Transitioning away from Apple stuff

[casperes1996]

I don’t use iCloud for sharing anything, even photos. I just keep my personal documents and files. I suppose those are protected from any Apple use...

I'm no lawyer, but I can speak to the technical side of things; I am a computer science student having done extensive research on Apple's security techniques specifically.

If you do not use share functions on iCloud Drive, and your data is only in your 'private' iCloud Drive, the data is encrypted with a combination of your AppleID and device specific tokens (Generated when accepted through 2-factor authentication). Apple may technically own your data in a lawful sense to operate its service, but in the encrypted state, Apple cannot access the data themselves; Only the encrypted variant. The system is very much designed around the concept that "We can't be forced to give your data away, because we can't even see it ourselves". Now, I'm not saying it's perfect; Holes in the encryption algorithm could be found or the AppleID/Token combination used to encrypt your data could feasibly be weak enough that brute-force attacks could be feasible; But that's very unlikely with the salted key hashing performed and the use of long tokens.

Also, this is as of now kinda region specific. As you may have heard Chinese law requires that Apple uses a different strategy for data stored there; And if I recall correctly, Apple outsources iCloud in that region - I am not sure how the encryption scheme is handled there; If it is still encrypted the same way but just stored on outsourced servers (although even then the encryption would be slightly weaker, since Apple also uses server-side hardware encryption keys to; on top of data-encryption, enforce firmware locking) or if maybe Chinese law also has some clauses preventing that. - I believe there was also similar goings on in Russia.

 

[StralyanPithecus]

Thanks for the comments.
Mostly the technical part is known to me, since I’m a IT Manager, and I deal with cloud networks every day. I just wanted to be sure about the legal issues with my personal files, but after reading the privacy notice about iCloud at Apple’s website I understood that my data is protected from abuse by Apple.

 

[casperes1996]

Use your savings for a brand new $1799 iPhone BDSM Max this year. It'll last you 2 years.

Don't know what the BDSM bit was supposed to mean, but two years? How much do you abuse phones? iPhone 6 is still perfectly usable and awesome today and life spans get longer and longer

 

[Robnsn2015]

This is a Mac forum, so there will obviously be some pro-Mac bias. That being said, I think everyone here has offered really good advice.

Personally, I have grown disenchanted with the Mac. I don't think they are a high priority for Apple anymore. Plus, I have issues with the new MacBook Pros (soldiered-down parts, butterfly keyboard, touch bar). Therefore, my 2013 MacBook Pro is my last.

I guess it depends on what you need. Do you need any Mac-exclusive software? Do you need to use iMessage, Apple Pay, etc. on your Mac? Personally, I need Microsoft's ecosystem for my livelihood more than I need Mac's ecosystem. In addition, the Windows Subsystem for Linux has made Windows more Linux-like. And the PC makers themselves have really stepped up their game when it comes to the quality and variety of machines.

 

[bluespark]

For the most part, being multi-platform is liberating. It means you can buy the best product for you at any particular moment, regardless of who makes it. And if anything, operating in a multi-platform environment is becoming easier than it once was. It's not much of an issue to use a Windows computer and an iPhone, or an Android phone and a Mac, for example. For that reason, I don't suggest the "full transition" option unless you have very particular needs you didn't mention. Rather, just choose the devices you want (new or used) and then find apps/services that allow you to share as needed. You may venture away for a while (as I did during the Mac Performa era) and come back, or you may organically shift over time to a different manufacturer. No need to decide that in advance.

One exception that may not apply to you: If you're an Apple Watch user, you need to stick with iPhone, at least at this moment in time.

Also, you might get some helpful feedback if you post specific transition-related questions.

 

[RevTEG]

I put $10 a week into Apple Pay as a tech savings account. Many people spend more than that at a Starbucks. 52 weeks later I have $520. Since I don’t upgrade every year the amount increases. Then when I need to upgrade I simply sell my older product. Add the sell of the older product and my simple savings funds together and it’s not so hard to afford the new product. Many of us actually have more money than we think. We just may need to save over time instead of having it available all at once. I can resist one extra trip for coffee. Well most of the time.

