Touchscreen MacBook Pro to Be 'Touch-Friendly, Not Touch-First'

[Ethosik]

My gosh are some of you guys yelling at clouds right now.

Both of these comments bring me back to the heady days of the late 80's and early 90's when people (mainly DOS users, of course) were complaining about how "needing a mouse" just to use the computer was going to be such a pain and a massive productivity suck. "Real" power-users didn't need a mouse, after all.

Fast forward to the mid-90's and the early 00's when most Mac users didn't "need" such fancy things like preemptive multitasking, protected memory, multiple users, or OS-level security. Can you imagine still using "Classic" Mac OS because Mac OS X in its early iterations was too slow and buggy for "real" users? Heck, going into the early 2000's, most people didn't even "need" always-on internet service.

And then fast forward to the mid-2000's when people didn't "need" the power of a full computer crammed into their cell phone.

Things change, dudes. Time for Apple's tired desktop OS to join at least the 2010's.

This is nowhere near the same thing as adding a mouse. I get no extra benefit from a touch screen than I can with my mouse or trackpad. Heck it's so much worse. My hand is ALREADY on my mouse and keyboard. I get NO benefit from taking my hand off my mouse or keyboard, stretching OVER the keyboard and touching the screen to scroll. I just use my mouse wheel. It is 10x faster. "Pinch to zoom"? My hand is already on the trackpad and I can do it immediately without moving my hand and making the screen dirty.

This is a different discussion than a Wacom tablet or an iPad and using that for touch. Those devices are dedicated and I have those devices for when I want to draw.

 

[Ethosik]

Hard disagree with pretty much everything you said.

Bringing liquid glass to the Mac was step 1 of the process of enabling touch based input in macOS. Mark my words.

It's coming.

Uh someone said the same thing when they brought Launchpad to Mac many years ago. Everyone hated it. Everyone hates Liquid Glass.

 

[PCMacUser]

I have a 15” touchscreen laptop that’s about 6 years old. The display is OLED, 4K, touch, Dolby Vision capable.

I never ever use the touch feature. But everyone has different needs and wants. It doesn’t hurt me at all to have touchscreen there because I don’t have to use it.

If Apple wants to incorporate it into future products as a passive feature that’s fine by me. You don’t have to buy that model or use the touch feature. It’s not mandatory.

 

[routine_analyst]

If this hot garbage does not let the screen flip around in closed mode to turn it into a tablet, this will be as useless as the Touch Bar. Just pure idiocy if it doesn't.

 

[PCMacUser]

If this hot garbage does not let the screen flip around in closed mode to turn it into a tablet, this will be as useless as the Touch Bar. Just pure idiocy if it doesn't.

These ‘360’ style laptops that flip around to turn into tablets aren’t popular anymore in the PC world (it started happening a few years ago). Few people wanted them, so a lot of these products have been discontinued. You can still buy them, sure, but not like before.

 

[Brother Cavil]

The same statement goes to you. It's not all about you. You don't NEED a touch screen on the Mac either. So at what point, why even discuss anything at all?

How do you know what I or anyone else needs? Unbelievably self-centered take. Wow.

I had to deal with it when Windows 8 was around. I suffered because I DID NOT USE touch.

By all means, tell us all how much you SUFFERED because there was an OPTIONAL touch screen. There's a term for that. FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS.

This is literally the same arguments that were being made when Windows 8 was announced and rumored and Surface devices were starting to come out.

This isn't like additional RAM. This will require an entire paradigm shift in macOS just like what Windows went through.

A touch screen you don't have to use will require an entire paradigm shift? Dramatic much??? Wow. Pretty sure every Windows user was still able to use a mouse or trackpad. And since when do we judge Apple's ability implement a feature based on what Microsoft does?

Heck even iPadOS has trouble with touch I HATE how they handle windowed apps on iPad. macOS and iPadOS need to be separate. iPadOS is getting much worse, macOS will get worse.

Totally agree that macOS and iPadOS should NOT merge, but that doesn't mean an OPTIONAL touch screen on the Mac will change anything for your workflow.

In the end, though, it really doesn't matter what either one of us thinks. Apple will add a touch screen, the sky will not fall, people who don't like it won't use it, and people who want it will be happy. I see no problem here. So much DRAMA around this issue. Makes me wonder what kind of lives people lead to get so worked up over something so trivial.

