Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
This is what happens when companies that don't understand a technology decide to use the technology they don't understand.

First we have problems with security (my Jeep Renegade is an example). Second we have problems with accessibility. This consortium is an example. They think that what I want when buying a car is another device to take care of, that exists outside the ecosystem of the devices I have.

They operate under the idea that, "choice is always better." Well, choice is good. If I can choose to use my iPhone with their system, okay, great, no complaints.

The problem I have is when the OS is "Open Source" meaning anyone can develop for it instead of any device can connect through it. I don't WANT to use Spotify, I already have a music app and don't want to spend money on another damn subscription. I don't WANT to use another GPS app, I already know how to use mine...

The apps I have are the same across my iPhone, iPad, and Mac. That's great you want to build an Open Source OS, but I don't NEED an Open Source OS, I NEED CarPlay.

Toyota's assertion that they don't use CarPlay because safety, is asinine. "We aren't going to give you the ability to use your device without having to look at it because it's more safe that way..."

Before anyone goes "fanboi" on me.... The same can be said of Android and Windows.

I don't WANT to deal with ANOTHER OS. This is why I work in a single ecosystem. Give me complete access to my single ecosystem. Period.

Demanding consumers buy the best in class for each item they purchase is the way things worked ten years ago. I buy the devices that get the job done inside the ecosystem I use. I've bought a system, not a group of devices I figure out how to kludge together into a system.

For now, I'm with Apple. The quality has dropped as of late, and the only thing preventing me from being an Android user is that I don't want my data to be a commodity. If I thought I could trust google with my data, I may jump ship. Windows? Their still in the "Win95" of the mobile market. That and they are the targets of most exploits.

Welcome to 2017. It's about "system" now, not just device.
I agree with all of this, except for the fact that (as I read the report) these Apple, Android, and this new open-source OS, systems are not mutually exclusive. In other words, Ford and colleagues see the value (finally!) in upgrading their ICE game, but will still offer consumers the choice to use whichever system they prefer.

"Hey, guys, our new system is totally revamped, and we invite you to try it! But, if you still want to use your device's system, grand! You have that option."

It seems that while these automakers could simplify their lives by just licensing the various existing Apple & Android, systems, they must have a 'default' in-car system that works with any device, in order to accommodate any potential consumer.

Just my $0.02.
[doublepost=1483545195][/doublepost]
Really? Most people I know don't drive their cars until they disintegrate beneath their butts. I like to change every four years or so, when a car changes from an asset into a liability.
Agreed. I like to stay within the maintenance period. I see my monthly car payment less as 'debt', and more as 'car rent', which I'm happy to pay.
 
...and has thus lost my business, after 20 years of patronage.

That's BS - i just bought a new prius prime and no way did apple play or google maps have an impact on my decision.

It's a fantastic car and if youre going to just not buy a car because of that you truly don't care for cars.
 
standards.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4jasontv
Really? Most people I know don't drive their cars until they disintegrate beneath their butts. I like to change every four years or so, when a car changes from an asset into a liability.
Apologies everyone for going off topic. What do you mean when you say "changes from an asset to a liability"? If you're changing every 4 years or so, I hope to Jeebus you're leasing or buying used. Vehicles are a depreciating asset (liability), especially in the 1st 3 years of ownership.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4jasontv
Really? Most people I know don't drive their cars until they disintegrate beneath their butts. I like to change every four years or so, when a car changes from an asset into a liability.

Wow, you must live in a crazy destructive place. I live in the Rocky Mts and after four years I would get new tires. Then again I don't consider my vehicles to be assets, but rather tools.
 
That's BS - i just bought a new prius prime and no way did apple play or google maps have an impact on my decision.

It's a fantastic car and if youre going to just not buy a car because of that you truly don't care for cars.

Well - I'd argue that if you bought a Prius, you truly don't care for cars.
 
  • Like
Reactions: magicschoolbus
It seems that while these automakers could simplify their lives by just licensing the various existing Apple & Android, systems, they must have a 'default' in-car system that works with any device, in order to accommodate any potential consumer.
The existing CP and AA are nothing more than app overlays. I think the industry is fine with it since it really doesn't affect them in any appreciable way. They don't want to give up the dash. Then they're beholden to Apple and Google's for updates. If an update breaks something? Right now, a malfunctioning CP or AA can be remedied by simply unplugging the phone. An integrated malfunction... I don't even want to speculate how that could interfere with the cars operation.

