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I'm glad that the format wars are pretty much over. :) Now we can concentrate on drastically cutting the price of players so people who've bought widescreen TV's with HDMI inputs in the last three years will have the incentive to buy Blu-ray players.

(A little off-topic, but I think DVD Audio could make a comeback. There's good reason for this: it's far easier to build a DVD-A player, mostly because it's a close derivative of the DVD video format. In fact, if you have a DVD player or recorder drive in your computer all you need is the appropriate software and sound card and you can play back DVD-A discs, complete with full surround sound decoding!)
 
Don't get me started :mad:
After moving from one region code to another, I can only say one thing: This must be one of the most consumer unfriendly technology ever. I've started to rip all my region 2 DVD to H.264, because it's the only way to ensure I can watch all the content I bought after my region encoded computer dies (I don't want to risk a DVD firmware upgrade). There's a good chance I will never buy a region 4 coded DVD.

Now, it appears that HD DVD "lost the war", but that doesn't necessarily mean that Blue Ray is winning the war. Look at the CD sales and music downloads... with increased network bandwidth HD movie content is going the same way.

I would think that Blue Ray or other disc formats are becoming redundant in the near/medium future.

Please read the link in my previous post. The DVD Forum would approved the addition of region coding, but as I say, the HD-DVD format didn't live long enough to see it.

Either way, you are stuck with region coding. My sympathies.
 
I would hopefully that Apple make external BD drive for iMac and MacBook Pro with Firewire.

Also add BD component support on Apple DVD or maybe rename into Apple HD Movie.
 
I like Blu-Ray's capacity, but like HD-DVD's consumer-friendliness (no drm, lower prices, no region codes, etc.).

The thing I'm waiting for is for Apple to ship Blu-Ray drives in its computers w/ the HDCP stuff integrated, too. Makes little point to have a HD movie if you can't watch it in all its HD glory. Maybe start using HDMI for its displays. Personally, I'd also like iSights to be built in to the cinema displays.

Apple also needs to start making movies on iTunes full HD 1080P as well as upgrade Apple TVs to be able to support 1080p. Not just 720p and up mixing to 1080p.
 
I knew this day would come...

Well, here it is.

This is not good though, this is what we get in return:

1. Higher disc prices - no other 1080 HD format to compete against.
2. The Constraint Token will be turned "ON". HD DVD committed to leaving it off. No without the competition, Blu-ray can turn it on, no HDMI? DVD quality for you... (and that's my case).
3. Content Exclusion. Disney made Blu-ray factories it is using sign an agreement that they will never produce adult content. (I don't like that, that could lead to more censorship - for me it could lead to censoring Christian content). I guess not a big deal, that content could still be on DVD or Digital Download.
4. Region Encoding. HD DVD is regionless. Now, Blu-ray discs can turn theirs on. Digital Downloads have DRM.
5. Crap MPEG-2 masters. HD DVD used the more advanced MPEG-4 or VC-1. Blu-ray has nothing to compete against...

Well, I do plan on going out and getting a Toshiba standalone closeout - I'll put it on top of my CED player... :D
 
ha ha sucks tobe microsoft

another blow to microsoft...now just bring on a blu-ray drive from apple for the mac pro

rockos
 
I like Blu-Ray's capacity, but like HD-DVD's consumer-friendliness (no drm, lower prices, no region codes, etc.).

The thing I'm waiting for is for Apple to ship Blu-Ray drives in its computers w/ the HDCP stuff integrated, too. Makes little point to have a HD movie if you can't watch it in all its HD glory. Maybe start using HDMI for its displays. Personally, I'd also like iSights to be built in to the cinema displays.

HD-DVD does support DRM too, known as ICT.

DVD don't have region code at earlier time, when came out in 1997 until they added region code in later after came out, it would happen to HD-DVD.

BD region code seems more lighter than DVD because we can watch Japanese movies on US based BD player due support A region.
 
Isn't funny how all the retailers and Studios finally united behind an "HD" format(Blu ray) since the introductions of HD quality movie rentals from Itunes? Apple really is shaking things up.
 
But hooking up the mbp to a 42" 1080p tv screen will look amazing, and give me an excuse to save some money and not buy the blu-ray dvd player.:D

Considering the fact that the maximum visual acuity of a person with "perfect" 20/20 vision is one arc minute, and the angle subtended by a pixel on a 42" 1080p is significantly less than one arc minute (assuming you sit more than 3-4 feet away from the TV), I would say you got taken. Should have saved some $$$ and gone with 720p.
 
