Traffic Laws

[MatthewLTL]

Admittedly I haven't looked at the handbook for a couple years, so would you kindly just post the section? I've read all the Minnesota vehicle codes I can find and none prohibit it. I believe, while meaning well, you're just mistaken. If I'm wrong I'd like to know by seeing the section.

I'm sorry I still don't see it.
https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/dvs/forms-documents/Documents/Minnesota_Drivers_Manual.pdf

it does happen i was correct on one law. It is illegal to cross the stop line at a controlled intersection and stop waiting to make a left turn as stated here: Intersection Gridlock – (M.S. 169.15)
Prohibits a driver of a vehicle from entering an intersection controlled
by a traffic-control signal until the driver is able to move the vehicle
immediately, continuously, and completely through the intersection
without impeding or blocking the subsequent movement of cross traffic.
(Effective 1/1/2011)

Solid white lines near intersections indicate it is illegal to pass within 100 feet of the intersection

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Ever heard of a "Michigan Left Turn" ?

seems complicated

 

[Gutwrench]

Matthew - anti-gridlock laws are excellent. But just to be clear, you can advance beyond the limit line and stage up to turn left as long as you can fully clear the intersection and not block cross traffic should the light cycle to red. A particular intersection near the Xcel Center is regularly gridlocked and it's frustrating. The trouble is it's difficult to enforce.

As for changing lanes within 100 feet of an intersection, in Minnesota, it's often more safe not to do so, but I can't find a statute prohibiting it. If you find one please pass it along.

 

[Gutwrench]

Solid white lines near intersections indicate it is illegal to pass within 100 feet of the intersection

Single solid white lines can be crossed, but crossing is discouraged. Double white lines cannot be crossed. (This is true for California and Minnesota.)

 

[MatthewLTL]

Matthew - anti-gridlock laws are excellent. But just to be clear, you can advance beyond the limit line and stage up to turn left as long as you can fully clear the intersection and not block cross traffic should the light cycle to red. A particular intersection near the Xcel Center is regularly gridlocked and it's frustrating. The trouble is it's difficult to enforce.

As for changing lanes within 100 feet of an intersection, in Minnesota, it's often more safe not to do so, but I can't find a statute prohibiting it. If you find one please pass it along.

i actually did find one just trying to figure out where the hell its at

 

[Gutwrench]

I'm wondering if this is the section you're thinking of?

169.18 DRIVING RULES.

§Subd. 5.Driving left of roadway center; exception. (a) No vehicle shall be driven to the left side of the center of the roadway in overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction unless such left side is clearly visible and is free of oncoming traffic for a sufficient distance ahead to permit such overtaking and passing to be completely made without interfering with the safe operation of any vehicle approaching from the opposite direction or any vehicle overtaken. In every event the overtaking vehicle must return to the right-hand side of the roadway before coming within 100 feet of any vehicle approaching from the opposite direction.
(b) Except on a one-way roadway, no vehicle shall, in overtaking and passing another vehicle or at any other time, be driven to the left half of the roadway under the following conditions:
(1) when approaching the crest of a grade or upon a curve in the highway where the driver's view along the highway is obstructed within a distance of 700 feet;
(2) when approaching within 100 feet of any underpass or tunnel, railroad grade crossing, intersection within a city, or intersection outside of a city if the presence of the intersection is marked by warning signs; or
(3) where official signs are in place prohibiting passing, or a distinctive centerline is marked, which distinctive line also so prohibits passing, as declared in the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices adopted by the commissioner.

https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=169.18

 

[MatthewLTL]

It does happen to be illegal to change lanes within 100 feet of an intersection in Wisconsin, Florida, South Carolina, Georgia and 200 feet from ether side of an intersetion in the state of Illinois. However from common research I have found out that MN Traffic Laws and Florida traffic laws are the exact same.

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I'm wondering if this is the section you're thinking of?