 

[Nugget]

I put $10 a week into Apple Pay as a tech savings account. 52 weeks later I have $520

If you'd put that money into an online savings account instead, you'd have $525 today and be earning an extra buck each month in interest (assuming 2.2% APY). It's small, but it's free and it adds up. Over two years you end up with $1,062 instead of $1,040.

 

[RevTEG]

If you'd put that money into an online savings account instead, you'd have $525 today and be earning an extra buck each month in interest (assuming 2.2% APY). It's small, but it's free and it adds up. Over two years you end up with $1,062 instead of $1,040.

That's a great idea. Thanks for the tip. I'm always looking for ways to maximize my funds. I don't make a lot of money, because of my choice of "work". So finding ways to save and stretch it is always welcomed. In my personal experience even people with limited incomes still spend money on short-term items while thinking they can't afford other things. Putting back a little here and there adds up.

 

[sracer]

I spent many years living/working happily within Apple's famed "walled garden," but I'm starting to realize that I simply can't afford new Apple stuff going forward. I've made some moves out of Apple-Land via a cheap Chromebook and Android phone, both of which serve my purposes well (but perhaps not as enjoyably as the Mac OS experience). My 2014 Macbook Air needs a new battery (and may have already sustained a bit of battery-related internal damage -- let's hope not), while my 2013 Mini keeps chugging along for now. But these products won't last forever, so I'm clearly coming to a crossroads. Do I:

1. Go ahead and make a full transition into an open-ended, non-Apple environment?
2. Keep patching up the Mini and the Air as long as I can afford to do so, and continue to rely primarily on an Apple environment?
3. Buy used Apple products at affordable prices as needed and maintain relations between the Mac hardware/software and a larger non-Apple landscape?

Any opinions or anecdotes welcome.

I've been on a measured exit from Appleland for the past few years. I don't like the direction that the company is going in with their product lines and their products are offering less and less value for what I need. Spending more money for products that are more restrictive than their less expensive competition makes little financial sense to me so this was an easy decision.

My focus has been software first, hardware next. Although I heavily use productivity suites (iWork, MS Office, LibreOffice, Google Docs) my preference whenever I have a choice is iWork. Works great on my iPad Mini, 2018 iPad, MBA, iMac, and chromebooks.

The attached cost (Apple hardware) of using iWork will require me eventually to migrate over to another suite. That's not a problem as I'm comfortable with them all but I will miss iWork.

Good decision, IMO, to explore chromebooks and Android phones. Chromebooks are extremely flexible and can assist you in your exodus even if it doesn't end up with Chromebooks.

I have two Chromebooks (Acer Chromebook 14 - looks and feels like a Macbook Air, and a Google Pixelbook) They have allowed me to explore this option while still having access to all of the productivity suites I use.

I recommend avoiding 2-in-1 chromebooks. Android app support on chromebooks is adequate, but the quantity of quality tablet-optimized Android apps is very, very poor. The Pixel Pen for my Pixelbook sits in its case because there aren't any good apps to use the Pen.

Regarding your 2014 MBA, nearly a year ago I traded my 2014 11" MBA because the trade-in value was extra generous and it was starting to show its age. I thought I was done with Macbook Airs after that (because I'm not interested in the new 2018 MBAs) but then I recently ran across an excellent deal on Amazon for a brand new 2017 MBA w/i7 for $799. So that has pressed the "pause" button on migrating notebooks off of Apple.

If you like the "classic" MBA, there are still similar deals still around.

 

[bt22]

 

[hajime]

For computer -> Move to Windows laptop. No problem. Actually Windows 10 is very good these days.
For phone -> I still use my iPhone.

Don't know why I often have problem in using the 4G of my phone to allow the Windows laptop to connect to the internet.

 

[Robnsn2015]

For computer -> Move to Windows laptop. No problem. Actually Windows 10 is very good these days.
For phone -> I still use my iPhone.

Don't know why I often have problem in using the 4G of my phone to allow the Windows laptop to connect to the internet.

I'm on the same page: iPhone/iPad + Windows machine.

 

[hajime]

I'm on the same page: iPhone/iPad + Windows machine.

Do you have issue with tethering an iPhone to a Windows laptop?

 

[Robnsn2015]

Do you have issue with tethering an iPhone to a Windows laptop?

