Toshiba To Stop HD DVD Player Production

Well, PS3 was one of the first BD-players available. There was some other player available few months earlier, but it had a price-tag of over 1000 bucks. When PS3 was released it was the cheapest BD-player out there (and I think it still is), but IIRC HD-DVD was a bit cheaper still.

Of course HD-DVD was winning at first, for the sole reason that it was released earlier. They had players and (some) content out there, whereas BD was not yet available. So of course it was outselling BD.
BD players were on sale 6 months before the PS3 showed up. And for 8 months (cause HD DVD came out a couple months earlier) HD DVD was leading.
So, do you think that they should release 1.1 spec discs now, and 6 months later release 2.0-spec discs? Um, why? What benefit would that give?

What benefit would releasing 2.0-spec disc now give? Simple: when 2.0-players become available, those discs are ready to take advantage of the additional features. Maybe they want to design the disc and it's contents once, as opposed to first designing 1.1-compliant disc, and then designing 2.0-compliant disc?

As to what discs are 2.0-compliant at this moment.... Wikipedia sez: "War" and "Saw IV".
Doubledipping for the win!!! I am suprised they aren't taking advantage of all the normal folks. You know extended version, directors cut, super extended unrated directors cut, etc. Interesting on what movies are 2.0 discs.
 
I will abandon Apple

I'm a video producer and i have always worked on Mac and Final Cut Pro, but if Apple does not announce support for creating Blu-Ray discs now, I will abandon Apple and do my production on PC with Canopus. They have had Blu-Ray production for a year now and I've stayed loyal while Apple drage it's feet, but I've had it. It's absolutely ridiculous that Apple has such market share in video production and gives us no way to deliver HD content. Forget it, make an announcement in the next week and give me a DVD Studio Pro update in the next month or I give up. And I'll sell the rest of my AAPL stock.

Apple is dead in the water very soon if they don't move on this news.
 
I'm a video producer and i have always worked on Mac and Final Cut Pro, but if Apple does not announce support for creating Blu-Ray discs now, I will abandon Apple and do my production on PC with Canopus. They have had Blu-Ray production for a year now and I've stayed loyal while Apple drage it's feet, but I've had it. It's absolutely ridiculous that Apple has such market share in video production and gives us no way to deliver HD content. Forget it, make an announcement in the next week and give me a DVD Studio Pro update in the next month or I give up. And I'll sell the rest of my AAPL stock.

Apple is dead in the water very soon if they don't move on this news.

You can't have been producing video for very long then if you've only ever used FCP.

Apple is far from dead in the water, pro apps are making a less and less important contribution to Apples revenues and as such they are focusing efforts elsewhere *at the moment* - as soon as there is an update to be made, I'm sure they will make one. But without the team of people working on it full time, an update to DVDSP is not going to come around every few months.

BluRay will come to the mac one day, i'll admit, i'd expected to have seen something by now, but there is NAB coming up (which Apple staff have been reportedly saying that they'll be there for the 10 days in some capacity ;)) and the FCP supermeet where again apple will be in attendance in some form.

I suggest you calm down, the problem is being worked!

If you really want to go to a PC based system (Avid?) and reinvest in hardware and software all over again, be my guest.

By the way, why are you so anxious to produce BD content? Can you guarantee everyone you hand a BD disc has some way of playing it at the moment? I've got no way of playing BD and i know many others haven't either
 
You can't have been producing video for very long then if you've only ever used FCP.

Apple is far from dead in the water, pro apps are making a less and less important contribution to Apples revenues and as such they are focusing efforts elsewhere *at the moment* - as soon as there is an update to be made, I'm sure they will make one. But without the team of people working on it full time, an update to DVDSP is not going to come around every few months.

That seems like the perfect reason to move on to another platform as quickly as possible, frankly.

I suggest you calm down, the problem is being worked!

You just argued the opposite.


If you really want to go to a PC based system (Avid?) and reinvest in hardware and software all over again, be my guest.

There are other "systems" than avid, you know.


By the way, why are you so anxious to produce BD content? Can you guarantee everyone you hand a BD disc has some way of playing it at the moment? I've got no way of playing BD and i know many others haven't either

No, he propably can't. But then again, I can't promise that each and everyone can play a wav file on their portable players – especially one that is, say, 24bit/48kHz. Does that mean I should only be able to edit and save in MP3s? :rolleyes:
 
Err.. Have I missed something?

You'd think these "Video producers" use Mac Pro's? If so then why don't you just sling in a BD-Writer in one of the spare 5.25 slots and produce your content?

:confused:
 
As others have already said, I'm hoping this eventual decision by Toshiba to pull the plug will have Apple adding Blu-Ray drives to at least the Mac Pro line.
 
Err.. Have I missed something?

