Top Stories: M3 Macs as Early as October, Beats Studio Pro, and More

[FlyingTexan]

I hate hearing this ****, Ive been waiting for a MBA 15" for years and I'm getting ready to buy one as soon as my case comes on the mail in 10 days. I don't want to get started on the M2 and then have to turn around in a few months and have to sell it and buy the M3. And very stupid to put it in the 13" first. 13" is too small.

There's always going to be a next great thing. Just buy what you want now. I've been very happy with my m1 13" mbp

 

[Realityck]

I hate hearing this ****, Ive been waiting for a MBA 15" for years and I'm getting ready to buy one as soon as my case comes on the mail in 10 days. I don't want to get started on the M2 and then have to turn around in a few months and have to sell it and buy the M3. And very stupid to put it in the 13" first. 13" is too small.

It never happens like that. You always end up waiting then getting something better so soon. Since the 15" M2 MBA just became available 1 1/2 months ago it not like in another 3 months you'll see a 15" M3 MBA. Apple doesn't update products they just released unless of something unusually wrong with that device.

 

[switz]

The TSMC plant under construction in Phoenix will NOT come on line in in 2023 but might be able to be used by sometime in 2025. Issue is lack of qualified USA personal to assemble the sophisticated equipment for the next generation processors.

Read this recently in the Arizona Republic newspaper

 

[Pinkyyy 💜🍎]

M3 Macs in 2023 are not happening.
March 2024 at the very earliest.
Feel free to downvote me but this is just absurd.
Analysts can't stoop any lower to get their dose of attention.

Yeah I agree. The 15" MBA just came out in June with M2, so it'd seem odd to only update the 13" model with M3 a few months later. Updating both the 13" and 15" models together with M3 at the same time would make more sense.

Not to mention, the Vision Pro hasn't been released yet and it'll be equipped with M2 according to what we saw in WWDC. The Vision Pro is a whole new product line, and it's more likely to come with the latest chip. So I don't really see the M3-equipped Macs coming out before the Vision Pro is out at the very least, which will be in early 2024.

Though who knows what Apple will actually do ? They've already surprised us many times in the past, so I'm expecting anything from them at this point.

 

[sdf]

Once you realize Bloomberg writers are paid for the micro manipulation of stock prices these articles make a lot more sense.

 

[DeepIn2U]

N3B is expensive and rumour has it there have been yield issues. Some are claiming that A17 will be N3B initially, and then will switch mid-year to N3E.

I understand that N3E is not design compatible to N3B, but at the volumes Apple ships, it makes sense to have A17 on two different processes, especially considering that A17 will be re-used in 2024 for iPhone 16 non-Pro. So, it could end up something like this:

N3B - 2023H2 A17
N3E - 2024H1 A17, M3, A18

A17 switching to different cpu process mid year meaning mid production? Lol man the users would be super PISSED at Apple. You think battery and bend issues and throttle was problematic for Apple? Wait until performance gains from mid production becomes known and proven - the returns and lawsuit would be sweet!

Not feeling iPhone this year for just USB-C and titanium on the pros. Like this is ALL Apple has to bring right?!

 

[klky]

Most of their attention was focused on the Ultra last time, I think. That said, I suspect cost/fab difficulties and the lack of a seeming true need for more power on the Watch are why they've chosen to continue iterating on the same SoC with just occasional upgrades to the other blocks.

That's fair enough. To clarify, I didn't mean to imply that the Watch needed more power but rather it shouldn't be the headline feature. A more powerful chip over time is a given. Hopefully that means there's a reason it's getting upgraded for the Series 9.

 

[EugW]

A17 switching to different cpu process mid year meaning mid production? Lol man the users would be super PISSED at Apple.

Users wouldn't notice any difference real world between N3B and N3E. And Apple has done this before. They had two different processes for A5 on completely different nodes (first 45 nm and then 32 nm, with the latter getting better battery life), and they had two different processes for A9 from two different companies (TSMC 16 nm and Samsung 14 nm, with the two functionally very similar).

 

[coachingguy]

Anyone else Tired of the "iPhone supplies MAY/WILL be constrained..." that we get every summer for the last 5-6 years... It's worked well for Apple, but come on!

Coachingguy

 

[phenste]

While it was already reported earlier in the year that the Apple Watch 9 update would be mostly iterative, typically as we get closer to September, new rumours start to surface. Besides finally getting a new processor, I've not heard anything else.

Has Apple really run out of ideas or are their current developments for the watch so ambitious that they simply need more time to flesh them out? Either way, this is a very long time (arguably 3-4 years) that the watch updates have been "iterative".