I tethered my work Dell Latitude to my iPhone for several days a couple of weeks ago. No problems here.

 

[smoking monkey]

sounds to me like the OP doesn't really need to be in the Apple Eco system. If that's the case, making the move away won't be as painful.

If the Apple Eco sys is fundamental to your workflow and provides a far better experience and workflow, I'd scrap a few dinners out or the like to pay the Apple Tax and stay in the walled garden.

 

[WrightBrain]

sounds to me like the OP doesn't really need to be in the Apple Eco system. If that's the case, making the move away won't be as painful.

If the Apple Eco sys is fundamental to your workflow and provides a far better experience and workflow, I'd scrap a few dinners out or the like to pay the Apple Tax and stay in the walled garden.

I think it’s becoming less of an issue to leave. Adobe went subscription only for creative cloud. You can install a copy on Windows and Mac under one license. You just can’t run them at the same time. Makes it easier to switch.

 

[GanChan]

I'm partly conditioned to old-school thinking because I spent my formative years in video and film production. Back in the day, that industry was totally Apple-centric as far as hardware and software. These days it doesn't matter as much, but i bet you'd still see video/film people instinctively turning to Macs first.

 

[casperes1996]

I'm partly conditioned to old-school thinking because I spent my formative years in video and film production. Back in the day, that industry was totally Apple-centric as far as hardware and software. These days it doesn't matter as much, but i bet you'd still see video/film people instinctively turning to Macs first.

Yes. And the ones of us who prefer Final Cut, definitely. DaVinci Resolve also often runs better on macOS. When Black Magic sets up training camps for Resolve they exclusively use iMac Pros these days. Premiere is more PC centric, and Avid is fairly cross-platform - I'd say the Avid way is typically Macs for individual editors and PC farms for pushing a lot of renders, since the traditional Mac Pro doesn't serve that market so well anymore. – This of course isn't strict and consistent for every production, but it's the typical way things are I'd say.

Now aside from being quite into video production, I study computer science and can say that in that field we tend to be on either macOS or Linux. There are of course Windows PCs and some development targets of course have a more heavily Windows focused group behind it, but for the majority of projects macOS and Linux rule the roost. macOS' Unix heritage makes it fit in neatly with open source infrastructure and projects and a lot of development workflows are centered around having access to a Unix shell. This is still possible via a Windows development platform, but to a certain extend, it'll be "faking it". And the web is also very much Unix-centric. Just look at URL paths for instance. They follow the Unix path logic with / denoting directory dividers instead of the Windows \.

If video is still a priority for you, I would retract a comment I made way earlier in this thread, about moving towards Linux if you want to leave the Mac. There are NLEs for Linux, but KDEnlive has a long way to go before being able to compete with Resolve, Avid, Premiere or FCP.

My recommendation however remains that older Macs are prefered over newer Windows PCs. And of course this is entirely opinion.

 

[deannnnn]

I use Windows at work and a Mac at home. The thing that I have learned about Windows in my years working here is that it can be great in a corporately controlled environment. Our PCs are maintained very well, and have all the annoying parts of Windows (re: updates) removed and are managed internally. It works great.

That said -- I don't want one at home. If you know and love Mac OS, leaving it for something else even when the something else is perfectly capable, will never be fulfilling to you. Apple does have ridiculous prices, but there are ways to get good deals, and you already know how long Macs last. I don't think you'll experience that from a PC.

 

[Isamilis]

I chose option 3 with little modification. For laptop, I kept away from new model (2016+) due to very low of user repairability plus keyboard issues (butterfly "technology") and unreasonable price. I bought 2 BNIB 13" macbook air (2017 version) for my parents and daughter and some used 2014/2015 MBP for myself and my wife. I replaced battery and upgraded the SSD of used 2014/2015 MBP (replace battery and SSD can be done by yourself easily, follow guide at ifixit.com).

I also bought NEW iMac 21" base version for my family's desktop station - which IMO still has reasonable price (around $1200, compared to Macbook Pro Touchbar version which around $2700). I also still using my 4-years iphone 6s which I just replaced with NEW battery.