Let's keep CP and AA as the overlays they are and let the industry do their own thing. We all win that way. We can get the car we want, apply the overlay of our choice, and the auto industry can do their own thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: djlythium
Your post demonstrates a lack of understanding of the subject matter. Auto makers don't care about CarPlay or Android Auto. CP and AA are nothing but glorified app overlays completely dependent on the phone to operate.

It appears you're right. In essence you are streaming h.264 from the iOS device and receiving touch input from the screen. It's a thin client, not a complete OS like I was led to believe.

As long as they continue to operate that way CP and AA are only an added sales opportunity to upgrade a trim package

And that's fine. I have no problem being allowed to select what system I want in my car. Apple, Google, "Open Source," etc... I even stated that.

They (car manufacturers) are worried about Google and Apple designing full infotainment systems and influencing their sales based on a potential customer's choice of phone. Google has already started down that road and I don't doubt Apple isn't thinking along the same lines.

So what? A car is a rolling box with a minimum safety requirement meant to move people and cargo...
What you have pointed out is car companies REAL motivation. Profit... The bottom line. This has NOTHING to do with what is good for the customer and EVERYTHING to do with what is good for the auto manufacturers profit.

With their bs secrecy crap, it's hard to tell how far Apple has come. Google on the other hand is doing exactly what is scaring the bejeebus out of auto makers. Google is getting into the dash instead of borrowing the screen.

http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/05/googles-concept-maserati-has-android-built-right-into-the-car/

http://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/01...er-will-show-off-android-as-a-car-os-concept/

^^This is what they're worrying about. Not really sure what you're worried about to be honest. You don't have to worry about another OS.

BS secrecy crap? Uhm, no. It's h.264 and touch screen responses... Where's the secrecy?

Again, CP and AA are overlays, apps from your phone borrowing your car's screen. The underlying OS of the infotainment center has nothing to do with either. To further illustrate that point. New Honda's offer Car Play integration. Yay! The underlying OS on the infotainment system? Android. Other companies have their own proprietary OS (a lot of them QNX) and they still work with Car Play. So you have nothing to worry about. You won't have to deal with another OS.

Actually I will have to deal with another OS and here's why. If the "Open Source" "dicatates" something and the manufacturer (Apple, Google) have a better tech... who wins that battle?

Thanks for pointing out that CarPlay is not a complete OS itself. Now that I understand it better I wonder why companies like Fiat don't make QNX compatible with it? Based on the tech it could even be made compatible in an update...

I wonder why that is?

I also wonder why they are more worried about "Open Source" connectivity instead of making sure that I can select a wireless telecom provider. My Renegade had one option... Sprint.

If they are working to solve that with the initiative here... Then I have literally nothing to complain about. Which would be fantastic.
 
To borrow a phrase, Toyota's EnTune is a "bag of hurt". Having used this system in my wife's Highlander and a friend's 4Runner, there is not much positive that can be said. Of course I've had issues with most factory installed systems; seems like car companies should stick to building cars instead of also trying to design audio/navigation/entertainment systems.
 
Wow, you must live in a crazy destructive place. I live in the Rocky Mts and after four years I would get new tires. Then again I don't consider my vehicles to be assets, but rather tools.

Wow, you must not be driving much ;)
In four years I typically go through three sets of tyres.
[doublepost=1483549561][/doublepost]
Apologies everyone for going off topic. What do you mean when you say "changes from an asset to a liability"? If you're changing every 4 years or so, I hope to Jeebus you're leasing or buying used. Vehicles are a depreciating asset (liability), especially in the 1st 3 years of ownership.

Yes, but after 4 years (give or take) the expensive services and repairs start, and the warranty ends (depending on brand/model).
 
And that's fine. I have no problem being allowed to select what system I want in my car. Apple, Google, "Open Source," etc... I even stated that.
You're still a little confused. CP and AA aren't analogous to an "Open Source" OS. CP and AA are 3rd party options that have nothing to do with the car's operation. The OSS (in memory of Will Bill Donovan:)) would monitor and in some cases control some of the car's functions. OSS integral to car. CP and AA overlays to infotainment.