 

[Brother Cavil]

And yet, in that very same year…

Apple iPad Keyboard Dock review: Apple iPad Keyboard Dock

Apple iPad Keyboard Dock

www.cnet.com

Also as already covered, the list of things Steve said he/Apple would never/could never/should never do and then immediately turned around and did while acting like he had the idea of the entire time is long enough to fill a whole book.
He said no video iPod, and then there was a video iPod. He said Apple would never make an E reader or an e-book store, and then introduced the iPad and the iBooks Store. He said the iPhone didn’t need third-party applications, and then introduced the AppStore.

I'm so sick and tired of the "Steve would never" crowd. Such a tiresome bunch! As if they have ANY CLUE what Steve would or would not have done. As if any of them worked under him or even met him. But somehow they all feel so entitled to tell everyone else what a guy who's been dead for over a decade would do. It's really embarrassing.

As you said, you could fill a book with things Steve said would NEVER happen and then he turned around and did them. It's like these people are utterly clueless about Apple's history and it's all some weird kind of hero worship.

 

[Brother Cavil]

My gosh are some of you guys yelling at clouds right now.

Both of these comments bring me back to the heady days of the late 80's and early 90's when people (mainly DOS users, of course) were complaining about how "needing a mouse" just to use the computer was going to be such a pain and a massive productivity suck. "Real" power-users didn't need a mouse, after all.

Fast forward to the mid-90's and the early 00's when most Mac users didn't "need" such fancy things like preemptive multitasking, protected memory, multiple users, or OS-level security. Can you imagine still using "Classic" Mac OS because Mac OS X in its early iterations was too slow and buggy for "real" users? Heck, going into the early 2000's, most people didn't even "need" always-on internet service.

And then fast forward to the mid-2000's when people didn't "need" the power of a full computer crammed into their cell phone.

Things change, dudes. Time for Apple's tired desktop OS to join at least the 2010's.

Very well said! This forum is full of luddites and people lacking vision. I guess they just really miss the days when their Macs crashed multiple times per day and they had to run Conflict Catcher to figure out which extension was causing a problem. I thought Apple users were more forward thinking.

 

[Ethosik]

How do you know what I or anyone else needs? Unbelievably self-centered take. Wow.

Sigh....we keep going round and round on here. I don't want a touch screen, You do. We are both self-centered. Like my original statement indicates. You are telling me "Just deal with it" because you get what YOU want.

By all means, tell us all how much you SUFFERED because there was an OPTIONAL touch screen. There's a term for that. FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS.

I already said this multiple times. Windows 8 UI changes were NOT optional. Even if I had a 27" monitor, three of them in fact, I still got the "touchified" UI changes to Windows as a result of it. That is why Microsoft faced a lot of backlash. This is not a hot take, the general consensus was Windows 8 UI SUCKED because touch interface was forced on everyone.

 

[Brother Cavil]

Sigh....we keep going round and round on here. I don't want a touch screen, You do. We are both self-centered. Like my original statement indicates. You are telling me "Just deal with it" because you get what YOU want.

Actually you're wrong. Again, making assumptions. I don't want a touch screen at all. But I also couldn't care less if Apple adds one. Plenty of people want it and I'm fine with that. I think it's ridiculous the way people get so worked up over a feature they don't have to use.

And your cost argument is ridiculous. I don't need Promotion or Apple Pencil support on my iPad or plenty of other Apple features. Imagine if everyone complained about features they don't want affecting cost. There would be ZERO innovation and we'd still be using monochrome screens and the command line.

I already said this multiple times. Windows 8 UI changes were NOT optional. Even if I had a 27" monitor, three of them in fact, I still got the "touchified" UI changes to Windows as a result of it. That is why Microsoft faced a lot of backlash. This is not a hot take, the general consensus was Windows 8 UI SUCKED because touch interface was forced on everyone.

And I'll say this again, who cares? Since when do we judge Apple's ability to implement a feature based on something Microsoft did? Who cares if the Window touch UI sucked? The Mac isn't a Windows machine. Another red herring. Every one of your arguments is a red herring.

 

[andrewsyd]

What we really need next is a foldable laptop. Oh wait 🤔

 

[SammyG7]

Interested to see how the nano texture handles this. I’ve heard the nano on the iPad is different than the MBP, and I believe it because when I accidentally touch my screen it is sort of an event. Unless I have a microfiber cloth near by. Wiping it with a shirt just smears everywhere. But the iPad must be different.