I don't like that, that could lead to more censorship - for me it could lead to censoring Christian content

oppressedcc2.gif
 
5 1/2 floppy??? What ever happened to my wonderful 8" floppies?

Progress..... how wonderful....




No game yet... I remember a day when a game could fit on a 5 1/2 inch floppy disc, what was that capacity? No more than 512 K? Am I showing my age by bringing this up? As games get more and more advanced they will require more and more space... years ago I got Wing Commander 3, that was on 6 different CD's... now that there is DVD's, it could be put to one disc, and as blu-ray becomes more accepted, people will adopt it and utilize the space to create bigger games... why would you ever doubt this fact? If you haven't noticed, everything costs more space than it did in previous years, for example M$ word on a mac 15 years ago may have been about 1.5 mb, now it is a little more than 60 mb (Word 2008)...

And as for the cost you mention, i remember when CD-R first came out, individual blank discs cost $10 or more, now we can buy a spindel of DVD's at a CVS or Walgreens for about $0.10 a disc (give or take)... the cost will drop rather quickly, and as people buy more and more into bluray, companies are going to be more willing to push their technology to utilize this hugh external capacity...
 
You mean like they "colluded" to push DVD down our throats?



There were numerous studios backing HD-DVD.



Why is it then that there are STILL studios backing HD-DVD?



And that's different from regular DVD's how?



So companies do what they do for money? Well thank you Captain Obvious! And yes, Blu-Ray is expensive at the moment. So would HD-DVD if you disregard the price-dumbing. And guess what? DVD's were expensive as well in the beginning!



IIRC, there hasn't been that much glitches anymore. n the beginning, yes, but not anymore. DRM... Blu-Ray has a bit more DRM than HD-DVD does, and they BOTH are a lot worse in this area than regular DVD's are! So I fail to see how you can call HD-DVD somekind of "champion of the consumer" or something!



This format-war hurt both parties AND the consumers. Elimination of that market-confusion HELPS the consumers! And we still have competition: we have several companies making players, several studios releasing content and several retailers selling both. Having the market split in to two incompatible halves is NOT a good thing! It forces the consumer to buy both technologies and it reduces the economies of scale.



Yes you will. We have those with DVD's, and DVD has had no competition.



PS3 is a fine system, there's nothing wrong with it.



Your "never" will last two years, tops.



There has been widespread rumours that backers of HD-DVD paid hundreds of millions to studios for their support for HD-DVD. What do you think of that? And what companies have been forced to "shut down" due to them not backing Blu-Ray?



But studios NEED to be in some camp. They need to release their content on some format.



But selling out to HD-DVD would be A-OK, right?



You really dont understand the 1948 Paramount Decree.
http://www.whitenberg.de/FoxTheatreAtlanta/ParamountDecree.html


This is bad for the consumer. If this was the airline business and they all got together to control the market, there would be congressional hearings.

Wait 6 months after Toshiba calls it quit and you will understand my post.

What Sony did by paying off to win blocked free trade and technology.

Toshiba is not a studio and cannot compete with the studios.

yes some studios were on HDDVD but in the end, they will stick together when they always co finance 30-100 million dollar movies, of course they will stick together.

Surely if all the record labels got together and made 1 CD format or Digital Music Program , they would get the RIAA to distribute it.

There is no reason why 2 formats cant exsist. Currently EA SPORTS per say, releases the SAME GAMES across 3 systems and there is no confusion there on the consumer part. They know what they want, XBOX, PS3 or Wii.

You dont see the market or the makers say, Well there is confusion in the market place, we must make 1 GAME SYSTEM for all.

This is a way to manipulate the home video market with pricing, DRM, technology, licensing fees of the Blu Ray logo and technology to companies (which is a lucrative business), something the studios hated when they lost millions on the SD DVD technology to the Toshiba group.

go ahead and support Blu-Ray.

Im sticking with HD-DVD and HD downloads of whatever is not on HD-DVD.

Sony should not be rewarded for their actions of payola to hinder free trade.

Consumers are sheep if you gloss the marketing enough.

BR is inferior to HD DVD.

i know you have over $500-$100 tied to your Playstation , so I can understand why you defend it so much when deep down inside I know you understand that Sony and the studios are not in it for the consumer.