So what? A car is a rolling box with a minimum safety requirement meant to move people and cargo...
What you have pointed out is car companies REAL motivation. Profit... The bottom line. This has NOTHING to do with what is good for the customer and EVERYTHING to do with what is good for the auto manufacturers profit.
Rolling box? I'm an auto enthusiast so, yeah... we'll agree to disagree there. Of course profit is a motivator. It is for every company. It's not a dirty word or ignoble goal. We're on an Apple-centric website. The poster child for profit. All caps aside, you're wrong. Yep, shared R&D and manufacturing benefits the auto makers profits. It also allows for a wider range of ideas to be explored by a larger group. Again, this isn't about the infotainment. It's about controlling the car's operation. Better ideas, safer implementations, etc. So it does benefit the consumers.


BS secrecy crap? Uhm, no. It's h.264 and touch screen responses... Where's the secrecy?
Secrecy about their car project, not Car Play. Building a car? Creating a car OS? That's the secrecy I'm referencing. Car Play is basically an app. No need for secrecy there.



Actually I will have to deal with another OS and here's why. If the "Open Source" "dicatates" something and the manufacturer (Apple, Google) have a better tech... who wins that battle?
Actually you don't and here's why. The car's OS performs a different job. CP and AA do something different. If you're using CP, it's not as if the system is picking and choosing between the car's OS and CP functionality.

Thanks for pointing out that CarPlay is not a complete OS itself. Now that I understand it better I wonder why companies like Fiat don't make QNX compatible with it? Based on the tech it could even be made compatible in an update...

I wonder why that is?
I don't understand what you're saying here. QNX is compatible with CarPlay. Heck Android is compatible with CarPlay. Honda's underlying OS is based on Android. I think you're still viewing the car's OS and CP/AA as if the relationship is adversarial. They're not.

I also wonder why they are more worried about "Open Source" connectivity instead of making sure that I can select a wireless telecom provider. My Renegade had one option... Sprint.
That's a completely different and unrelated argument. Simple answer: Sprint paid for exclusivity. Like Apple paid for exclusivity with Taylor Swift, Drake, Frank Ocean, etc. To tie back to an earlier point: profit.

If they are working to solve that with the initiative here... Then I have literally nothing to complain about. Which would be fantastic.
You literally have nothing to complain about. :)
 
Really? Most people I know don't drive their cars until they disintegrate beneath their butts. I like to change every four years or so, when a car changes from an asset into a liability.
I drive until it disintegrates beneath my butt... or once it truly becomes to much of a liability. But with a Toyota.. thats like..10-15 years.
 
Wow, you must not be driving much ;)
In four years I typically go through three sets of tyres.
[doublepost=1483549561][/doublepost]

Yes, but after 4 years (give or take) the expensive services and repairs start, and the warranty ends (depending on brand/model).

I'm not going to pretend I know what living in Sydney is like, but that seems excessive. Are you dating someone in Newcastle? That's 170 miles a day, 7 days a week 365 days a year. You're clearly an exception because most people don't drive that much. That's about 4 to 6 times the average driver.

I get that Australian prices are higher than US, but when the warranties end but for a normal driver the markup on a new car is far more than general maintenance. The average 20 year old car only costs about $2200 USD a year in maintenance. At half that, a 10 year old car is about $1300 on average. Even a high end BMW, which is traditionally the most expensive isn't going to average more than $1800 a year in repairs when bought brand new. Toyota are among the cheapest. A Prius is about $400 a year. Heck an Impreza less than double that, and that's here in the States.

What are you driving so much that it's cheaper to replace than maintain, and how are you racking up so many miles in a city?
 
The existing CP and AA are nothing more than app overlays. I think the industry is fine with it since it really doesn't affect them in any appreciable way. They don't want to give up the dash. Then they're beholden to Apple and Google's for updates. If an update breaks something? Right now, a malfunctioning CP or AA can be remedied by simply unplugging the phone. An integrated malfunction... I don't even want to speculate how that could interfere with the cars operation.

Let's keep CP and AA as the overlays they are and let the industry do their own thing. We all win that way. We can get the car we want, apply the overlay of our choice, and the auto industry can do their own thing.
Yea, hey, whatever works. As long as it's less frustrating for the consumer, I'm all for it.
 
