Torn between Air M2 and Pro 14 - Any news on the horizon?

[MICHAELSD]

Maybe if you turn the brightness up it would reduce the flickering on the MBP?

What were you doing that the performance felt constrained on the M2 MBA? I am curious because beyond workloads the device was not designed for my experience was the opposite?

I am sorry about your eye strain. I had a similar experience with the 16" M1 Max MBP.

Thanks for understanding. It surprises me sometimes how many people experience similar headaches from these products.

I recently tried installing QuikShade, which acts as a sort of color filter to dim the display. I'll keep the brightness level at 50% and see if that helps. The only issue is that the undimmed brightness can still be seen when switching desktops, and the cursor isn't dimmed which at least looks cool. I would happily use this workaround if there was no PWM above 50% like some of Apple's recent MacBook Air/MacBook Pro models which do use a high-frequency PWM at lower brightnesses. I'm nonetheless optimistic that Apple will offer a better alternative next time there is a major design change to the MacBook Pro.

To be honest even the interface seemed to drop frames with multiple apps open, which leads me to believe that these devices really necessitate 16GB of RAM for all but the lightest workloads.

Edit: The brightness workaround didn't seem to help as I still notice nearly instant headaches, but keeping the brightness higher does nonetheless seem to be more comfortable in terms of flickering.

 

[Technerd108]

Thanks for understanding. It surprises me sometimes how many people experience similar headaches from these products.

I recently tried installing QuikShade, which acts as a sort of color filter to dim the display. I'll keep the brightness level at 50% and see if that helps. The only issue is that the undimmed brightness can still be seen when switching desktops, and the cursor isn't dimmed which at least looks cool. I would happily use this workaround if there was no PWM above 50% like some of Apple's recent MacBook Air/MacBook Pro models which do use a high-frequency PWM at lower brightnesses. I'm nonetheless optimistic that Apple will offer a better alternative next time there is a major design change to the MacBook Pro.

To be honest even the interface seemed to drop frames with multiple apps open, which leads me to believe that these devices really necessitate 16GB of RAM for all but the lightest workloads.

Edit: The brightness workaround didn't seem to help as I still notice nearly instant headaches, but keeping the brightness higher does nonetheless seem to be more comfortable in terms of flickering.

I am really sorry to hear that. I agree that future iterations of the Mini Led display will have improvements.

I had issues with the screen myself causing eye strain and other issues but I never got headaches from the screen.

This may seem a bit odd a question to ask but there are a few things that might help your eyes or help with headaches that might mitigate some of the effects of the screen. Do you take magnesium? Taking 400mg of Magnesium citrate along with some calcium might help relax the nerves and muscles around the eyes and help prevent headaches.

Blueberry and beta carotene specially carrot juice may also help. Just thinking a bit outside the box of something that might help eye strain and headaches due to the screen.

Good luck and I hope things improve. Headaches can be brutal.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I am really sorry to hear that. I agree that future iterations of the Mini Led display will have improvements.

I had issues with the screen myself causing eye strain and other issues but I never got headaches from the screen.

This may seem a bit odd a question to ask but there are a few things that might help your eyes or help with headaches that might mitigate some of the effects of the screen. Do you take magnesium? Taking 400mg of Magnesium citrate along with some calcium might help relax the nerves and muscles around the eyes and help prevent headaches.

Blueberry and beta carotene specially carrot juice may also help. Just thinking a bit outside the box of something that might help eye strain and headaches due to the screen.

Good luck and I hope things improve. Headaches can be brutal.

Magnesium could help in theory, and I appreciate your suggestions. I guess I'm at the point where I shouldn't have to adjust myself to be able to use the display, as it's a proven issue of PWM sensitivity that's technically resolvable at a hardware level.

 

[Technerd108]

Magnesium could help in theory, and I appreciate your suggestions. I guess I'm at the point where I shouldn't have to adjust myself to be able to use the display, as it's a proven issue of PWM sensitivity that's technically resolvable at a hardware level.