I have a feeling it's the latter—I've been fine with AW updates being as iterative as they have been, it's certainly not a device they expect people to upgrade every year (I went S0 -> S4 -> S8). their biggest goals with the device seems to be health-related, and the kinda sensors we've been hearing about (blood glucose, blood pressure, etc.) are (obviously) very ambitious from an engineering perspective.

we'll see in September; maybe they'll drop some big surprise. doesn't really happen these days with leak culture (ever since that dang iPhone 4 leak), but you never know. I was shocked by Emergency SOS via Satellite last year…and equally shocked to find it had been previously reported on (though only once, to my knowledge). they kept that relatively well under-wraps.

 

[phenste]

I hate hearing this ****, Ive been waiting for a MBA 15" for years and I'm getting ready to buy one as soon as my case comes on the mail in 10 days. I don't want to get started on the M2 and then have to turn around in a few months and have to sell it and buy the M3. And very stupid to put it in the 13" first. 13" is too small.

with how incredible the M-series is (and with due respect to your frustration, this would be a weird release cycle), I think you'd be perfectly well off with an M2. Apple is finally making computers that are built to last (again) now that they're not tied to Intel's…everything they've been doing for the last ~10 years. I'm running an M2 Pro and can't see myself upgrading for at least another 5-10 years.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Users wouldn't notice any difference real world between N3B and N3E. And Apple has done this before. They had two different processes for A5 on completely different nodes (first 45 nm and then 32 nm, with the latter getting better battery life), and they had two different processes for A9 from two different companies (TSMC 16 nm and Samsung 14 nm, with the two functionally very similar).

Id say better battery life is significant enough for users to notice - wouldn’t you? So there goes your statement.

The A9 difference

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/controlled-testing-supports-apples-claim-of-nearly-equal-iphone-6s-battery-life-with-tsmc-and-samsung-chips.1927965/

Juli Clover specifically stated

Aside from the Geekbench test, which saw a battery life difference of 28 percent between the two devices, the TSMC iPhone and the Samsung iPhone scored within two to three percent of each other. In Ars' opinion, in the real world, there's going to be little difference between a Samsung iPhone and a TSMC iPhone.

Arstechnica

So there are definitely circumstances under which the TSMC phone will last longer than the Samsung phone, but it's not a universal problem. A Samsung chip that's mostly idling or even one under modest CPU and GPU load, though, is going to behave in just about the same way as a TSMC chip. And the kinds of CPU-intensive work that the Samsung chip seems to struggle with just aren't that common on smartphones. Most of the time, iPhone 6S battery life should be similar no matter which chip your phone is using.

From 3653 to 4703 is considerable to notice in a few apps even back then.

This time around it’ll be more noticeable and I doubt Ars, MacRumors and Engadget would be able to help calm users as easily in this age than back then, but we’ll see.

In computing platforms chip manufacturers make it clear to the consumer, Apple has a tradition of hiding such details.

 

[EugW]

Id say better battery life is significant enough for users to notice - wouldn’t you? So there goes your statement.

The A9 difference

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/controlled-testing-supports-apples-claim-of-nearly-equal-iphone-6s-battery-life-with-tsmc-and-samsung-chips.1927965/

Juli Clover specifically stated

Arstechnica


From 3653 to 4703 is considerable to notice in a few apps even back then.

This time around it’ll be more noticeable and I doubt Ars, MacRumors and Engadget would be able to help calm users as easily in this age than back then, but we’ll see.

In computing platforms chip manufacturers make it clear to the consumer, Apple has a tradition of hiding such details.

Real world differences were nothing like that. Apple claimed the difference was a couple of percent. Probably the truth was somewhere in between but regardless, after the initial chip-gate brouhaha died down, people essentially forgot about it and went about their business.

Furthermore, N3B and N3E are likely closer to each other than TSMC 16 and Samsung 14 were. But if we are going to be talking about differences, N3E would be better than N3B overall anyway. ie. Moving from N3B to N3E won’t involve a regression. If there is any difference, it will actually be an improvement, several months later in the release cycle.

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[klky]

I have a feeling it's the latter—I've been fine with AW updates being as iterative as they have been, it's certainly not a device they expect people to upgrade every year (I went S0 -> S4 -> S8). their biggest goals with the device seems to be health-related, and the kinda sensors we've been hearing about (blood glucose, blood pressure, etc.) are (obviously) very ambitious from an engineering perspective.

we'll see in September; maybe they'll drop some big surprise. doesn't really happen these days with leak culture (ever since that dang iPhone 4 leak), but you never know. I was shocked by Emergency SOS via Satellite last year…and equally shocked to find it had been previously reported on (though only once, to my knowledge). they kept that relatively well under-wraps.

True. Personally, I'd be happy if Apple simply brought back titanium to the regular watch. Probably unlikely with the Ultra though.

 

[code-m]

I agree, they just released the 15 inch MacBook Air with M2 not even a full two months ago. I just can’t see them having that fast of an upgrade cycle on the Air.

People do realize that Apple has other product lines that utilize the M class silicon such as iMac which has not been updated with M2. I suspect later 2023 we see a M3 iMac and maybe 13” MBP M3. The M3 MBA might get pushed early 2024 with a M3P/M MBP release with MacStudio and MP months later.