You're still a little confused. CP and AA aren't analogous to an "Open Source" OS. CP and AA are 3rd party options that have nothing to do with the car's operation. The OSS (in memory of Will Bill Donovan:)) would monitor and in some cases control some of the car's functions. OSS integral to car. CP and AA overlays to infotainment.



Rolling box? I'm an auto enthusiast so, yeah... we'll agree to disagree there. Of course profit is a motivator. It is for every company. It's not a dirty word or ignoble goal. We're on an Apple-centric website. The poster child for profit. All caps aside, you're wrong. Yep, shared R&D and manufacturing benefits the auto makers profits. It also allows for a wider range of ideas to be explored by a larger group. Again, this isn't about the infotainment. It's about controlling the car's operation. Better ideas, safer implementations, etc. So it does benefit the consumers.



Secrecy about their car project, not Car Play. Building a car? Creating a car OS? That's the secrecy I'm referencing. Car Play is basically an app. No need for secrecy there.




Actually you don't and here's why. The car's OS performs a different job. CP and AA do something different. If you're using CP, it's not as if the system is picking and choosing between the car's OS and CP functionality.


I don't understand what you're saying here. QNX is compatible with CarPlay. Heck Android is compatible with CarPlay. Honda's underlying OS is based on Android. I think you're still viewing the car's OS and CP/AA as if the relationship is adversarial. They're not.

That's a completely different and unrelated argument. Simple answer: Sprint paid for exclusivity. Like Apple paid for exclusivity with Taylor Swift, Drake, Frank Ocean, etc. To tie back to an earlier point: profit.


You literally have nothing to complain about. :)

You make really valid points. Important points. I don't think you missed it, but you didn't really address the issue that people like me have been making: I don't trust that manufacture. I don't care what the cars OS is called. I care about the UI. Because when I drive a car to drive a car I typically don't use any features that CP or AA offer. Unless Taylor Swift is in the car with me I only want to hear the engine. I want to see the information that matters to driving style I have decided on. Most of that information is on the dash, but there are some things (g-forces, break temps, etc.) that can add to that.

When I am out shopping, however, I want easy access to traffic updates, podcasts, and weather alerts. I don't care how much effort went into designing the cars OS. I'm not going to set up apps in the car. I'm going to do it on my phone while I am waiting for that cashier to finish with the customer in front of me. I just want it to work when I sit down. That means I expect the UI to be based off my phones OS because I already know how to use my phone, and I already did the work. I expect it to use the apps I installed, not the ones that were approved for my car. I expect it to be responsive. I expect to never need to do software updates on it or any sort of management. Why?
1. I already manage my phone.
2a. Car manufacturers are terrible at releasing updates.
2b. When they do release updates they typically require dealer intervention.
2c. Dealers are told not to do updates unless the customer complains about a feature that the update fixes.

[rant] When my wife gets in the driver seat I expect it to show her settings. I want her to be able to start the car from inside the house with her phone so that seats are fit to her. Likewise, mine when I start it. Even if she has Android and I have iOS. I want to know if the car needs maintenance even if someone else is driving. When my kids start driving I want to know speed, and GPS, and how hard they hit the breaks. I want their phones to decide how information is presented, and I want control over it remotely. [/rant]

I realize I have high expectations, but I can't see any way for me to get what I want without AA or CP. Maybe an Open Source OS will work on both android and iOS, but it's going to require, at the very least an app. Even settings like remote start and maintenance cues rely on crappy integrated services like OnStar, and that means a crappy and insecure OnStar app. Just because I chose a Chevy or a BMW doesn't mean I should be tied to their remote service. To provide this accessibility require deep access to the cars electronics. It's going to have to go through Android or iOS at some point so it might as well be integrated.

I don't have anything to complain about now because I can for the most part work with what the manufacturer gave me. It's not optimal, but it functions. However, some people can't deal with it. The next car I buy will probably trickle down to the kids, and I know that CP and AA can add many of my requested features after the sale. I've dealt with iDrive and Onstar. I lose features that have been phased out without ever getting new ones added. (And that is ignoring the stupid UI design decisions such as adding a mi/km toggle on the main screen between the tire pressure and battery indicators.)

Why don't I care about the cars OS? I don't want the manufacturer to have control over it because they don't maintain it. Their profit is based on me replacing the car. My preferred way of listening to music might change next year. Maybe due to royalties (thanks Taylor), or the app gets bought out or goes under, or my listening habits change, or someone else makes a new killer feature, or another driver might take it over. It doesn't matter. The car will be in service for 10 to 20 years, and I expect the OS to receive monthly updates and the apps weekly.