I agree, just throwing a few ideas. Have a good night

 

[MICHAELSD]

This is beyond frustrating since this laptop and its display are so amazing besides the constant feeling of getting punched in the back of my eye, even at max brightness or with auto-brightness turned on.

If I sell it, my best next step forward may be to wait to see what happens. I would of course upgrade to the M2 Pro if the display flickering is adjusted.

 

[MICHAELSD]

To elaborate, I guess that the Air didn't feel like the massive upgrade I expected coming from a 2012 15" rMBP. I'm honestly shocked at how well it still performs at everyday tasks like web browsing. The Pro also feels more premium, like it's produced on a different production line with even higher tolerances. The solidness of this machine is what impresses me most.

My options are limited, and I'll likely end up back at waiting to see what Apple does next with the M2 and M3 Pro.

 

[Technerd108]

This is beyond frustrating since this laptop and its display are so amazing besides the constant feeling of getting punched in the back of my eye, even at max brightness or with auto-brightness turned on.

If I sell it, my best next step forward may be to wait to see what happens. I would of course upgrade to the M2 Pro if the display flickering is adjusted.

Would a blue light pair of glasses that are clear but with a slight yellow tint help in any way? Those computer glasses they sell. Could they help filter the flickering?? I doubt it but you seem to have tried everything else. I sincerely hope the next 14/16" MBP or M3 MBA will have a better display in terms of flickering or triggering your headaches but there is no guarantee that it will change and there is a possibility that it stays the same or is worse. Does this happen on other laptop displays? Have you tried maybe even a windows laptop? Could it even be a software issue like how MacOS renders the screen?? Do you wear corrective glasses?

 

[MICHAELSD]

Would a blue light pair of glasses that are clear but with a slight yellow tint help in any way? Those computer glasses they sell. Could they help filter the flickering?? I doubt it but you seem to have tried everything else. I sincerely hope the next 14/16" MBP or M3 MBA will have a better display in terms of flickering or triggering your headaches but there is no guarantee that it will change and there is a possibility that it stays the same or is worse. Does this happen on other laptop displays? Have you tried maybe even a windows laptop? Could it even be a software issue like how MacOS renders the screen?? Do you wear corrective glasses?

My optometrist recommended blue light-filtering glasses for migraines, which wouldn't have been the worst idea and perhaps I should have added a blue light filter to my new pair of glasses. It may slightly mitigate the effect. I have no particular issues with my vision, or any conditions that would be exacerbated by flickering. Apparently only PWM sensitivity, although not to all displays as my plasma remains perfectly fine and comfortable to stare at.

I've only ever had PWM flickering issues with Apple displays, although many Windows laptops also use PWM. At this point I've found that I need to specifically search for laptops and displays that don't use PWM using a source like Notebookcheck. I'm so engrained in the Apple ecosystem that I don't really want to purchase a Windows laptop, although there are a lot of solid options by newcomers like Razer and even a few OLED displays.

It's definitely caused by the PWM flickering of the 14" Mini-LED, which frankly seems more apparent than the latest iPhone 14 Pro Max despite having a relatively high 14,880Hz rate. I have no issues with my 15" rMBP, or with the M2 Air that I tested. I suppose I was a little disappointed in the Air not having a significantly improved display over my rMBP, and the performance jump admittedly wasn't as large in everyday tasks as expected. I couldn't bring myself to box up the Pro, even when I know I should probably sell it soon.

 

[Technerd108]

To elaborate, I guess that the Air didn't feel like the massive upgrade I expected coming from a 2012 15" rMBP. I'm honestly shocked at how well it still performs at everyday tasks like web browsing. The Pro also feels more premium, like it's produced on a different production line with even higher tolerances. The solidness of this machine is what impresses me most.

My options are limited, and I'll likely end up back at waiting to see what Apple does next with the M2 and M3 Pro.

The M1 14/16" MBP are awesome machines and I love the etching on the back of the device. I love the re-design of the Pro's. They are certainly premium devices.