 

[svish]

Waiting to see this new laptop. I would like to have the touch option. The shift to Dynamic Island from the notch will be nice. Also would like to see cellular connectivity on the new Macs. Think it till be $200 more in general and an additional $200 for cellular connectivity. Expecting to see this in October/November of this year.

 

[cheesygrin]

Buying the M5 MBP when it is announced....I have no need for this touch nonsense.

I'm inclined to agree - the M5 will be the best version of the current proven design, so should be a safe choice.

That said, I doubt the touchscreen will be standard across the M6 range. I would imagine a completely seperate, premium model - or possibly a screen upgrade option, like nano texture is currently - so there should be an option for those of us that don't want touchscreen.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

These ‘360’ style laptops that flip around to turn into tablets aren’t popular anymore in the PC world (it started happening a few years ago). Few people wanted them, so a lot of these products have been discontinued. You can still buy them, sure, but not like before.

The problem with the 360 laptops is that, when you put it in tablet mode, it still as heavy as a laptop.
Even the first iPad back from 2010 was only 1.5 LB, most of the 360 laptops are 3 Lb or more.
Lenova yoga laptops, likely the most popular 360 touch computers, are all between 2.8 and 3.1 LB.
The iPad Pro on the other hand is 0.91 Lb.
This is why the iPad and Mac will never combine, laptops are more heavy, laptops are significantly thicker, laptops don’t have removable keyboards. Even something like the iPad with magic keyboard is significantly different from a laptop because when you want to use it in tablet mode, you just… Take the iPad off. And lose 2 Lb when doing so.
I mean, just imagine a 16 inch MacBook Pro with a 360 display. The MBP is already 4.7 Lb, but even assuming that they could shave half a pound off we are still talking about something that is as heavy as four iPads stacked upon each other, or close to two iPads with magic keyboards connected.
And this doesn’t even begin to start with the problems of setting the trackpad and keyboard flat on a table… they wobble and shake, and unlike an iPad with a camera bump you can’t mitigate it with a simple folio case.
Part of the charm of iPads is how easy they are to use anywhere, on the couch, in bed, in the car/bus, literally anywhere. A 5 LB 360 MacBook isn’t that.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

I'm so sick and tired of the "Steve would never" crowd. Such a tiresome bunch! As if they have ANY CLUE what Steve would or would not have done. As if any of them worked under him or even met him. But somehow they all feel so entitled to tell everyone else what a guy who's been dead for over a decade would do. It's really embarrassing.

As you said, you could fill a book with things Steve said would NEVER happen and then he turned around and did them. It's like these people are utterly clueless about Apple's history and it's all some weird kind of hero worship.

Right.
Literally video evidence of Steve in 2004 at the “All Things Digital” conference saying this:
“ digital cameras, and cell phones, you’re not going to want to sit there and edit these things, you’re not going to want to sit there and browse music on a tiny little screen.”

Slightly over two years later, he would be demoing a photo gallery and music browsing on the iPhone, later, introducing the iTunes Wi-Fi music store, iMovie for the iPhone, photo and video editing for the iPhone…
But you never see anyone bring that up.
Also, when Steve made his touchscreen Mac gorilla arms comments in 2010, he had no idea how much touchscreens would truly penetrate our society. He had no idea that one day we would be talking about refrigerators with touchscreens, car dashboards that are massive touchscreens, cooking equipment that is controlled by a touchscreen, television remotes that are controlled by a touchscreen, smart speakers with touchscreens, massive 40+ inch OLED monitors that have touchscreens… his opinion very well, and very likely, might have changed over two decades.
One thing is clear though, even in 2010 Apple was experimenting with touchscreen Macs…

Apple Patents a Desktop Touch-Screen Computer

An Apple patent shows a touch-screen iMac that can switch between a regular Mac operating system and an iPhone-like interface.

archive.nytimes.com

This is literally from the same year he made the “gorilla arms” comment.

 

[CATiNTHESTORE]

OMG - touch what …. This statement shows that company completely lost in their vision

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

I'm so sick and tired of the "Steve would never" crowd. Such a tiresome bunch! As if they have ANY CLUE what Steve would or would not have done. As if any of them worked under him or even met him. But somehow they all feel so entitled to tell everyone else what a guy who's been dead for over a decade would do. It's really embarrassing.

As you said, you could fill a book with things Steve said would NEVER happen and then he turned around and did them. It's like these people are utterly clueless about Apple's history and it's all some weird kind of hero worship.

Steve would NEVER post this!