I think your point was that an open source OS would allow Android, iOS, and a future mobile OS to integrate with it even better than how they currently do. And that's a valid hope based on the information provided. But it's not valid based on prior experience with these companies. Because I don't believe they will maintain the OS for 20 years. If OS isn't entirely managed by my far more disposable glassy rectangle than there is a greater risk it could become obsolete before the products life ends. I don't care if you spend $20,000 or $100,000 on your car. It isn't an acceptable outcome when the problem should have been avoided.
 
Last edited:
I am planning to buy a new vehicle in early 2018 and CarPlay will be a must for me when making that purchase. I imagine I am not the only one that has that criteria. Its a shame that Toyota won't even get considered. They are announcing their new 2018 Camry next week and I bet it will be a nice vehicle but no CarPlay, no thanks.
 
Uh, Jason... bruh... ahh, yeah. I got nuthin'. But I will try.

You make really valid points. Important points. I don't think you missed it, but you didn't really address the issue that people like me have been making: I don't trust that manufacturer. I don't care what the cars OS is called. I care about the UI. Because when I drive a car to drive a car I typically don't use any features that CP or AA offer. Unless Taylor Swift is in the car with me I only want to hear the engine. I want to see the information that matters to driving style I have decided on. Most of that information is on the dash, but there are some things (g-forces, break temps, etc.) that can add to that.
There are tons of sportscars that have track day telemetry. I'm not sure what your concern is here. That telemetry is largely unnecessary on commuter cars. It's not practical and you're not going to see it beyond a select group of vehicles.

When I am out shopping, however, I want easy access to traffic updates, podcasts, and weather alerts. I don't care how much effort went into designing the cars OS. I'm not going to set up apps in the car. I'm going to do it on my phone while I am waiting for that cashier to finish with the customer in front of me. I just want it to work when I sit down. That means I expect the UI to be based off my phones OS because I already know how to use my phone, and I already did the work. I expect it to use the apps I installed, not the ones that were approved for my car. I expect it to be responsive. I expect to never need to do software updates on it or any sort of management. Why?
1. I already manage my phone.
2a. Car manufacturers are terrible at releasing updates.
2b. When they do release updates they typically require dealer intervention.
2c. Dealers are told not to do updates unless the customer complains about a feature that the update fixes.

I'm sorry but there's no realism here. Your expectation is a car manufacturer builds a billion dollar capital investment around your choice phone. What if your phone manufacturer changes it's UI to something you don't like?

[rant] When my wife gets in the driver seat I expect it to show her settings. I want her to be able to start the car from inside the house with her phone so that seats are fit to her. Likewise, mine when I start it. Even if she has Android and I have iOS. I want to know if the car needs maintenance even if someone else is driving. When my kids start driving I want to know speed, and GPS, and how hard they hit the breaks. I want their phones to decide how information is presented, and I want control over it remotely. [/rant]
All of the things you're asking for are currently available and have been for some time.

I realize I have high expectations, but I can't see any way for me to get what I want without AA or CP. Maybe an Open Source OS will work on both android and iOS, but it's going to require, at the very least an app. Even settings like remote start and maintenance cues rely on crappy integrated services like OnStar, and that means a crappy and insecure OnStar app. Just because I chose a Chevy or a BMW doesn't mean I should be tied to their remote service. To provide this accessibility require deep access to the cars electronics. It's going to have to go through Android or iOS at some point so it might as well be integrated.

I could write a novel on all the things that could go wrong here. Suffice it to say, this is not a good idea.

Why don't I care about the cars OS? I don't want the manufacturer to have control over it because they don't maintain it. Their profit is based on me replacing the car. My preferred way of listening to music might change next year. Maybe due to royalties (thanks Taylor), or the app gets bought out or goes under, or my listening habits change, or someone else makes a new killer feature, or another driver might take it over. It doesn't matter. The car will be in service for 10 to 20 years, and I expect the OS to receive monthly updates and the apps weekly.

See this makes me think you're pulling my leg. Why would a car need monthly updates? Why would an app need weekly updates? And for 10-20 years?!?! Come on man, this ain't Win XP we're talking about.:) At some point you have to see this goes beyond high expectations and into the area of, of WTF.