169.18 DRIVING RULES.



https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=169.18

that is the only section i can find that indicates anything, however it WAS in the statutes about being illegal to change lanes within 100 feet of an intersection that was the entire point in the soild line lane markngs, however for the life of me i cannot even find it, Check Florida laws, Minnesota and Florida laws are the same.

 

[Gutwrench]

Thanks Matt. I'm most eager to read the Minnesota section if you find it.

Minnesota law on roadway markings (single solid white, broken thick white, and double solid white) are very clear.

A pet peeve of mine are drivers who use an exit lane to pass by cutting across the gore point. They can legal merge back in (despite pissing me off) even when the broken white line turns solid (unless prohibited by signage) but once they meet the gore point it turns into a violation and I reserve the right to ram them.

 

[D.T.]

It does happen to be illegal to change lanes within 100 feet of an intersection in [...] Florida [...]

It isn't - the laws (section 316) regarding lane changing don't have any language about intersection proximity - this is kind of an urban myth. It's about the subjectivity of danger/reckless lane changing behavior and how an intersection can potentially compound that issue.

 

[MatthewLTL]

Matthew - anti-gridlock laws are excellent. But just to be clear, you can advance beyond the limit line and stage up to turn left as long as you can fully clear the intersection and not block cross traffic should the light cycle to red. A particular intersection near the Xcel Center is regularly gridlocked and it's frustrating. The trouble is it's difficult to enforce.

As for changing lanes within 100 feet of an intersection, in Minnesota, it's often more safe not to do so, but I can't find a statute prohibiting it. If you find one please pass it along.

where is the law that states you are allowed to do that?

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It isn't - the laws (section 316) regarding lane changing don't have any language about intersection proximity - this is kind of an urban myth. It's about the subjectivity of danger/reckless lane changing behavior and how an intersection can potentially compound that issue.

thats what the police and residents of those states state on a law-enforcement forum PLUS it specifically states in the Florida driver's hand book under Lane Markings that it is illegal to cross solid white lines, which since solid white lines are used in left and right turn lanes and 100 feet from crosswalks that wold mean it is infact, illegal to change lanes withing 100 feet of an intersecton or turn into a rite or left turn lane beyond the dashed enterence points

 

[Gutwrench]

where is the law that states you are allowed to do that?

Actually a section will need to be found that prohibits it. I assume you were relying on the same section you quoted in post 26.

169.15 IMPEDING TRAFFIC; INTERSECTION GRIDLOCK.
Subdivision 1.Impeding traffic; slow speed. No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law or except when the vehicle is temporarily unable to maintain a greater speed due to a combination of the weight of the vehicle and the grade of the highway.
Subd. 2.Intersection gridlock; stop or block traffic. (a) Except as provided in paragraph (b), a driver of a vehicle shall not enter an intersection controlled by a traffic-control signal until the driver is able to move the vehicle immediately, continuously, and completely through the intersection without impeding or blocking the subsequent movement of cross traffic.
(b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to movement of a vehicle made:
(1) at the direction of a city-authorized traffic-control agent or a peace officer;
(2) to facilitate passage of an authorized emergency vehicle with its emergency lights activated; or
(3) to make a turn, as permitted under section 169.19, that allows the vehicle to safely leave the intersection.
(c) A violation of this subdivision does not constitute grounds for suspension or revocation of the violator's driver's license.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=169.15

There is nothing prohibiting you from advancing from the limit line on a green and waiting for opposing traffic to clear in order to complete your turn. This section covers grid locking - the violation occurs when entering an intersection and unable to leave it before your light cycles to red so that you block/impede cross traffic.

thats what the police and residents of those states state on a law-enforcement forum PLUS it specifically states in the Florida driver's hand book under Lane Markings that it is illegal to cross solid white lines, which since solid white lines are used in left and right turn lanes and 100 feet from crosswalks that wold mean it is infact, illegal to change lanes withing 100 feet of an intersecton or turn into a rite or left turn lane beyond the dashed enterence points

I've already covered white road markings for Minnesota and California. I think 316 is the vehicle code section of Florida law. It has no baring on Minnesota rules of the road or our discussion. Maybe that question was for another member?