However, IMHO I feel the air feels pretty premium too and this is coming from the 16" M1 Max MBP. I like the smaller footprint and weight. But I can see why some would prefer the beefier Pro build.

You have to get what you prefer and makes you happy in the end. Obviously the screen on the current M series MBP is causing problems for you and that is the type of laptop you prefer. I think the only thing you can do now is stick with what you have and try to mitigate the problem as best you can while you wait for the next iteration of MBP and hope they have aa screen you can tolerate. Only time will tell and I wish you the best of luck!!

 

[Technerd108]

My optometrist recommended blue light-filtering glasses for migraines, which not have been the worst idea and perhaps I should have added a blue light filter to my new pair of glasses. It may slightly mitigate the effect. I have no particular issues with my vision, or any conditions that would be exacerbated by flickering. Apparently only PWM sensitivity, although not to all displays as my plasma remains perfectly fine and comfortable to stare at.

I've only ever had PWM flickering issues with Apple displays, although many Windows laptops also use PWM. At this point I've found that I need to specifically search for laptops and displays that don't use PWM using a source like Notebookcheck. I'm so engrained in the Apple ecosystem that I don't really want to purchase a Windows laptop, although there are a lot of solid options by newcomers like Razer and even a few OLED displays.

It's definitely caused by the PWM flickering of the 14" Mini-LED, which frankly seems more apparent than the latest iPhone 14 Pro Max despite having a relatively high 14,880Hz rate. I have no issues with my 15" rMBP, or with the M2 Air that I tested. I suppose I was a little disappointed in the Air not having a significantly improved display over my rMBP, and the performance jump admittedly wasn't as large in everyday tasks as expected. I couldn't bring myself to box up the Pro, even when I know I should probably sell it soon.

I had a Samsung GalaxyBook2 Pro 360 for a short while and that Oled display even at 1080 resolution was really nice. I got a cheaper Windows laptop ultimately instead but I miss the OLED display. I just worry about burn in with Oled on a laptop with a lot of static elements.

You might try the glasses for with the yellow tint for now.

If you are seriously considering selling your Pro then I would do it before the new ones are announced as it will negatively affect value. Resale prices are still pretty high even on sites like Swappa.

The problem is you don't know if the new model will be an improvement and you pretty much like everything about the M1 MBP you have now. The new model is supposedly getting a pretty modest upgrade and it might only have a spec bump on the processor. You might have to wait for the M3 or later version since the Mini led is pretty new Apple might just continue to use the same display for a while. I tend to think this might be the case.

So I think trying to figure out a way to mitigate the screen issue is the best you can do for now. I think you are stuck until their is a more major re-design and I don't think that will happen if they release on this year. Next year they might have the M3 version and that would probably be the earliest they would change the display.

The only other option is the M2 MBA but you don't really like it and it feels like a downgrade and you probably like the screen on the MBP better it is just that it is causing you headaches. I wouldn't buy the M2 MBA if I thought it was a downgrade and liked the beefier build of the MBP. You would not be happy just to get a screen you can tolerate.

I wish I could help more...

 

[MICHAELSD]

I had a Samsung GalaxyBook2 Pro 360 for a short while and that Oled display even at 1080 resolution was really nice. I got a cheaper Windows laptop ultimately instead but I miss the OLED display. I just worry about burn in with Oled on a laptop with a lot of static elements.

You might try the glasses for with the yellow tint for now.

If you are seriously considering selling your Pro then I would do it before the new ones are announced as it will negatively affect value. Resale prices are still pretty high even on sites like Swappa.

The problem is you don't know if the new model will be an improvement and you pretty much like everything about the M1 MBP you have now. The new model is supposedly getting a pretty modest upgrade and it might only have a spec bump on the processor. You might have to wait for the M3 or later version since the Mini led is pretty new Apple might just continue to use the same display for a while. I tend to think this might be the case.

