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Touch ID and A7 Secure Enclave Detailed in Updated Apple Security Document

In addition to the Touch ID info, I thought the iMessage and Siri stuff was pretty interesting.

I didn't realize photos and long texts were encrypted and uploaded to iCloud first, then the receiving device downloads the data.

And with Siri, I hadn't realized that contact names and relationships, music library information, and reminder lists are uploaded to the Siri server.
 
goobot said:
Well just because the devs can use it doesn't mean it isn't secure. iOS cydia tweaks can't actually access the fingerprint data yet can use the fingerprint scanner.
Click to expand...

I guess my point was since it's open to developers people would be more interested in how it's implemented and how the security works.
 
Still waiting for Al Franken to send this to Samsung. Where is the concern over how secure Samsung's finger print scanner is? Seems to me a bit hypocritical that there was all this hysteria around Touch ID and with the Galaxy S5 it's basically a collective yawn.
 
WestonHarvey1 said:
My 5S's sensor appears to be deteriorating in recent weeks. I've gone from at least a 90% success rate to a 10% success rate. I have redone my prints multiple times. It seems like I get better results if I clean the home button every time, but you shouldn't have to do that, and it makes me suspect a hardware failure.
Click to expand...

Turn off fingerprint recognition-- delete all stored fingerprints. Then re-enable and train it again. Fixed mine, and it's stayed fixed.
 
Touch ID Demo

I'd be interested in knowing what happens with the Touch ID demos in the stores. If the A7 has no access to the sensor, is the Secure Enclave reading and verifying the data? Is it stored in there and then erased?
 
WestonHarvey1 said:
My 5S's sensor appears to be deteriorating in recent weeks. I've gone from at least a 90% success rate to a 10% success rate. I have redone my prints multiple times. It seems like I get better results if I clean the home button every time, but you shouldn't have to do that, and it makes me suspect a hardware failure.
Click to expand...

I think the cat is messing with you when you are sleeping. Check for a catnip purchase on Amazon!
 
Tech198 said:
I always take for granted how companies can be so sure of themselves ad they just post up a complete document on how it all works, going by their own secure stuff they are obviously sure enough to bet on its safe, otherwise they wouldn't post it to begin with ...

Truth this, while these documents are all ok, Samsung and others don't need every bit of info here, as they seem to get into ;'hot water' on their own.

Besides, didn't Apple do a patent on this ? Apart from being just a reference, the fact that everyone now knows exactly how it works, what is stopping people having a lawsuit ?

tickle,, the NSA raises their glasses to triumph.
Click to expand...


You seem to misunderstand what this document is for. The system is not secure because people don't know how it works - that would be security through obscurity, which is not secure at all. It's secure by design. Telling people the specifics of that design does not make it any less secure, nor does it make it easier to copy (we'd pretty much guessed exactly how it worked before, but now we have it officially in spec from Apple).
 
JHankwitz said:
Sure appears to be far more secure than the 4-digit pin for access.
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The real concern isn't access to my phone, it's access to my key.

If someone steals my 4-digit pin, that's all they have. If they steal my fingerprint, well, that's much more problematic.
 
scoobydoo99 said:
The real concern isn't access to my phone, it's access to my key.

If someone steals my 4-digit pin, that's all they have. If they steal my fingerprint, well, that's much more problematic.
Click to expand...

True

The big issue is if the finger doesn't scan most people have a 4 digit code. My friend guessed mine after 17 tries.

The finger print should require a more complex code otherwise it becomes useless. There should be an option to also require fingerprint and code if you wish if your phone has very secure data on it.
 
My issued with TouchID isn't security, it's that it sucks.

I have to re-learn my fingerprint every 90 days. TouchID gets worse and worse and worse as time rolls on.
 
MichaelJohnston said:
I'd be interested in knowing what happens with the Touch ID demos in the stores. If the A7 has no access to the sensor, is the Secure Enclave reading and verifying the data? Is it stored in there and then erased?
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly, the Apple stores wipe and restore the computers every night after they close. Maybe this is also done with the iPhones every night when the Apple store closes.
 