 

[theluggage]

Also, when Steve made his touchscreen Mac gorilla arms comments in 2010, he had no idea how much touchscreens would truly penetrate our society.

[my emphasis]

Considering he'd just launched the iPad (a touch-first device) and that the launch of the iPhone had caused the entire mobile phone industry to swerve towards touch-first, I'd say that maybe - just maybe - he did have a bit of an idea.

Making a clamshell laptop touch first was a bad idea in 2010 and is still a bad idea in 2026 because you'd continually be reaching over the keyboard to touch the screen. Making a hand-held device with a purpose designed touch-first interface - well, you can't argue with the succes of iPhone and iPad. Making your refrigerator touch-first is more sensible because you're going to use it standing up. Making a car dashboard "touch first" is just incredibly bad and dangerous design because of the lack of tactile feedback for what should be 'eyes-free' actions.

(Microsoft tried to make Windows dual-mode for one very good reason: they had a near-monopoly on laptop/desktop OS, office and development software and if they wanted to carry that over to dominate the mobile market then their mobile devices had to be able to run full Windows and keyboard-first software)

So I agree that people have to be careful about applying these Steve-ism's but the issue is more about context and details than simply the passage of time.

Now, the whole origin of this thread is the claim that the (rumoured) touchscreen MBP won't be a touch-first device, so the whole "gorilla arms" thing is irrelevant - reaching out to touch the screen isn't one of the labours of Hercules, it's just not something you want to have to do for every interaction, especially during things like WP/text editing (selecting text on iPad is horrible).

So why does the MBP need touch as a secondary feature?

* A lot of PC laptops and Chromebooks throw in touch capability as standard or bundled with the retina-class screen option - so for starters it's just a nice marketing thing to add to comparison charts. It's not beyond the boundaries of possibility that some institutional purchasing departments have "touch screen" on their list of requirements "because reasons".

* There are a few cases where touch (especially multi-touch) would be nice and just feel natural - operating mixers in Logic or swiping between photos while browsing springs to mind.

* MacOS can already run iPad and iPhone apps, if the publisher allows it, having a multitouch display would make more of those Apps usable on a Mac.

* MacOS is widely used to develop iPad/iPhone/Watch Apps - a touch screen would be useful for testing these.

* MacOS is also used to develop web and other crossplatform apps, which may be used on touchscreen devices. The one thing you can't really simulate on a Mac (even in a Windows VM or iOS emulation) is touch-screen (and, yes, there are some nuances of that which will get you).

* This is not bleeding-edge tech that is going to add a huge extra cost to the machine - and making it a BTO option would probably cost Apple more because of having to make/stock two different types of each display panel...

 

[Ethosik]

And I'll say this again, who cares? Since when do we judge Apple's ability to implement a feature based on something Microsoft did? Who cares if the Window touch UI sucked? The Mac isn't a Windows machine. Another red herring. Every one of your arguments is a red herring.

You asked how it affected me, and I told you. And your response is "Who cares"? Well who cares if you want a touch screen or not? Again, if that is your attitude towards discussions maybe you should not be on forums? We are ALL discussing personal opinions here. And just a "Who cares" is not really helpful.

Also, "Who cares"? Apparently enough to cause Microsoft to drastically reverse course with Windows 8.1 and Windows 10. Start8 was actually purchased by a company I worked with at the time. Purchased for 500+ workstations. Every system admins I have talked to hated that even Windows Server 2012 was "touchified". So apparently a lot of people cared about it.

 

[Brother Cavil]

You asked how it affected me, and I told you. And your response is "Who cares"? Well who cares if you want a touch screen or not? Again, if that is your attitude towards discussions maybe you should not be on forums? We are ALL discussing personal opinions here. And just a "Who cares" is not really helpful.

Also, "Who cares"? Apparently enough to cause Microsoft to drastically reverse course with Windows 8.1 and Windows 10. Start8 was actually purchased by a company I worked with at the time. Purchased for 500+ workstations. Every system admins I have talked to hated that even Windows Server 2012 was "touchified". So apparently a lot of people cared about it.

This is an Apple forum, not a Windows forum. We're talking about macOS, not Windows. Again, since when do we judge Apple's ability to implement a feature based on Microsoft's crappy UI work? Seriously? Since when?

If Apple releases a touch-enabled macOS and it sucks, I'll be the first to agree with you that it was a bad idea, but we have no idea what they're doing or how it will work. We have no idea if adding touch will dramatically change the UI or if it'll be like them adding mouse support to iPadOS, which really didn't change iPadOS for those using touch.

