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A couple of points:

Of course there is a "halo effect". Most people won't switch, but a significant growth in market share will occur if only 2 or 3% out of millions of windows iPod users take the plunge. Also, the halo effect is something that we're just now starting to see. So far, roughly 9-10 iPods have been sold (if you use Q1 estimates of 4 million). 9 million more are estimated for the rest of fiscal 2005, and then 23 million are predicted for fiscal 2006, and those figures are without the assumption of an iPod flash, which would increase unit sales by a lot. Apple will have a different market share, or at least mind share within the next four years, and for any anecdotal evidence anyone has to the contrary, just remember, it only has to be 2 to 3%.

I'm sick of people saying "they've lost focus on computers". The iPod is certainly growing, but only represents a quarter of total revenue. PowerBooks bring in more money, as well as powerMacs. The iPod is saving the platform, and a big reason why the retail stores are also doing so well. Bottom line: Apple's increased profits are good for existing users in three ways.
(1) The company will be around for the long-term
(2) Revenues are expected to growth more than 50% in the next two years, at this size Apple will be able to spend more on other aspects such as R&D, Marketing, etc
(3) Buy the stock, make some money. Most estimates value it at mid-seventies all the way up to 100. Instead of saying "what does it do for me", go buy some stock, and then realize next year you'll be able to buy a powerbook G5 and an ipod with your gains.
 
what happened to Steve making fun of flash-based players last year when he debuted the mini?

I guess apple has realized that working out with a HD-based player isn't an option, and that they are missing out on a LOT of customers?

or have they figured out that most people aren't interested in a 600 dollar photo book with a 2" screen?

Cause I don't know anyone personally who thinks the photo iPods are worth the extra cash.
 
HALO - a great game, but not an effect

sworthy said:
A couple of points:

Of course there is a "halo effect". Most people won't switch, but a significant growth in market share will occur if only 2 or 3% out of millions of windows iPod users take the plunge.

What do you base this on?

I would think a more accurate statement is 'Of course there is not a 'halo effect'.
 
ftaok said:
And there are people that don't currently own a Mac and love their iPods that WILL buy a Mac. So what's your point?


And there are people who don't currently own a mac and don't own an iPod that WILL ALSO buy a mac.

The point is that people don't make the decision on which computer to buy based on the type of mp3 player they use.
 
powermac666 said:
Well said. If Apple gets 5% of the iPod buying PC users to switch to Mac for their next computer, that still leaves 97% who won't.
QUOTE]

Well said...but

I think it is silly to limit ourselves to 102% of the pc users. I say we go for 109% (minimum)
 
Yvan256 said:
In fact, I know someone who's actually *waiting* for Apple to release a cheaper, flash iPod. And a 1GB flash iPod would be enough for his needs.
I know somebody too - me! 😀 I had thinking thinking about an iPod, but couldn't bring myself to spend that much money on one, because I'd be a light user.
 
ioinc said:
What do you base this on?

I would think a more accurate statement is 'Of course there is not a 'halo effect'.

Actually, I remember reading an article a week or two ago stating that there was indeed a halo effect. I believe it was 6% of iPod users had purchased or would purchase an Apple computer based on their experience with the iPod.

Sorry I can't provide a link, I don't remember where I read it. That finding did cause an upswing in Apple's stock price though, about $3.
 
sworthy said:


Did you read the second article?

Much has been said of the iPod's "halo effect" -- the notion that strong sales of iPods will spill over into sales of Macs. Analysts have routinely cited the factor in bolstering their outlook of Apple, but to date little proof exists that the halo effect is in any sort of effect (most recently, Apple's global market share for sales of new systems fell to a paltry 1.8 percent).

It does not look like every firm.. in fact it looks like only 1 firm. And I am not the only one that doubts it to be valid (per the article you posted).

Don't get me wrong... I want it to be the case as much as the next guy. There is nothing I would like more than apple gaining in market share and all that goes with it.

But wanting it does not make it so.

Apply this logic to other parts of your life..... You have a nice Sony VCR that you really enjoy... does this mean that your next TV will be a Sony? Your next stereo?

or, are you more likely to buy a TV or stereo that meets your needs. The unfortunate truth is that for many people the Mac just does not meet there needs. And, since this has been the case for a long time, it has been blown up into a bigger issue than it really is and there is a perception that a Mac can not meet all your computer needs.

Again... I am a big mac fan. I have owned one since they came out in 1984. My iPod sits on my desk next to me. I just don't want to assume something is true just because I WANT it to be true.
 
Here is a chart I made in excel of ipod sales by quarter (Q1 2005 is the current quarter, and an average estimate for the quarter).

CumulativeiPodSales.jpg


As you can see, there have been exponentially more ipod users recently, give the halo effect a little time to kick in.
 
different priorities?

"Cause I don't know anyone personally who thinks the photo iPods are worth the extra cash."

I bought a 60GB - sold my 40GB 4G to get it. Just talked to a guy I work with, last week he bought a mini and 2 - 60's!

I decided the extra space and a color screen were worth the extra cost, and I'm sure a lot of other folks will too.

Z
 
joemama said:
The only bad thing is they are missing out on holiday sales.

Ain't that the truth! I need that thing to be available now. I went and bought an RCA mp3 for my 6 year old. He's just getting into music and loves using my iPod. But a $400 HD based unit for a 6 year old isn't going to happen! As soon as the flash players come out, he'll get the upgrade for sure. If nothing else, just to keep things easy for me, since I'm the one who loads (and censors) what he gets to hear. He'll be more than happy with the $50 unit he's getting, but the convenience of having an iTunes compatible flash player would be well worth the little extra money without getting into the 'mini' pricerange.
 
