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Toshiba To Supply Apple With Flash Memory?
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SJ was making fun of flash because he didn't have one on the market. It was to sell people on the HD ipod, nothing more. Wouldn't you do the same?
He'll undoubtedly put a spin on it that when he said that, that the market wasn't ready or something like that... and he'll introduce it.
He'll undoubtedly put a spin on it that when he said that, that the market wasn't ready or something like that... and he'll introduce it.
rdowns said:
um.... kind of I guess. IBM still has a roughly 20% stake in Lenovo, who bought the PC segment from IBM for $1.75 billion I think. They have the rights to the "Think" name for 5 years.
Linky: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6666170/
dejo
Moderator emeritus
Why is there no mention in this story of the size of flash memory Toshiba is talking about? I think that would be an important piece of information to report. For example, if they are talking about 4 or 5 GB flash, then maybe Apple is just planning on updating the current iPod mini to use flash instead of HD. On the other hand, if they are talking about 512MB / 1GB / 2GB, it's a whole different story with completely different implications.
Macrumors said:
In a related story, I just supplied Toshiba with my face for use on their USB flash drive packaging, also appearing "early next year".
It is my hope in the next few months that many people will be grabbing my package.
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
rt_brained said:
A lot will depend on the size of your package.
Often flash drives come in packages much larger than the product itself. It makes it look much bigger while it's hanging in the store - bigger packages get more attention even though (without the padding) what's inside is no bigger than anyone else's.
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
4 Gibi-bit ?
Flash is a chip - a few gibi-bit is currently large. A flash device (like a compact flash card) will contain several flash chips, just like a memory DIMM contains several SDRAM chips to meet the desired capacity. Using four chips of 4 gibi-bit each would give you 2 GibiBytes of capacity. Apple could pick about any final size they desired, or several to fit different price points.
It's also possible that a flash Ipod would have the chips soldered to the main board. There's no need for the bulk and expense of a standard removable media device and its connectors in a player. So, Toshiba might just be supplying 4 gibi-bit chips to Apple's contract manufacturers in Asia, where they'll be soldered onto the board.
A recent press announcement (http://www.electronicstalk.com/news/tos/tos220.html) said that Toshiba would begin production of 4 Gib chips towards the end of this year.
dejo said:
Flash is a chip - a few gibi-bit is currently large. A flash device (like a compact flash card) will contain several flash chips, just like a memory DIMM contains several SDRAM chips to meet the desired capacity. Using four chips of 4 gibi-bit each would give you 2 GibiBytes of capacity. Apple could pick about any final size they desired, or several to fit different price points.
It's also possible that a flash Ipod would have the chips soldered to the main board. There's no need for the bulk and expense of a standard removable media device and its connectors in a player. So, Toshiba might just be supplying 4 gibi-bit chips to Apple's contract manufacturers in Asia, where they'll be soldered onto the board.
A recent press announcement (http://www.electronicstalk.com/news/tos/tos220.html) said that Toshiba would begin production of 4 Gib chips towards the end of this year.
billyboy
macrumors 65816
The iPod "silence"
I hope Apple are thinking as far ahead as me. Within 10 years the world's ears will be full of iPod noise, mostly harmonious tunes depending on your taste, and from flash and hdd versions. But Apple really need to be thinking of the next fad, which I predict will be for "silence please, so we can hear ourselves think." A lot of people are scared of silence, but Apple could show them how to do "Silence" properly.
Sorry, I just had a mind changing experience 😱
I hope Apple are thinking as far ahead as me. Within 10 years the world's ears will be full of iPod noise, mostly harmonious tunes depending on your taste, and from flash and hdd versions. But Apple really need to be thinking of the next fad, which I predict will be for "silence please, so we can hear ourselves think." A lot of people are scared of silence, but Apple could show them how to do "Silence" properly.
Sorry, I just had a mind changing experience 😱
dejo
Moderator emeritus
AidenShaw said:
Thanks for the explanation. Much appreciated.
As for "There's no need for the bulk and expense of a standard removable media device and its connectors in a player", I'm certain there are a number of forum members here who would disagree (though, I'm not one of them). If this new iPod is introduced without a removable media slot, there will be at least one person complaining, "What? No CF slot? What was Apple thinking? 😡 "
atomiton said:
He wasn't making fun of flash players based on the fact they're using flash, but because their capacities were ridiculously low.
If they do introduce iPod Flash at under 1GB, then I'll be the one laughing. ;-)
Especially if it's above 129~149$US.
AidenShaw said:
I sure hope the iPod Flash will use at least two of those chips... A 512MB iPod Flash would kinda suck (IMO).
Then again, I'm perfectly happy with my 10GB iPod, and a lot of people would say that's not nearly enough...
dejo said:
Even if there IS a slot (for the whole/to add) memory, people will complain anyway. Remember there is about 4-5 formats of memory cards (CompactFlash, MMC/SD, Memory Stick, SmartMedia, XD).