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scoobydoo99 said:
The real concern isn't access to my phone, it's access to my key.

If someone steals my 4-digit pin, that's all they have. If they steal my fingerprint, well, that's much more problematic.
Click to expand...

Well it's a good thing that your fingerprint isn't stored anywhere. Just a mathematical interpretation of it, what do you think this actually takes a picture of your finger?:confused:
 
Plutonius said:
It most likely means that the fingerprint data is encrypted by the iPhone as opposed to sending the RAW data out to be encrypted.
Click to expand...
that's exactly what it means. and there is nothing bad or less secure about this, quite the opposite. this is how it should be.
WestonHarvey1 said:
My 5S's sensor appears to be deteriorating in recent weeks. I've gone from at least a 90% success rate to a 10% success rate. I have redone my prints multiple times. It seems like I get better results if I clean the home button every time, but you shouldn't have to do that, and it makes me suspect a hardware failure.
Click to expand...
lots of people posted about this issue here and on the apple support forums. happens to me too. this seems to be a software rather than a hardware problem. According to Apple, touch id is using some kind of software algorithm which is supposed to improve the fingerprint recognition the more you use it. the reality seems to be the opposite. I hope they improve it in the next iphone. won't help us though. I wish there was a way to just turn this learning algorithm off.
 
MichaelJohnston said:
I'd be interested in knowing what happens with the Touch ID demos in the stores. If the A7 has no access to the sensor, is the Secure Enclave reading and verifying the data? Is it stored in there and then erased?
Click to expand...

Yes the secure enclave completely handles the touch id sensor. In fact if your touch id sensor goes bad the A7 has to be replaced too (in other words the sensor is matched to the A7 in the iPhone). It was confirmed when the 5S came out that you can't switch sensors with different iPhones.
The secure enclave is a part of ARMv8. It allows the creation of a separate secure operating system and processor for things like touch id that operate independent of the main operating system and can't be hacked through iOS.
 
joe-h2o said:
Telling people the specifics of that design does not make it any less secure, nor does it make it easier to copy.
Click to expand...

How so ?

So your saying something that is out in the open is no less secure than something that's kept ?

Isn't telling people what security that's used and exactly how it works, gives them an advantage to try and attack what they would otherwise have to find out for themselves (hence more secure) because they don't know ? Regardless of the method used for security.

Its like picking a lock vs telling someone how to (it may not be easy based on what security, but at least telling peple, you have something to go on, vs nothing at all)
 
Tech198 said:
How so ?

So your saying something that is out in the open is no less secure than something that's kept ?

Isn't telling people what security that's used and exactly how it works, gives them an advantage to try and attack what they would otherwise have to find out for themselves (hence more secure) because they don't know ? Regardless of the method used for security.

Its like picking a lock vs telling someone how to (it may not be easy based on what security, but at least telling people, you have something to go on, vs nothing at all)
Click to expand...

That would be security through obscurity.

A good security system should be secure even if people know exactly how it works.

That's why a regular key lock sucks, because if you know how to pick it, it's useless.

In contrast, most encryption and authentication algorithms can be found right on Wikipedia. Yet they have not been broken even with thousands of the brightest PhD and computers pouring over it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity
 
The amount of Samsung envy in these posts suggests buyers are only content with their iPhone's after they justify the purchase by making slanderous comments about the competition.

Why they fail to stay on topic and conduct an intelligent conversation about Touch ID and A7 Secure Enclave is very revealing. Furthermore there will always be competition, therefore these same Samsung bashers will never be happy. Why one attaches their happiness to a smartphone is rather sad.

I find Apples approach a good one and have no desire to deflect attention to Samsung.
 
MatthewAMEL said:
My issued with TouchID isn't security, it's that it sucks.

I have to re-learn my fingerprint every 90 days. TouchID gets worse and worse and worse as time rolls on.
Click to expand...

strange, Mine has been set since OCT2013 and never had to do it again, got 2 for right thumb [most used], 1 left thumb, 1 right index finger and it works 99% of the time unless my hands are too moist, wet or dirty.
 
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