Regions on $34.99 disc still is the first major sign. More to come as they will cripple the discs with 5-10 layers of DRM and they will keep the technology at 2.0 for as long as they want. There is no competition and you have to live with it because there is no other HD format .

They got you by the blu-balls.
 
Well, here it is.

This is not good though, this is what we get in return:

1. Higher disc prices - no other 1080 HD format to compete against.
2. The Constraint Token will be turned "ON". HD DVD committed to leaving it off. No without the competition, Blu-ray can turn it on, no HDMI? DVD quality for you... (and that's my case).
3. Content Exclusion. Disney made Blu-ray factories it is using sign an agreement that they will never produce adult content. (I don't like that, that could lead to more censorship - for me it could lead to censoring Christian content). I guess not a big deal, that content could still be on DVD or Digital Download.
4. Region Encoding. HD DVD is regionless. Now, Blu-ray discs can turn theirs on. Digital Downloads have DRM.
5. Crap MPEG-2 masters. HD DVD used the more advanced MPEG-4 or VC-1. Blu-ray has nothing to compete against...

Well, I do plan on going out and getting a Toshiba standalone closeout - I'll put it on top of my CED player... :D

Interestingly, I'm not really keen on rat poison being manufactured in the same factory as aspirin. I'll give Disney the benefit of the doubt on this. Seems like the concern is some parent opening up the box to find something quite a bit different than "Cars".
 
You know, I might just skip this whole Blu-ray thing and get an Apple TV. Seems like the future to me.

I have always made fun of the Apple TV, but now I am a believer.

That being said, I wouldn't mind it at all if my next notebook came with a BR player as that would give me the most flexibility. Apple will probably be forced to offer BR players, even though I don't think they really want to.
 
Well, here it is.

This is not good though, this is what we get in return:

1. Higher disc prices - no other 1080 HD format to compete against.
2. The Constraint Token will be turned "ON". HD DVD committed to leaving it off. No without the competition, Blu-ray can turn it on, no HDMI? DVD quality for you... (and that's my case).
3. Content Exclusion. Disney made Blu-ray factories it is using sign an agreement that they will never produce adult content. (I don't like that, that could lead to more censorship - for me it could lead to censoring Christian content). I guess not a big deal, that content could still be on DVD or Digital Download.
4. Region Encoding. HD DVD is regionless. Now, Blu-ray discs can turn theirs on. Digital Downloads have DRM.
5. Crap MPEG-2 masters. HD DVD used the more advanced MPEG-4 or VC-1. Blu-ray has nothing to compete against...

Well, I do plan on going out and getting a Toshiba standalone closeout - I'll put it on top of my CED player... :D

That's incorrect.

Both of BD and HD-DVD are support Image Constraint Token (ICT), it's up to film companies to use it or not, if HD-DVD contain ICT enabled then you would struck with SD when connect in analog cable, it does same applies to BD too but film companies don't add ICT until after 2012 or so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_Constraint_Token

DVD don't have region code when released in 1997, DVD Forum would adopt the region code on HD-DVD in later time.

BD does support MPEG-4 and VC-1, most of BD movies are based on MPEG-4, not -2, according on wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray
 
I dont understand people saying this will make disc prices high because there is no HD format competition.. DVDs had no competition, but have had dropping disc prices for their entire lifespan.

And crap MPEG-2 masters? VC-1 and MPEG4 work on BD.. it's up to the content providers to encode stuff properly - it's not the format's fault. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_high_definition_optical_disc_formats

How come this debate happens every time. HD-DVD would have ended up with region codes too.. This is best for the consumer. A single format is better than two. :D

lol lucky3killer got in there first, good call.
 
Please read the link in my previous post. The DVD Forum would approved the addition of region coding, but as I say, the HD-DVD format didn't live long enough to see it.

Either way, you are stuck with region coding. My sympathies.

They can put all the region codes on the discs that they want so long as I can buy an unlocked player. Until there is a Blu-ray player that can be unlocked I'm not buying.
 
Well, here it is.

This is not good though, this is what we get in return:

1. Higher disc prices - no other 1080 HD format to compete against.

PRices of DVD's went through the floor, even though it had no competition either.

3. Content Exclusion. Disney made Blu-ray factories it is using sign an agreement that they will never produce adult content. (I don't like that, that could lead to more censorship - for me it could lead to censoring Christian content). I guess not a big deal, that content could still be on DVD or Digital Download.