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
only two real possibilities - xD and SD
Of these, we can eliminate a couple right away:
One is unlikely:
That leaves xD and SD as the most likely, due to physical size (they are tiny to the point of being a bit tricky to handle) and capacity. Current xD limit is 512 MB (plans for up to 8 GB), current SD limit is 1 GB.
I still would consider a media card unlikely - especially as the main storage option. Buying the flash chips in bulk and putting them on the micro motherboard seems to be a better way to get capacity in the 2GB range without pushing the price above the mini.
Another argument against an external card would be that it would make it more difficult to make a weather-proof device if it had to have an opening for a card. (Although, Olympus makes weatherproof cameras, a harder task.)
See prices and available sizes at:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_flash.asp
Yvan256 said:
Of these, we can eliminate a couple right away:
- Smart Media - forget it, max capacity 128 MB
- Memory Stick Pro - too proprietary, therefore too expensive
One is unlikely:
- CompactFlash - big capacity, but very big package. Needs eject mechanism to fit flush. 4 GB cards are over $300.
That leaves xD and SD as the most likely, due to physical size (they are tiny to the point of being a bit tricky to handle) and capacity. Current xD limit is 512 MB (plans for up to 8 GB), current SD limit is 1 GB.
I still would consider a media card unlikely - especially as the main storage option. Buying the flash chips in bulk and putting them on the micro motherboard seems to be a better way to get capacity in the 2GB range without pushing the price above the mini.
Another argument against an external card would be that it would make it more difficult to make a weather-proof device if it had to have an opening for a card. (Although, Olympus makes weatherproof cameras, a harder task.)
See prices and available sizes at:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_flash.asp
The Red Wolf
macrumors regular
iPod Express
I think a flash based iPod with a BlueTooth chip to sync for $149 w/o BT and $199 + 2X the memory would be perfect. And in totally separate shades from the Mini. Bluetooth head phones. No more wires!
I think a flash based iPod with a BlueTooth chip to sync for $149 w/o BT and $199 + 2X the memory would be perfect. And in totally separate shades from the Mini. Bluetooth head phones. No more wires!
The Red Wolf said:
BT is 1 megabit. Thats 400 slower than firewire. Its not fun to sync large files in that mode.
Eniregnat
macrumors 68000
Why do we assume that the memory is for an iPod?
Why do we assume that the memory is for an iPod?
This could also be for some ultra efficient drive that will be added to the PBs, ala apples early virtual drive (//gs), in which frequently used applications or modules are automatically loaded into a dedicated piece of memory for quick call up with low power consumption. Because its flash, rewriting it back the HD on power failure or sleep wont be necessary. This certainly would speed application loading, or at least document loading, and would reduce HD use and thus power consumption.
On the more realistic side, if its for a iPod we know that the memory being provided must either be in the .5 gb to 1gb range at a phenomenal cost rate, or the manufacturer is providing higher flash 2-5gb in a single small package. The logic being 1gb flash chips are not uncommon nor expensive, and bulk purchasing makes the rate competitive. Perhaps Apple has gone one step further and rather than using the high voltage flash memory 12-15+volts, perhaps they have ordered something sub 6v or 3v.
On the weird side, perhaps the memory is part of a new feature for a next generation wireless hub. Why it would need virtual memory, I dont know. Now that I think about it, adding additional memory to the AirPort or APExpress would be neat, but it wouldnt make sense to have anything other than static memory.
Why do we assume that the memory is for an iPod?
This could also be for some ultra efficient drive that will be added to the PBs, ala apples early virtual drive (//gs), in which frequently used applications or modules are automatically loaded into a dedicated piece of memory for quick call up with low power consumption. Because its flash, rewriting it back the HD on power failure or sleep wont be necessary. This certainly would speed application loading, or at least document loading, and would reduce HD use and thus power consumption.
On the more realistic side, if its for a iPod we know that the memory being provided must either be in the .5 gb to 1gb range at a phenomenal cost rate, or the manufacturer is providing higher flash 2-5gb in a single small package. The logic being 1gb flash chips are not uncommon nor expensive, and bulk purchasing makes the rate competitive. Perhaps Apple has gone one step further and rather than using the high voltage flash memory 12-15+volts, perhaps they have ordered something sub 6v or 3v.
On the weird side, perhaps the memory is part of a new feature for a next generation wireless hub. Why it would need virtual memory, I dont know. Now that I think about it, adding additional memory to the AirPort or APExpress would be neat, but it wouldnt make sense to have anything other than static memory.
I hope no one minds me pointing this out, but if windows users start buying a flash ipod they will probably have to install itunes.
I think Apple's strategy may be to increase number of itunes users and increase revenue for the itunes store.
But I could be wrong
It happened once before
I think it was on a Tuesday in 1977.
I think Apple's strategy may be to increase number of itunes users and increase revenue for the itunes store.
But I could be wrong
It happened once before
I think it was on a Tuesday in 1977.