I think your point was that an open source OS would allow Android, iOS, and a future mobile OS to integrate with it even better than how they currently do. And that's a valid hope based on the information provided. But it's not valid based on prior experience with these companies. Because I don't believe they will maintain the OS for 20 years. If OS isn't entirely managed by my far more disposable glassy rectangle than there is a greater risk it could become obsolete before the products life ends. I don't care if you spend $20,000 or $100,000 on your car. It isn't an acceptable outcome when the problem should have been avoided.
I don't believe they will update the OS for 20 years either. No one does. No one will. Not even the manufacturer of your disposable glassy rectangle.

Please don't think I'm being dismissive of your desires. I'm not. But what you wrote is so far outside of reality and reasonableness, that it's hard to engage rationally. Cars are primarily built for the masses. They're people movers. What you're asking for is some type of impractical fantasy vehicle that wouldn't be built by anyone. But hey, we want what we want.
 
Uh, Jason... bruh... ahh, yeah. I got nuthin'. But I will try.

There are tons of sportscars that have track day telemetry. I'm not sure what your concern is here. That telemetry is largely unnecessary on commuter cars. It's not practical and you're not going to see it beyond a select group of vehicles.

That's a weird response. There are a lot of commuter cars that can also be track cars. And the cost to add some of those features is not very much, and even those costs can be reduced. Will everyone use them? No of course not, but the option to add them shouldn't be a big deal. My point though was that one person might use their car in more than one way. I have a track near my house that you can take any car to. Just because I don't race competitively doesn't mean I don't have an inner child who likes speed.

I'm sorry but there's no realism here. Your expectation is a car manufacturer builds a billion dollar capital investment around your choice phone
.

They don't have to because Apple and Google already did that for them. In fact, the OP suggests that car manufacturers plan to spend money to avoid using technology that is built around phones. Which is weird because most people already look to their phones app store for most things they want to use in the car. OnStar wants $35 a month for navigation. That is stupid expensive. I would never pay that much because
1. It sucks. It takes nearly 5 minutes to update directions if you make a wrong turn.
2. Even in 2003 I had TeleNav for $10 a month. Now I have a choice of navigation software free with my phone os of choice.

I get that OnStar is owned by GM, but if Apple can't lock book and music sales on their platform, why can Chevy force their software?

What if your phone manufacturer changes it's UI to something you don't like?

Then I deal, just like when it happens to my phone. At least it has security and feature updates. Maybe you don't know, or maybe you forgot, but OnStar took 5 years to fix a hole that allowed people the ability to remotely activate your car. Doesn't matter if it was "hard". It should have been identified and fixed sooner. Apple, Google, and Microsoft are dragged over the coals for security holes that are far less of big deal than that. But then again, we expect them to update their software. We don't expect GM to do it.

All of the things you're asking for are currently available and have been for some time.

Please tell me you have used them, so I don't have to explain how bad they suck.

I could write a novel on all the things that could go wrong here. Suffice it to say, this is not a good idea.

Why? It would be more secure to it integrated into the OS because then it can use some of the proprietary chip security that makes NFC payments more secure.

See this makes me think you're pulling my leg. Why would a car need monthly updates?

Because then new features could be added without resigning another lease? Before you say car manufacturers want to sell new cars, they don't want us to get new features to cars we already own, keep in mind:
1. Tesla already allows you to upgrade your car to the new model. People pay the $5000 to $9000 to get improved performance and fuel efficiency.
2. This sort of update would be very unlikely to require new hardware.
3. If the OEM software is actually valuable they could charge people for it, and people would pay to get it.

Why would an app need weekly updates?

Because 3rd party apps change more often then first party? I have about 3 updates a day on my phone. I would like to expect the same level of proficiency with CP and AA apps.

And for 10-20 years
?!?! Come on man, this ain't Win XP we're talking about.:) At some point you have to see this goes beyond high expectations and into the area of, of WTF.

iOS has been around for almost 10 years already. With constant updates there shouldn't be any issues getting another 10 years out of the OS. Sure, it is possible that something could replace mobile phones, but why couldn't they still access the car display too? CP and AA don't really need a lot of hardware since the mobile devices do most of the heavy lifting. That's why the car OS doesn't need a lot of power.