Digging your heels in because Microsoft released a bad touch-enabled version of Windows 15 years ago doesn't make sense to me. If that's the best you can do, I suggest you calm down and see what happens before determining that the sky is falling.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

This is an Apple forum, not a Windows forum. We're talking about macOS, not Windows. Again, since when do we judge Apple's ability to implement a feature based on Microsoft's crappy UI work? Seriously? Since when?

If Apple releases a touch-enabled macOS and it sucks, I'll be the first to agree with you that it was a bad idea, but we have no idea what they're doing or how it will work. We have no idea if adding touch will dramatically change the UI or if it'll be like them adding mouse support to iPadOS, which really didn't change iPadOS for those using touch.

Digging your heels in because Microsoft released a bad touch-enabled version of Windows 15 years ago doesn't make sense to me. If that's the best you can do, I suggest you calm down and see what happens before determining that the sky is falling.

For the record, Mark Gurman has said that there will be no interface changes for people exclusively using the keyboard and trackpad.
The interface will only morph specifically after you touch the screen, very dynamic island like.
Given that this MacBook Pro is rumored to also gain the dynamic island, it makes sense.
Regular macOS when you are using the keyboard and trackpad, but when you reach up to tap something it expands to be bigger and more touch friendly just like a Dynamic Island activity. And when you are done using the touchscreen, it shrinks back down to normal size. Probably all of this accompanied with very Apple like fluid expansion and retraction animations.

 

[Brother Cavil]

For the record, Mark Gurman has said that there will be no interface changes for people exclusively using the keyboard and trackpad.
The interface will only morph specifically after you touch the screen, very dynamic island like.
Given that this MacBook Pro is rumored to also gain the dynamic island, it makes sense.
Regular macOS when you are using the keyboard and trackpad, but when you reach up to tap something it expands to be bigger and more touch friendly just like a Dynamic Island activity. And when you are done using the touchscreen, it shrinks back down to normal size. Probably all of this accompanied with very Apple like fluid expansion and retraction animations.

I've read that as well and it makes perfect sense. Apple can add touch controls to macOS without changing the current UI and that's what I expect them to do. And let's be honest. The only reason Apple resisted adding touch to macOS and Jobs poo-pooed it so vocally was because they wanted to sell more devices. If you wanted a touch UI, you had to buy an iPad too.

Adding touch to macOS was never a bad idea, nor was it ever an idea that would result in a poor user experience. The whole "gorilla arm" thing was utterly ridiculous. Countless people use iPads on stands every day with keyboards, yet no concern about "gorilla arm" there.

 

[TwoPlus]

That was purposefully built hardware with added complexity, that's why it got cancelled. And it did replace something, the function keys row which many people missed.
This is just ordering from the supplier a display that has a touch layer like probably 70% of displays built nowadays. Just adds, removes nothing.

So now if I point to something on my screen, I gotta worry about moving the cursor or whatever? No thanks. You’re right that it does add something—annoyance.

 

[Ethosik]

This is an Apple forum, not a Windows forum. We're talking about macOS, not Windows. Again, since when do we judge Apple's ability to implement a feature based on Microsoft's crappy UI work? Seriously? Since when?

If Apple releases a touch-enabled macOS and it sucks, I'll be the first to agree with you that it was a bad idea, but we have no idea what they're doing or how it will work. We have no idea if adding touch will dramatically change the UI or if it'll be like them adding mouse support to iPadOS, which really didn't change iPadOS for those using touch.

Digging your heels in because Microsoft released a bad touch-enabled version of Windows 15 years ago doesn't make sense to me. If that's the best you can do, I suggest you calm down and see what happens before determining that the sky is falling.

Because it has happened before? Yes this is an Apple forum but we can use history to gauge what works and what does not work. If Apple starts throwing AI in everything we can very well compare it to how Windows is handling with Copilot in literally every corner of Windows. Windows is the biggest competitor to Mac. Comparisons are valid.

Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. So you are literally saying we CANNOT do ANY comparison AT .... ALL to Windows just because it's an Apple focus forum? That does not make sense. Comparisons are made all the time with competitors. People compare iPhones to Android devices all the time.

And I bring up this comparison because Windows STILL hasn't gotten mixed UI right in the last 15 years. Windows 8 was the best for touch, but horrible for desktop / server maintenance. Windows 10 and 11 are worse for touch.