You'd think these "Video producers" use Mac Pro's? If so then why don't you just sling in a BD-Writer in one of the spare 5.25 slots and produce your content?

:confused:

Apparently it's the software that doesn't support it. It's not just a matter of plugging in a BR-burner. And from what I can gather, Roxio supports Bluray – unfortunately only the data-format. So, even if you did throw in a BR-burner, you couldn't use it with FCP.
 
That seems like the perfect reason to move on to another platform as quickly as possible, frankly.

You just argued the opposite.

There are other "systems" than avid, you know.

No, he propably can't. But then again, I can't promise that each and everyone can play a wav file on their portable players – especially one that is, say, 24bit/48kHz. Does that mean I should only be able to edit and save in MP3s? :rolleyes:

If you've got the time and money to move to another system, learn another system more importantly - then go for it!

of course i "know" there are other platforms - i was asking if this is perhaps the the choice after moving platform. It is about the most popular for serious Vid editors. You could always go with Vegas instead! :eek:

WAV is a digital file format, if you can't play it on your music player, you can be damn sure that in 5 minutes of being on any computer you'll be able to download something that will let you play it. Solid media like BD on the other hand needs special hardware to play that at the moment is expensive (as is the actual BD-R disc)

PS - you need to read up on your steve jobs quotes
 
Apparently it's the software that doesn't support it. It's not just a matter of plugging in a BR-burner. And from what I can gather, Roxio supports Bluray – unfortunately only the data-format. So, even if you did throw in a BR-burner, you couldn't use it with FCP.

This is correct. Over on the DVInfo forums, this is an issue with people doing HD production. They have to do all of the pre-production in FCP, then move it all over to Vegas (a Sony app) on the PC to make a Blu-Ray disc.

Hoping to see a DVDS4 update that will support mastering the Blu-Ray on the Mac someday.
 
Apparently it's the software that doesn't support it. It's not just a matter of plugging in a BR-burner. And from what I can gather, Roxio supports Bluray – unfortunately only the data-format. So, even if you did throw in a BR-burner, you couldn't use it with FCP.

You can work around it - someone managed to burn media with Adobe Premiere, though it was a royal pain in the ass - if you *really* need to be producing BD content, you'll have found a way of doing by now rather than moaning about apple not providing you with the tools
 
You can't have been producing video for very long then if you've only ever used FCP.

By the way, why are you so anxious to produce BD content? Can you guarantee everyone you hand a BD disc has some way of playing it at the moment? I've got no way of playing BD and i know many others haven't either

I make wedding videos and the majority of my clients are concerned with HD. Usually it's the groom that is most interested and this is great, I can use the technology hook on the groom now like never before, and if he's into it too, I make the sale, and for more money. Everyone wants their wedding captured in the highest quality and in the past several months I'm getting more couples with either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. If they don't have it now, many plan on getting something soon. Many have it on their gift registry. I'm getting so discouraged having to say no I can't give it to you in HD but I can shoot it in HD. I lose business to the PC-based producers who can deliver in Blu-Ray. I've seen huge movement in my customers in the past year. Almost everyone is aware of HD disc players and it's a factor whether they currently have one or not.

Maybe Pro Apps are not a big revenue source, but the Mac-only FCP drives huge hardware sales. Unless they drop the ball on HD delivery. Then I'll be dropping huge money on a whole new system.

Actually, I'm dead in the water without HD delivery, not Apple (let me rephrase that :)
 
I hate it when people lie to me. Some guy a few weeks ago was adamant that the war was still going strong, and that he read a bunch of articles about it.

I hope he enjoys lying when he's burning in hell.
 
If you've got the time and money to move to another system, learn another system more importantly - then go for it!

Hmm, so you're suggesting, that one should wait around for a year, still without support, use a product that aren't really fully featured, all because it's a bitch to switch platforms?

The thing is, a pro – any pro – care more about the end result (and in this case, there can be no BR end result), than they care about platforms. Of course it will cost money to switch platforms, but it's about timing. If you time it, the hardware wont cost more (as you will need to buy new hardware once in a while), and the "learn another system" is really a non-argument. I don't know any audio guy or video ditto who doesn't keep track of what's out there, and is pretty fluent on windows as wells as macs (when they use a mac, that is).

Further, it's not that difficult to learn a new video or audio app, when you know what you're doing, and have done it for a while.

Then you go on, and ask to me read a bit more, when I told you you argued the opposite. But you did, even if you aren't aware of it.
You argued that Apple has shifted focus, and that that shift of focus meant that the pro-support were toned down. And you argued that because of Apple moving people from the pro support to other places, that people should just wait. That is an argument for moving along: No pro-support, unless the people have the time for it, between working on iPhone and the Touch.



of course i "know" there are other platforms - i was asking if this is perhaps the the choice after moving platform. It is about the most popular for serious Vid editors. You could always go with Vegas instead! :eek:

No, you inferred, that the "othe choice" out there was going with Avid and buying hardware for it.


