is interested in a tool, not a toy, and "priveleged" or not, it's hard to begrudge a young person who knows what they want and how they're going to use it. How many people out there have that legitimate a goal for all the trick gadgets?

He/she looks like a smart kid with a rational parent, which bodes well for the future.
Glad to see this one ended well. More music for all of us!

P.S. Thanks, Squire, for providing the cliff notes for those who need 'em.

 

[Riot_Mac]

I was so excited because my dad was taking me to the mac store to buy my first mac, a powerbook for graduation. So when i get to the store, i told the guy i wanted the 15" 1.5 with upgraded vram, upgraded hd, and to downgrade to the combo drive. The the worst sentence i ever heard came out of his mouth... "we can't cusomize like that in the store, if you want that you have to order online." So i go home and am getting ready to order online and then my dad starts to question me weather i really need this particular laptop and what i'm using it for that i need so much power. I told him garage band and photoshop and stuff like that which is true, but it's also for gaming. He hates video games and i love them. I can't live without them. He gets so pissed everytime he see's me in front of my xbox. So he can't know that. I know future games are going to require specs that i mentioned above. And this thing is going to last me a good 6 years or so. I'm going to be a music major in college, so this is an ideal computer for me. I tried explaining to him that it's a very good investment, it's well worth it. You get a lot for your money. Plus i can get the free printer right now with my student discount. Then he says "i put a p4 together for under 500, why can't you do that instead?" I really felt like killing myself at that point. Any body have some advice.... or comfort?

my parents bought me the dual 1.42 last year for graduation. how nice of them! to bad that other dudes parents didnt buy him a computer when he graduated... probably becuase he is an a$$.

 

[QCassidy352]

Of course you don't need a 1.5ghz laptop for school. That's nuts, all you're going to do for school is word processing, excel, some browsing, etc. All of the rest of the stuff you want to do (games, garage band, etc) is what requires the power. Honestly, a used iBook with a RAM upgrade would be fine for you. You could probably get that for $1100.

...
And of course your dad hates video games. He's going to spend $50k on your college educaiton over the next four years. He wants you studying, not playing games and wasting this opportunity. Leave your Xbox at home, and play games during the summer.

Jeez, kids today.

$50k? I hope you don't mean total. Try $40k... per year.

Second, you may notice that in his original post he said he will be using this computer for 6 years or so. Think back to the computer you had 6 years ago (beige G3?) - it probably seemed like a powerful machine at the time, no? Able to run everything? Maybe more than you needed, if you're not a graphics/video/audio pro? Well today, that computer sells for about $50 and can't run a damn thing that's currently being released, including the mac OS. That PB may seem excessive now, but in six years it probably won't be able to run the current OS; in three years it will seem slow and will be missing many new features.

When I started college (4 years ago) I was deciding between an imac DV 400 mhz and a G4 tower (350-400 mhz?). I went for the imac because the G4 was total overkill - how could I need that for my studies? Do you know anyone who considers a 400 mhz G4 overkill today? (that imac, btw, can't even support quartz extreme, a part of the OS - forget about any modern programs)

I don't understand the venom towards the original poster here. He wanted, and thought he was getting, a nice new mac in the apple store that day, and he couldn't get it. Not the worst tragedy in the world, but annoying. That was the point of the story, and if it were anyone but a kid, you all would have nothing but sympathy. Since when is "get a cheaper PC, because you don't really need a mac" the sentiment on these boards?

 

[CmdrLaForge]

Thanks for all the help guys. My dad was very suprised when he read this thread. He decided this mac would be the best choice for me so we ordered it a few minutes ago. Thanks for all the help.

Congrats. Good to hear you ordered it. But if you are interested in video as well why have you downgraded the superdrive ? You know that you cannot use iDVD with an external superdrive ? Just something to think about.

 

[JzzTrump22]

I don't have any reason to have a dvd burner. I don't think i will ever use it. It's nice to say that it's there, but why waste my father's money? I saved him $180 by downgrading. It doesn't bother me that i don't have it because i don't need it.