I don't believe they will update the OS for 20 years either. No one does. No one will. Not even the manufacturer of your disposable glassy rectangle.

You don't think Apple expects to be in the mobile business for 20 years? You don't think Google sees a future for mobile browsing? Again, my current device doesn't need to make it 20 years, the dumb display that receives content from whatever I carry needs to. But you are right, many people won't keep their car for 20 years. They will want the improved display the new model car has. But more likely they will get a new car because they want to better performance, efficacy, and safety that it offers.

Please don't think I'm being dismissive of your desires. I'm not. But what you wrote is so far outside of reality and reasonableness, that it's hard to engage rationally.

I really don't see what's unreasonable. Car manufacturers haven't proven they are responsible enough to manage an OS. I'd rather someone else do it. Some that hasn't been trying to keep their device monopoly under the radar for the past decade. The fact that it took customer demands for AA and CP to get them to consider building an open source OS should make us evaluate how they handled auto computers so far.

Cars are primarily built for the masses.

The masses use primarily use Android and iOS.

They're people movers. What you're asking for is some type of impractical fantasy vehicle that wouldn't be built by anyone.

Until one manufacturer panics and adds it in a desperate attempt to sell new cars. Then everyone will start doing it.

But hey, we want what we want.

If autonomous vehicles become more mainstream, which looks more and more likely, the need for this sort of device will only increase. As it is now there is limited application support to audio, navigation, and car enthusiast apps. When people don't need to be involved in the act of driving any more cars will become more like mobile entertainment/workstations.
 
You mean Ford's own Livio 'open source' software, as opposed to Apple's CarPLay or Google's AndroidAuto? o_O
I question the sincerity of that initiative.

If it works with iOS and Android then it is immediately more consumer friendly than CarPlay or AndroidAuto.
 



Ford and Toyota have formed a four-automaker consortium to speed up the deployment of open source software for connected in-car systems, according to a report by Bloomberg on Wednesday.

The SmartDeviceLink Consortium, which includes Mazda, PSA Group, Fuji, and Suzuki, aims to prevent Apple and Google from controlling how drivers connect smartphones to their vehicles. Suppliers Elektrobit, Harma, Luxoft, QNX, and Xevo have also joined the organization, which is named after an open source version of Ford's AppLink connectivity interface, a system used in over 5 million vehicles globally.

CarPlay-Ford-800x533.jpg

The non-profit group's goal is to promote more choice in how drivers connect to in-car technologies like dashboard displays, steering wheel controls and voice recognition systems. By using an open source platform, the automakers hope to set a standard by which they and their suppliers can integrate smartphones with vehicles, and thereby attract developers who can then integrate the universal linking technology into their software.

Toyota has so far resisted including Apple's CarPlay and Google's Android Auto in its vehicles, arguing that doing so would diminish safety and security standards. Ford offers them on all its 2017 model vehicles, but remains supportive of an open-source software platform that all app developers can use as an alternative to Carplay and Android Auto.

The open source project will be managed by Livio, a software startup Ford acquired in 2013. Livio will work with early adopters to build the interfaces and infotainment systems for each vehicle environment.

Apple's own system, CarPlay, brings Maps, Phone, Messages, Music, Podcasts, and a number of third-party apps, such as Spotify, to a vehicle's dashboard. Apple announced CarPlay with several big-name partners already on board, like BMW, Ford, GM, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Nissan, and more.

Due to Apple's commitment to user privacy, CarPlay collects very little data from users and car manufacturers. According to information released by Porsche, Apple only collects information on whether a car is accelerating while CarPlay is in use. This is in stark contrast to Android Auto, which collects a lot more car data when in use.

Article Link: Toyota and Ford Create Automaker Group to Promote Open Source Smartphone Interfaces
[doublepost=1483821229][/doublepost]For me, SYNC3 does almost everything that I want, and it is ready for use far faster than CarPlay. I don't have to connect a cable, and more annoyingly, I don't have to start a CarPlay-enabled app on my iPhone before connecting.

With SYNC3, I simply say "Call So And So at home" and my call works. With CarPlay, given the same command, Siri replies, "Please select ..." and give a list of phones, which then requires me to say "Home" again. It's not a make or break feature, but how difficult is it so parse a voice command and understand the "at home" portion? SYNC3 can do it. Why can't Apple?