 

[MatthewLTL]

It's the same section you quoted in post 26.



https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=169.15

There is nothing prohibiting you from advancing from the limit line on a green and waiting for opposing traffic to clear in order to complete your turn. This section covers grid locking - the violation occurs when entering an intersection and unable to leave it before your light cycles to red so that you block/impede cross traffic.



I think 316 is the vehicle code section of Florida law. It has no baring on Minnesota rules of the road or our discussion. Maybe that question was for another member?

if you look at the section on turns listed on 169.19 it does not state anything about being alowed to ENTER the intersection and STOP and wait to make a left turn it states that while turning left you must turn into the leftmost lane or the lane designated in dual left turns,

Florida may have no bearing on MN law, however by studying both the Driver's Manual AND transpertation statutes in both states (after watching Florida dashcamming videos) the laws in MN and FL are completely identical and the same. anyways I have contacted the director of mnDOT and the cheif of Police with these questions and will quote the email replies when i get them.

 

[bruinsrme]

Oh the MBTA would find a way to screw that up very quickly

The way the DOT is they will increase the tolls on the pike to pay for the T. Just like they did to pay for the 128 expansion.

 

[Gutwrench]

Thanks Matt. As you are aware, Amercian laws are codified so we know that our behavior is a commission of any act, or an omission of any act, in which a law prohibits or requires.

So the gridlock section and the turning section you just posted do not need to tell drivers all the things that are permitted, they must tell a driver what they are required to do or what they are prohibited from doing.

I'll be most interested in reading the replies you receive. Would you also be so kind as to include your specific questions when you post them?

 

[MatthewLTL]

Thanks Matt. As you are aware, Amercian laws are codified so we know that our behavior is a commission of any act, or an omission of any act, in which a law prohibits or requires.

So the gridlock section and the turning section you just posted do not need to tell drivers all the things that are permitted, they must tell a driver what they are required to do or what they are prohibited from doing.

I'll be most interested in reading the replies you receive. Would you also be so kind as to include your specific questions when you post them?

Sure. I also asked them on the Officer.com "Ask a Cop" forums.

 

[D.T.]

thats what the police and residents of those states state on a law-enforcement forum PLUS it specifically states in the Florida driver's hand book under Lane Markings that it is illegal to cross solid white lines, which since solid white lines are used in left and right turn lanes and 100 feet from crosswalks that wold mean it is infact, illegal to change lanes withing 100 feet of an intersecton or turn into a rite or left turn lane beyond the dashed enterence points

Note I didn't clarify for other than Florida (which is why I edited your original post to remove the other states).

Here's an image using Google street view, from a local major intersection:

While there might be specific codes preventing lane changing, and some of those codes have supporting road markings, your basic assertion of "you can't change lanes within N feet of an intersection" is incorrect. See above photo that clearly illustrates allowable lane changing well within 100 feet of an intersection (you, in fact, wouldn't be able to reach the far left turn lanes _without_ immediately changing lanes within a few feet of the intersection).

 

[MatthewLTL]

Note I didn't clarify for other than Florida (which is why I edited your original post to remove the other states).

Here's an image using Google street view, from a local major intersection:

Image

While there might be specific codes preventing lane changing, and some of those codes have supporting road markings, your basic assertion of "you can't change lanes within N feet of an intersection" is incorrect. See above photo that clearly illustrates allowable lane changing well within 100 feet of an intersection (you, in fact, wouldn't be able to reach the far left turn lanes _without_ immediately changing lanes within a few feet of the intersection).

most places have a dashed line for you to enter turning lanes which most times are as far back as 300 feet from an intersection. "Last Seconders" or "Last Minute" lane changes to get into a turning lane are illegal in most cases