Remember Apple introduced the iPad Retina and shortly after iPad with Lightening Connector so it is possible.

 

[mrr]

What is holding up the 27” iMac ?

 

[Gudi]

My take on this is that any node is getting milked for good.
N3B = A17 Q4 2023, M3 Q1 2024
N3E = A18 Q4 2024, M4 Q1 2025

Nonsense. If you can build a faster, smaller chip, which for sure gives you performance and battery life advantages over the competition and potentially even lower production costs at least in the long run, then you don't wait to "milk" the old node. Especially if you are a premium brand with a 40% profit margin that makes most of its revenue from products which are less than 12 months old. Apple will release devices with 3nm chips as soon as they are available in volume. They'd rather increase the price than wait for this technology to become old and obsolete. Remember, nothing can stop TSMC from selling 3nm chips to Samsung, if Apple doesn't want them anymore.

 

[Gudi]

What is holding up the 27” iMac ?

The M3 Pro/Max and the 32-inch display.

 

[gpat]

Nonsense. If you can build a faster, smaller chip, which for sure gives you performance and battery life advantages over the competition and potentially even lower production costs at least in the long run, then you don't wait to "milk" the old node. Especially if you are a premium brand with a 40% profit margin that makes most of its revenue from products which are less than 12 months old. Apple will release devices with 3nm chips as soon as they are available in volume. They'd rather increase the price than wait for this technology to become old and obsolete. Remember, nothing can stop TSMC from selling 3nm chips to Samsung, if Apple doesn't want them anymore.

iPhone will saturate any 2023 N3B volume.
Also, it's not like TSMC will come up with high-volume N3E before they have milked N3B for its money's worth themselves.
The whole roadmap has been slowed down. Deal with it.

 

[Gudi]

I agree 💯 Their lineup is set going into the holiday quarter, why risk it with a low yield supply of N3P when you have the threat of iPhone 15 shortages and stockpiling Vision Pro for a 2024 launch. People wishing for M3 this year seem to have these rose colored glasses regarding actual time tables. The analysts are just click-baiting at this point.

If the yield is low, you only equip the iPhone Pro with a 3nm chip and keep the regular iPhone on 4nm. This way there's no risk and you give customers one more reason to buy $1000+ phones. If the availability of these high-end phones can't keep up with demand, this even confirms their value proposition and makes them less of a commodity.

 

[gpat]

If the yield is low, you only equip the iPhone Pro with a 3nm chip and keep the regular iPhone on 4nm. This way there's no risk and you give customers one more reason to buy $1000+ phones. If the availability of these high-end phones can't keep up with demand, this even confirms their value proposition and makes them less of a commodity.

And if that's the case, and you can't even make enough A17 chips for 2 iPhone models, then you can see how the plans for 2023 M3 can go even further down the drain.

Accept it, my friend. Just let it go.

 

[Gudi]

Also, it's not like TSMC will come up with high-volume N3E before they have milked N3B for its money's worth themselves.

TSMC is even going to build a brand-new fab for 28nm chips in Germany, so they're not done with milking that old node either. New fabs exist additionally to old fabs, all the various chips are still sold for different purposes at different price points. There's a reason your toaster can talk to your toothbrush.

 

[Gudi]

And if that's the case, and you can't even make enough A17 chips for 2 iPhone models, then you can see how the plans for 2023 M3 can go even further down the drain.

Accept it, my friend. Just let it go.

If there's not even enough volume for two sizes of iPhone Pro, then only the 24-inch iMac will go on M3.

Accept it, my friend. It will happen.

 

[gpat]

If there's not even enough volume for two sizes of iPhone Pro, then only the 24-inch iMac will go on M3.

Accept it, my friend. It will happen.

Oh, I see.
All of this was to disguise your frustration about owning the most neglected product out of Apple's whole lineup.
You have my sympathy.

 

[Gudi]

Oh, I see.
All of this was to disguise your frustration about owning the most neglected product out of Apple's whole lineup.
You have my sympathy.

It's not neglected at all. The 2021 iMac is still a technological marvel and design masterpiece, no competitor came even close to and even other Macs can't match. Mac mini and Mac Studio are just overpriced alumium boxes without display, keyboard and mouse. The MacBooks with their boring colors and obnoxious notches are an insult to Apple design. Who will still celebrate the return of inverted T arrow keys, HDMI and MagSafe in 20 years time? There's nothing to love about these uninspiring retro designs. People get carried away by their admiration for M-series chips and can't admit that the MacBooks are truly neglected.

M2 didn't even give the MacBooks more battery life and would've done nothing to improve the iMac, only M3 on 3nm will bring more CPU cores and hardware acceleration for AV1 and ray tracing. You will see, the just released 15" MacBook Air will be the last to receive an M3 upgrade. The so-called "neglected" iMac is ahead of all of them on the upgrade curve.