In short, I still keep using apple product, but with selective products - used and new, to keep my spending reasonable. My kids and wife are still using iPhone and Mac. I might end up using Apple products in the future due to some of their very wrong decision (IMO) on new products (i.e. price, keyboard, user-replaceable, IOS). I hope when that time come, another company had already offered better solution (microsoft? google?).

I spent many years living/working happily within Apple's famed "walled garden," but I'm starting to realize that I simply can't afford new Apple stuff going forward. I've made some moves out of Apple-Land via a cheap Chromebook and Android phone, both of which serve my purposes well (but perhaps not as enjoyably as the Mac OS experience). My 2014 Macbook Air needs a new battery (and may have already sustained a bit of battery-related internal damage -- let's hope not), while my 2013 Mini keeps chugging along for now. But these products won't last forever, so I'm clearly coming to a crossroads. Do I:

1. Go ahead and make a full transition into an open-ended, non-Apple environment?
2. Keep patching up the Mini and the Air as long as I can afford to do so, and continue to rely primarily on an Apple environment?
3. Buy used Apple products at affordable prices as needed and maintain relations between the Mac hardware/software and a larger non-Apple landscape?

Any opinions or anecdotes welcome.

 

[toneofark]

Wrestled with this situation recently myself. I actually did end up buying a Huawei Matebook X Pro, only to return it for a Dell XPS 13, only to return THAT, and buy a new MBP.

 

[GanChan]

sounds to me like the OP doesn't really need to be in the Apple Eco system. If that's the case, making the move away won't be as painful.

If the Apple Eco sys is fundamental to your workflow and provides a far better experience and workflow, I'd scrap a few dinners out or the like to pay the Apple Tax and stay in the walled garden.

The only potential hurdle for me is that I might have to re-purchase some pricey screenwriting software. But it looks like there are alternatives that work as extensions/add-ons of Google Docs....

 

[tha_man]

macOS is IMO still the best OS - stable and reliable, easy to maintain (nicely sorted updates, time machine backup, no registry...), well thought out, looks & feels nice and has some useful apps (Photos, iMovie etc.). But to be honest, Windows works just as well in everyday use, in some cases even better (e.g. for games). You need to be more careful what apps you install, so you don't clog the registry too much or get some malware and find alternative apps to those that you get bundled with macOS. So while I prefer macOS, I would have no problem switching to Windows from purely OS point of view, if Apple does some stupid moves on hardware side of things or bumps the prices too much (actually they already kind of did both on laptop front, so I switched from macbook to iMac). Main issue for me would be Logic Pro, which I love and is Mac only.

Linux is also good, but there will be much steeper learning curve when it comes to maintaining it, especially if something goes wrong. That and poor app support are the main things responsible that it didn't make it on the desktop, but if you don't need any special apps, that are only available for Mac/Windows, it's a good OS.

So what you have to ask yourself is, do you need some special apps, that only work on macOS or not. If you do, go the used machine route, otherwise just get a PC.

 

[casperes1996]

The only potential hurdle for me is that I might have to re-purchase some pricey screenwriting software. But it looks like there are alternatives that work as extensions/add-ons of Google Docs....

I can't recommend avoiding Google Docs enough. I personally find it absolutely horrible.
If you want nice screenwriting software that can work through a browser, check out CeltX.

Linux is also good, but there will be much steeper learning curve when it comes to maintaining it, especially if something goes wrong. That and poor app support are the main things responsible that it didn't make it on the desktop, but if you don't need any special apps, that are only available for Mac/Windows, it's a good OS.

Your comment about app support is fairly true, but I disagree a lot with your comment about maintaining it.

A Mac sys-admin will have a much, much easier time - basically transparently - going to Linux, but will have a really rough time going to a Windows system.
If you're used to keeping a Mac system, you're used to Unix, meaning you're already at a good foundation for keeping a Linux system.

 

[tha_man]

You are absolutely correct that by design Linux is much more similar to macOS that Windows, so yeah, if you are skilled in those areas on macOS you will have no problem dealing with Linux. But the thing is, on macOS you generally don't ever need to do any of these low level stuff like accessing unix folders or changing config files. You can use it for any task without ever knowing about the terminal, and it'a similar story with Windows (unless you break something). With Linux, that is sadly not my experience. Except maybe if you do mostly office work, internet etc...