Touch ID and A7 Secure Enclave Detailed in Updated Apple Security Document

[H2SO4]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha post the right question here and see what happens

Fanboi/Fandroid all bad as each other, simple as that.

Nice try.

Apple Fanbois are worse. They have had years to become seasoned professionals now. Love their products tho.

 

[PracticalMac]

I posted a question concerning obvious Android fanaticism on the Android Police site some months ago. The amount of hate posts received in response to what was a simple and honest question was astounding. Bottom line is that Apple Fanbois are much more civilized and even tempered than are Fandroids, IMHO.

I think its because they are more concentrated.
I am pretty sure the huge percentage of Android users don't give a crap about the OS, just they have a smartphone.
So it tends to be high concentrate of vocal rabid Fandroids.

iOS OTOH is made up of a larger portion of owners who knew and wanted an iPhone, so are more connected and knowledgeable. Yes their are iOS fanatics, but a smaller % of the participating group.

my 2 cents

 

[avanpelt]

My 5S's sensor appears to be deteriorating in recent weeks. I've gone from at least a 90% success rate to a 10% success rate. I have redone my prints multiple times. It seems like I get better results if I clean the home button every time, but you shouldn't have to do that, and it makes me suspect a hardware failure.

I've had mixed results with my wife's 5s from November until now during cold weather when the skin on my hands can be particularly dry. I've found that if I make sure my skin isn't dry, I have a 95+% success rate being recognized the first time. When my skin is dry, I basically have a 5% success rate or less.

Before I caught on to dry skin being the culprit, I deleted and re-added my fingerprints two or three times at various points over the winter. The problem was, I think, that I re-trained it with my fingerprints when the skin was dry. Touch ID would then work perfectly until a day or two or more later when perhaps my skin was more moisturized than it had been when I registered my fingerprints a few days earlier. Or perhaps the dry skin that had been there sloughed off causing Touch ID to not be able to recognize my fingerprint. I'm not sure.

Anyway, I know that if I register my fingerprint when my skin isn't dry and then make sure my skin isn't dry when I try to use Touch ID, it lets me into the phone almost every time the first time. If it happens to miss on the first try, it lets me in the second time.

 

[JAT]

I posted a question concerning obvious Android fanaticism on the Android Police site some months ago. The amount of hate posts received in response to what was a simple and honest question was astounding. Bottom line is that Apple Fanbois are much more civilized and even tempered than are Fandroids, IMHO.

Perhaps you'd get even fewer negative responses if you stopped poking people.

 

[cclloyd]

Good timing with the new Samsung S5 Touch-wipe-button. Hey how come no one cares about security when Samsung does it yet when Apple does it we all FLIP?

I feel like there may be a little bias going on there but I also feel that some people are assuming that it's similar or identical in handling the fingerprints to the 5S, given the nature of Samsung's devices.

 

[JAT]

Yes well.. You see, Al Franken actually uses Apple products. It's much easier when you care about the product.

And the product Franken cares about is publicity.

 

[WestonHarvey1]

I've had mixed results with my wife's 5s from November until now during cold weather when the skin on my hands can be particularly dry. I've found that if I make sure my skin isn't dry, I have a 95+% success rate being recognized the first time. When my skin is dry, I basically have a 5% success rate or less.

Before I caught on to dry skin being the culprit, I deleted and re-added my fingerprints two or three times at various points over the winter. The problem was, I think, that I re-trained it with my fingerprints when the skin was dry. Touch ID would then work perfectly until a day or two or more later when perhaps my skin was more moisturized than it had been when I registered my fingerprints a few days earlier. Or perhaps the dry skin that had been there sloughed off causing Touch ID to not be able to recognize my fingerprint. I'm not sure.

Anyway, I know that if I register my fingerprint when my skin isn't dry and then make sure my skin isn't dry when I try to use Touch ID, it lets me into the phone almost every time the first time. If it happens to miss on the first try, it lets me in the second time.

The one thing that's out of the ordinary is that when I go through the fingerprint training process, it now tells me what appears to 2 different warning popups - either that I need to move my finger more, or that I'm moving it too much. I always get both warnings at least once during any training session. I never used to see those.

 

[avanpelt]

The one thing that's out of the ordinary is that when I go through the fingerprint training process, it now tells me what appears to 2 different warning popups - either that I need to move my finger more, or that I'm moving it too much. I always get both warnings at least once during any training session. I never used to see those.

That is odd. I don't think I've ever seen those warnings during fingerprint training. Maybe it is a hardware issue. If you're close to an Apple Store, you may want to make an appointment at the Genius Bar.

 

[Klae17]

Because you're on an Apple-based website?

There are other sites on the inter web and other news outlets too. They all freaked out.