So I think trying to figure out a way to mitigate the screen issue is the best you can do for now. I think you are stuck until their is a more major re-design and I don't think that will happen if they release on this year. Next year they might have the M3 version and that would probably be the earliest they would change the display.

The only other option is the M2 MBA but you don't really like it and it feels like a downgrade and you probably like the screen on the MBP better it is just that it is causing you headaches. I wouldn't buy the M2 MBA if I thought it was a downgrade and liked the beefier build of the MBP. You would not be happy just to get a screen you can tolerate.

I wish I could help more...

You have been very helpful and I too wish that there was more of a solution; unfortunately, the longer I keep this Pro the more likely I am to deal with using it despite the concerning degree of headaches. I should maybe at least make an attempt at selling it to see if I can obtain a fair value for what's still a like-new machine that hasn't left my desk.

I at least know now that I should avoid all forms of PWM display flickering, but if the iPhone is any indication there may not be a suitable Mac for another 5-10 years. Perhaps an iMac Pro may suit me well, if not an Air or Mac mini paired to an OLED monitor. I wouldn't mind a Mac Studio either, which would offer ridiculous performance. I usually prefer a more integrated Apple solution, as the Studio Display seems admittedly underwhelming. The Pro is the best combination of all of Apple's best technology.

I would immediately upgrade and deal with the cost and hassle if Apple removes PWM flickering at least above 50% brightness as they do on all other Mac models that utilize PWM. It's certainly a possibility as Apple seems to re-engineer the display with each generation, although I'm not super optimistic.

I'll have to figure out the best modern desk setup, and go from there. I don't really need the portability at this time, and an external display/keyboard/mouse may make it more comfortable to use for longer periods.

 

[Muyfa666]

Ok, so I made my choice and ordered a Air M2 with 8-core GPU, 8gb ram and 512gb ssd.

The 8-core gpu since I read slightly better battery time and less throttling than 10-core.

512gb ssd since it’s much faster than 256gb.

And 8gb of ram. I’m not a power user so this will work fine for web surfing and streaming music and movies.

Got a student discount of 135$ and will also get a coupon of 125$ that I will put towards a Apple TV.

Space Grey. Not the fingerprint magnet… ;-)

 

[1BadManVan]

Ok, so I made my choice and ordered a Air M2 with 8-core GPU, 8gb ram and 512gb ssd.

The 8-core gpu since I read slightly better battery time and less throttling than 10-core.

512gb ssd since it’s much faster than 256gb.

And 8gb of ram. I’m not a power user so this will work fine for web surfing and streaming music and movies.

Got a student discount of 135$ and will also get a coupon of 125$ that I will put towards a Apple TV.

Space Grey. Not the fingerprint magnet… ;-)

Congrats! you'll love it, use mine more then any other laptop ive ever owned. Just so light and fast, hard not to wanna pick it up lol. Im coming from the world of windows laptops though.

 

[Muyfa666]

I actually changed my order to 16gb, because why not… ;-)

 

[1BadManVan]

I actually changed my order to 16gb, because why not… ;-)

My exact thinking when I went for the 16gb/1tb model

 

[DSTOFEL]

I’m not gonna fault anyone for wanting thin and light but paying more for worse specs is objectively kinda dumb.

It’s not “objectively“ kind of dumb (ie Objectively meaning - in a way that is not influenced by personal feelings or opinions). Subjectively? Yeah, I can see that (ie in your opinion).

I can see that some might just value design over function and aren’t going to go for the M1 pro 14 inch at any price…because they don’t like the more utilitarian design (subjectively speaking of course) and bulkiness of the 14. So, if someone has the cash and wants a spec’d out M2 Air at $1,699…even if the 14 Pro was on sale at $1,599 (lets say), you can’t say that’s objectively dumb. Perhaps for you it is….and i’d probably fall in to the same camp….but that would be our opinion…not fact.

 

[magbarn]

I actually changed my order to 16gb, because why not… ;-)

Smart move, this machine will last you a decade.