There's already Blu-Ray porn being released. And most of that stuff is online anyway.

5. Crap MPEG-2 masters. HD DVD used the more advanced MPEG-4 or VC-1. Blu-ray has nothing to compete against...

You mean like DVD's were crap quality since DVD had no competition? And Blu-Ray can use the same encodes as HD-DVD did, and many of them do.
 
Steve Ballmer is trying to figure out a way to spin this for MSFT, since they were one of the original backers of HD DVD.

Maybe he is going to launch a bid for Sony, shut down Blu-Ray and restart HD DVD. Yeah, that is what he is planning to do.
 
This is bad for the consumer.

If buying two incompatlble players so you could play back all the content out there is a benefit, then yes, consolidating on one format might be considered a "drawback"....

If this was the airline business and they all got together to control the market, there would be congressional hearings.

Why didn't we have this compaint with VHS or DVD's? Why would it be OK for companies to standardize on HD-DVD but not blu-ray?

Toshiba is not a studio and cannot compete with the studios.

Toshiba is not the only backer of HD-DVD.

yes some studios were on HDDVD but in the end, they will stick together when they always co finance 30-100 million dollar movies, of course they will stick together.

Like they did with VHS and DVD. And what horrible anti-consumer failures both of those were....

There is no reason why 2 formats cant exsist.

Yes they CAN co-exist. But fact is that forcing consumers to buy two different systems so they could play back content is not exactly ideal, now is it?

Currently EA SPORTS per say, releases the SAME GAMES across 3 systems and there is no confusion there on the consumer part.

And quite often the different version and and behave differently. And why should we be forced to buy both HD-DVD and blu-ray-players? Pray tell: what benefit would that give?

This is a way to manipulate the home video market with pricing, DRM, technology, licensing fees of the Blu Ray logo and technology to companies (which is a lucrative business), something the studios hated when they lost millions on the SD DVD technology to the Toshiba group.

Like they did with DVD, right?

go ahead and support Blu-Ray.

I will. And I will do that just to spite you ;).

Sony should not be rewarded for their actions of payola to hinder free trade.

You never commented on the reports that HD-DVD-camp paid hundreds of millions to studios for supporting HD-DVD... I guess there's double-standards afoot here! HD-DVD-payola is OK, blu-ray payola is not. And I haven't heard Blu-ray camp paying anyone to switch to Blu-ray (unlike what HD-DVD-camp did). Have you? Do you have an links?

BR is inferior to HD DVD.

Just because you keep on repeating that, does not make it a fact.

i know you have over $500-$100 tied to your Playstation

I don't own a playstation. I do have a Wii, does that count?

Regions on $34.99 disc still is the first major sign.

Keep dreaming.

There is no competition and you have to live with it because there is no other HD format .

Just like we had with DVD. And why would it be better to have only HD-DVD? I mean, every single complaint you made against blu-ray hegemony could be made against against HD-DVD-hegemony as well.

Seriously: your "arguments" make zero sense. They are filled with paranoia, hypocricy and double-standards.
 
It's all moot now. Seems silly to argue about it.

Shame about SACD... I have a few SACD's on a moderate system... nothing audiophile... not even close... just a decent theater amp (maybe $400?) and some decent Infiniti towers ($1000?)... and some of those discs literally take your breath away. You close you eyes and it's almost spooky... you could swear that you're there... like you gonna get up and walk around and accidently bump into the musicians. Truly amazing. The iTunes store sells crap. I still buy CD's because I can hear the difference on my system. It's pretty noticeable. My iTunes library has about 3000 songs... and maybe 6 are from iTunes... maybe a dozen are legal and /or illegal downloads... the rest are all ripped CD's.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

the writing has been on the wall for HD-DVD for a while. It was clearly a matter of time before BluRay was the "official" format war victor. I'm still not sure apple will jump on board fully - perhaps just a BTO option. They seem to be seriously pushing the idea that optical media is a thing of the past.

Its a very risky strategy though. If AppleTV doesn't explode they way they want it to, the lack of Blu-Ray could unfortunately make Final Cut and the Mac platform a thing of the past for video professionals. I know of quite a few people in the wedding/event business owners who have had to either switch or add a PC to their ranks because of this. As BR-ROMs and Writers get cheaper this could funnel down to the consumer ranks as well. Apple should have been an early adopter here as they were with the DVD.
 
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