 

[jrswizzle]

strange, Mine has been set since OCT2013 and never had to do it again, got 2 for right thumb [most used], 1 left thumb, 1 right index finger and it works 99% of the time unless my hands are too moist, wet or dirty.

Me too - hasn't gotten worse at all and I've had mine setup since launch day. If it were a software issue, wouldn't everyone be affected? Think perhaps its either a hardware issue, or people exaggerating.

----------

You are aware that you can turn OFF the simple 4 digit pass code and choose to have a complex much longer password? It makes much more sense now with touch ID because you don't have to enter it every time you unlock the phone. Only when you restart it, or if your touch ID fails after several attempts.

This is part of why the fingerprint sensor is more secure. I'd normally have a 4-digit code on my phone. Now I have my fingerprint AND a complex password.

----------

The real concern isn't access to my phone, it's access to my key.

If someone steals my 4-digit pin, that's all they have. If they steal my fingerprint, well, that's much more problematic.

I still don't understand this sentiment. What is someone going to do with your fingerprint? In order to get into your iPhone they need time and a whole lot of equipment in order to properly copy and utilize a stolen fingerprint on an iPhone.

Not to mention - how much more difficult is it to "steal" a fingerprint than figure out a 4-digit code? And what else is a fingerprint used for? Your prints are already stored and available to the government.....

 

[Arndroid]

Good timing with the new Samsung S5 Touch-wipe-button. Hey how come no one cares about security when Samsung does it yet when Apple does it we all FLIP?

Please explain the tech Samsung uses to secure their fingerprint data. All I know so far is you have to make an actual sliding motion for recognition which out of the gate makes it significantly less user friendly. We will see how Samsung is securing the data when they release their information.

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All I have read is that they use "local encryption" whatever that means in this context. Doesn't sound all that secure to me, but I am far from knowledgable on this subject.

It means none of your data leaves your device. In fact your fingerprint is encrypted and entangled as read so there is almost no window to intercept the data if you had access to the device itself. All the local encryption means is it is all self contained and none of it is broadcast. This is a good thing.

 

[Klae17]

Please explain the tech Samsung uses to secure their fingerprint data. All I know so far is you have to make an actual sliding motion for recognition which out of the gate makes it significantly less user friendly. We will see how Samsung is securing the data when they release their information.

----------



It means none of your data leaves your device. In fact your fingerprint is encrypted and entangled as read so there is almost no window to intercept the data if you had access to the device itself. All the local encryption means is it is all self contained and none of it is broadcast. This is a good thing.

Why do I have to explain anything? I'm not an engineer nor did I claim any technical knowledge on the matter.

 

[unplugme71]

You are aware that you can turn OFF the simple 4 digit pass code and choose to have a complex much longer password? It makes much more sense now with touch ID because you don't have to enter it every time you unlock the phone. Only when you restart it, or if your touch ID fails after several attempts.

I am aware. I am simply stating that it should be 'forced' and not an 'option' when using TouchID

 

[scoobydoo99]

Well it's a good thing that your fingerprint isn't stored anywhere. Just a mathematical interpretation of it, what do you think this actually takes a picture of your finger?

and your post travelled across the internet as a mathematical interpretation expressed in electrons. what's your point? anyone, most assuredly the NSA, can interpret a mathematical representation with the appropriate key (provided by Apple or deciphered)

 

[NT1440]

and your post travelled across the internet as a mathematical interpretation expressed in electrons. what's your point? anyone, most assuredly the NSA, can interpret a mathematical representation with the appropriate key (provided by Apple or deciphered)

Read up. Apple doesn't have the key, it's unique to each and every A7/TouchID pairing (the reason you can't simply replace the touchID when it breaks) and is assigned in real time in the factory.

Really though, if someone really wanted your fingerprint so bad would you:

A: Pull off some NSA level crime movie master scheme of hackery

or

B: Dust the friggin glass surface of the phone


People these days...

 

[scoobydoo99]

Read up. Apple doesn't have the key, it's unique to each and every A7/TouchID pairing (the reason you can't simply replace the touchID when it breaks) and is assigned in real time in the factory.

Really though, if someone really wanted your fingerprint so bad would you:

A: Pull off some NSA level crime movie master scheme of hackery

or

B: Dust the friggin glass surface of the phone


People these days...

I suppose if you believe whatever Apple and the NSA tell you, there really is no point in discussing it. I'm sure if TouchID were insecure "they" would let you know, right?

As for dusting for prints, that's great if you're a detective in the 1920's - it's ridiculously impractical in 2014. Surrepticiously receiving that same information electronically for hundreds of millions of people, and correlating that print with other electronic ID information, is vastly more effective for the surveillance state.

 

[Brian1980]

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