As I mentioned, if I don't have Pandora open, and I connect my phone (which is both annoying and should be unnecessary give that SYNC3 includes Wi-Fi in it's hardware), pressing the Pandora icon doesn't work. I have to unlock my phone and open the app. Super safe limitation there, Apple.

Did I mention the need to connect? Did I mention that sometimes I have to disconnect and reconnect? Yup, the required cable connection sucks both in terms of convenience and reliability.

But for me, the most important feature is timely traffic information. Here even Apple Maps beats Ford's traffic data. But do you know what it doesn't beat? Google maps. And do you know what smokes all three? Waze. But Apple refuses to let another navigation app into the walled garden.

So for me, the killer feature that I hope this consortium can bring to drivers is the Waze application. If Ford and Waze can deliver the Waze app, even if it requires being connected to a cable, then I'll just disable CarPlay. For those rare times when I need to interact with Siri (so it can replay with the immeasurably useful, "Would you like me to search the web for ...?"), I have Siri Eyes Free.

This consortium should be seen as the best hope any of us will have of being able to use Waze on our car's own touchscreen.
 
Really? Most people I know don't drive their cars until they disintegrate beneath their butts. I like to change every four years or so, when a car changes from an asset into a liability.

Cars don't change from an asset to a liability in 4 years. First of all, cars are never an asset, unless you procure them for much less than their market value. If you buy a new car at or near its MSRP you have an expense from day one. Because the car is not worth what you paid for it the minute you drive it off the lot. If you didn't pay cash for it you will eventually (ostensibly) own a car that is worth more than what you owe on it. But you will still have paid more for it than what it is worth.

The true "value" of a car is the use you get out of it. And the only way you get the most value from a car is to pay less per mile to drive it. Buying (or leasing) a car every four years is never, ever going to be the way to get the most value from it. In fact, driving a car until it "disintegrates beneath your butt" is really the only way to maximize the value of any car you own.

Having said that, everyone is going to have a different idea of what they want out of a car. If you want the relatively hassle free experience of driving a car for which you pay little to nothing for maintenance and repairs then replacing your car every few years might be for you. But that car is going to be a "liability" from the day you bring it home until the day you sell it or turn it in. And the next one you get will be the same.

If you want to maximize the value of any car you drive, however you will need to find a solid, used, late model car and drive it for many years, until it becomes unreliable, and more expensive to repair than to replace. And except in very few, specialized situations that will never, ever be "every four years or so."
 
Your post demonstrates a lack of understanding of the subject matter. Auto makers don't care about CarPlay or Android Auto. CP and AA are nothing but glorified app overlays completely dependent on the phone to operate. As long as they continue to operate that way CP and AA are only an added sales opportunity to upgrade a trim package They (car manufacturers) are worried about Google and Apple designing full infotainment systems and influencing their sales based on a potential customer's choice of phone. Google has already started down that road and I don't doubt Apple isn't thinking along the same lines. With their bs secrecy crap, it's hard to tell how far Apple has come. Google on the other hand is doing exactly what is scaring the bejeebus out of auto makers. Google is getting into the dash instead of borrowing the screen.

http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/05/googles-concept-maserati-has-android-built-right-into-the-car/

http://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/01...er-will-show-off-android-as-a-car-os-concept/

^^This is what they're worrying about. Not really sure what you're worried about to be honest. You don't have to worry about another OS. Again, CP and AA are overlays, apps from your phone borrowing your car's screen. The underlying OS of the infotainment center has nothing to do with either. To further illustrate that point. New Honda's offer Car Play integration. Yay! The underlying OS on the infotainment system? Android. Other companies have their own proprietary OS (a lot of them QNX) and they still work with Car Play. So you have nothing to worry about. You won't have to deal with another OS.

Actually I think that is what is going to happen. These automakers from the sound of it, want an open source system that they control and will likely control via a subscription service. Want to use iOS pay "X" dollars. Same for Android etc. Or you can use our OS, which does everything the other guys do and well it only costs "Y" dollars. You can still make phone calls and play music, but these other services are better than what you have.

After reading through this, that is what it sounds like to me. I hope I am wrong and it doesn't come to that. If by open they truly mean open, meaning anything and anyone can connect, we don't care. Than I am all for it. I can't quite put my finger on it but it seems like we have gone down this route before in other industry's of the tech world.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.