WAV is a digital file format, if you can't play it on your music player, you can be damn sure that in 5 minutes of being on any computer you'll be able to download something that will let you play it. Solid media like BD on the other hand needs special hardware to play that at the moment is expensive (as is the actual BD-R disc)

Haha, what a joke. You do realise the difference between wav and aif, right? Let me give you a clue: Little endian/big endian. And on a CD, funnily enough, the tracks are aif-files. Now, anyone can author a CD on basically any computer, and they sure can download something for it immediately (to play on the comp), but what you don't seem to get, is that it's FCP that doesn't allow authoring of a BR-disc. Hence the analogy and the reason why your argument that because not everyone can play, it perfectly fine for a pro app not to support certain features. Video and audio pros use non-consumer bit rates and sample rates all the times, not to mention non-consumer formats. Do you get it now?


PS - you need to read up on your steve jobs quotes

Why? Where did I quote Steve Jobs?
 
You can work around it - someone managed to burn media with Adobe Premiere, though it was a royal pain in the ass - if you *really* need to be producing BD content, you'll have found a way of doing by now rather than moaning about apple not providing you with the tools

Oh, haha, it gets better and better. Now you're suggesting, that because there is a workaround, that by your own admission is a "royal pain in the ass", people should just use that, instead of having the feature built into a pro app :rolleyes:
 
I don't know how this turned into from Toshiba stopping HD DVD production to abandoning Apple because it doesn't have Blu-ray production in its Macs.

I think after the Toshiba announcment, Apple should have Blu-ray production in its Mac Pros by the end of this month...
 
I think after the Toshiba announcment, Apple should have Blu-ray production in its Mac Pros by the end of this month...
I don't get this comment. Apple has supported making HD DVD's since FCS 2 was released. How could they not make a Blu-ray version by now?
 
I don't get this comment. Apple has supported making HD DVD's since FCS 2 was released. How could they not make a Blu-ray version by now?

They have to wait until the Blu-ray group has settled all the profile specs... obviously.. (HD DVD profile specs were settled a long time ago).
 
I hate it when people lie to me. Some guy a few weeks ago was adamant that the war was still going strong, and that he read a bunch of articles about it.

I hope he enjoys lying when he's burning in hell.

:confused::confused::confused:

you know what i'd hate? to get on the wrong side of you!
 
I don't know how this turned into from Toshiba stopping HD DVD production to abandoning Apple because it doesn't have Blu-ray production in its Macs.

I think after the Toshiba announcment, Apple should have Blu-ray production in its Mac Pros by the end of this month...

I agree this SHOULD happen. I have a bad feeling however that it won't be happening.
 
I hate it when people lie to me. Some guy a few weeks ago was adamant that the war was still going strong, and that he read a bunch of articles about it.

I hope he enjoys lying when he's burning in hell.

someone's just bought a HD-DVD player...
 
I don't get this comment. Apple has supported making HD DVD's since FCS 2 was released. How could they not make a Blu-ray version by now?

Pretty sure that the problem is that Blu-Ray Authoring requires BD-Java. It came out later than HD-DVD's HDi and, at least from reading, is more difficult to master. I don't doubt that Apple is working on it for both iDVD and DVD Studio, but I also haven't a clue on its release.

Based on Apple's track record for Pro Applications, it will be late, and probably very robust. Biggest problem for Apple is that there is so much product synergy, that Blu-Ray drives, HDCP compliant Cinema Displays, Pro Applications and Pro Application support in Leopard really need to arrive simultaneously.

Aperture 2.0 is a striking example of this.
 
Now that we don't have to worry about current Blu-ray specifications and no more competition from HD-DVD, I expect Apple to have ready some time later this year new versions of iMovie and Final Cut Pro that can master Blu-ray discs, along with offering Blu-ray burners on their Mac Pro tower computer line. It would certainly go a long way in making more Blu-ray discs available, since now you can create a "master" on a Mac Pro instead of a high five-figure UNIX workstation. :)
 
IMHO, Bluray will not replace DVDs. There is a very small difference in watching a film on dvd upscaled vs. HD DVD formats for the average consumer on their average size monitors.
One poster mentioned Bluray blows away Apple HD downloads. On paper I agree, but in reality on my 9 foot wide screen I have ABed HD DVD, Bluray and several Apple HD downloads and the differences are barley visable to the trained eye. And in the case of filmed content, even less visable.
DVD, Bluray and CDs all are going the same direction. They will become a niche market, while downloads (led by lo res) will become the majority player.
Brick and mortar stores are vanishing left and right, and even though downloads are limited at this time, just give it two years and revisit this debate.
 
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