There is one important factor related to the halo effect - timing.

If a PC user buys an iPod, falls in love with it and is very impressed with the Mac software he/she is using with it there is a good chance they will look and maybe buy a Mac - but generally that will not be until they are ready to replace their existing PC. If someone has a fairly new PC then it will be a while before they make the switch for various reasons - like financial limitations.

If you assume the PC owner has 12 - 18 months lag time between getting the iPod and being ready to buy a new computer then sworthy's graph shows that immediate sales will not be that strong. At 18 months and a 5% conversion rate it's only about 45,000 to 50,000 Macs this quarter from a halo effect (assuming all iPods are in the hands of PC users). The huge upswing in iPod sales is in the last 2 quarters so look for a 1 to 2 year lag time for these to switch.

Assuming a flash iPod is announced in January and that it has the sales rate Smith Barney projected (22 million units over 2 years) there should be a major swing in the 2006 - 2008 time frame, when Apple will probably have G5's in the lower models and G6s in the top ranges.

If a 2 year wait seems unreasonable then remember that Apple worked with IBM on the G5 for 2+ years before announcing it. 😀
 
kenaustus said:
There is one important factor related to the halo effect - timing.

Exactly! Also, each future quarter for the next two years is really going to be explosive, so 18 - 24 months after that will be even better.
 
I think it would be great if Apple sold this as a kind of iPod/Flash drive. The bottom portion of this iPod unit would have a USB connector and you could just plug it into the port. No need for a cable or dock. It's anyone's guess to what the capacity of these things will be but I would like to see in the $99 or less range.
 
Toshiba jumping the gun again?

Wasn't Toshiba just in Apple's doghouse for announcing it would supply 60 GB microdrives to Apple before Apple announced the iPod Photo? Wonder how mad Steve will get, and whether Steve might cancel the contract because of this (it has happened before...remember the problem with ATI?)
 
flash is good.

benpatient said:
what happened to Steve making fun of flash-based players last year when he debuted the mini?

I guess apple has realized that working out with a HD-based player isn't an option, and that they are missing out on a LOT of customers?

or have they figured out that most people aren't interested in a 600 dollar photo book with a 2" screen?

Cause I don't know anyone personally who thinks the photo iPods are worth the extra cash.

steve was making fun of the CAPACITY of flash based players.

you can now buy 8 gb compact flash cards now. why use hd based players when a lighter, cheaper, unskipable alternative is out there. apple can go even smaller than the current mini form factor with flash. flash is better.
 
ehurtley said:
Hitachi and Seagate now both make 1.8" drives. Seagate even makes 1" drives. (a.k.a. "Microdrives")

However you have to factor in price which is a major thing in this part.

Remember Apple has been using Toshiba drives for how many years so they are getting VERY GOOD PRICING. The would get a good price with the other companies however not as good as the one with Toshiba.

So yes there is a difference, and staying with Toshiba also means that the old problems have been worked out moving with another would only cause more problems and delays as seen with Hitachi and the 1" Drive. Hopefully they use the 0.85" Drives by Toshiba and make the already small mini smaller that would be even cooler, or use the 0.85" drives, keep the mini size and boost the battery life. 🙂
 
appleface said:
steve was making fun of the CAPACITY of flash based players.

you can now buy 8 gb compact flash cards now. why use hd based players when a lighter, cheaper, unskipable alternative is out there. apple can go even smaller than the current mini form factor with flash. flash is better.

Do you realize the COST with the 2gig and over Flash cards, you are talking nonsense. You would be paying as much if not more for a 8gig flash pod then a 20gig HDD iPod.

It will happen in time when cost drops however not anytime soon. Unless they have a 20gig flash around the corner with the same price point as the mini at current, I do not see this happening. 🙂
 
MacinDoc said:
Wasn't Toshiba just in Apple's doghouse for announcing it would supply 60 GB microdrives to Apple before Apple announced the iPod Photo? Wonder how mad Steve will get, and whether Steve might cancel the contract because of this (it has happened before...remember the problem with ATI?)

Though Steve and Co, has other choices they get a VERY VERY GOOD price from Toshiba for working with them for so long, a simple matter of business. Going with another will only cut into Apples profit margin.
 
appleface said:
you can now buy 8 gb compact flash cards now. why use hd based players when a lighter, cheaper, unskipable alternative is out there.

Cuz they're expensive as hell. An 8 GB CF card is probably far more pricier than a 20 GB microdrive...

Edit: Like Maya was saying... (Damn, stole my thunder)
 
ioinc said:
And there are people who don't currently own a mac and don't own an iPod that WILL ALSO buy a mac.

The point is that people don't make the decision on which computer to buy based on the type of mp3 player they use.

You statement is partially true, since it would make no sense to buy a wintel box to use a flash mp3 player.

Better idea is to use VPC.

However mini and iPod have x86 iTunes so why buy a Mac, what is not broken why fix it. Sure some people will be inclined to take a look and maybe even buy a Mac for the first time since they own a mini or iPod however that is a limited population. Just because you have owned a FORD and like the BMW you are not going to run out and by a BMW since what your budget can handle is all you will settle for. If it is a simple matter of being cheap then that is your concern. 🙂
 
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