Travis County Gives Final Approval to Tax Incentives for Apple Expansion in Austin

[lilo777]

Your approach is a bit naive as you fail to understand the basic concept of a democracy.
We do not live in one. We live in a democratic republic. There is a major difference between the two.

The issue is the elected officials we send to represent us in Washington have a voice for hundreds of thousands of people. You and I never vote on individual items that appear before Congress. Our representative makes the decisions for us.
Our entire population of over 300 million people is represented by 435 Representatives in the House and 50 in the Senate. They are supposed to be our voice.
That's 485 people making decisions for over 300 million.
Those few individuals can be easily corrupted by the minority if the right kind of "influence" is applied.
Corruption happens at every level of government.
Just turn on the news or open a paper and you will see someone in government being prosecuted. The problem is the damage has already been done and reversing it is nearly impossible.

So to say the government doesn't reflect the will of the people has merit.
Whether you're in the majority or the minority is pretty much moot.

First, to say that we are do not live in a democracy is a blasphemy but I get your point. Obviously those 435 individuals have been corrupted for quite a while by corporate money (both parties) and that's exactly why we see corporations sitting on hundreds of billions of dollars in cash reserves while middle class... well, still think that they are in the middle but I think they are confused.

In any case. We love our Constitution, don't we? That's probably the only legal document in this country that is loved universally. Government being the main product of the Constitution, we surely can't hate it

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Your approach is a bit naive as you fail to understand the basic concept of a democracy.
We do not live in one. We live in a democratic republic.

Actually, we live in a Federal Republic. Different still. It's loosely democratic in nature, but it's not a democracy. The CIA's own official description is:

"Constitution-based federal republic; strong democratic tradition."

This country was forcibly taken and built upon by and for big business. Money is king. If you want a country built for people, there are plenty of others to choose from that were & still are.

 

[3282868]

To restate in part: We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, ... promote the general Welfare, ... do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

To clarify the PEOPLE promote the general welfare NOT THE GOVERNMENT!!

Just mere Rocketman

The people elect the officials, with checks and balances and the three branches of our government (the executive, the legislative and the judicial) to represent the people. It's now failing.

Unfortunately, our founding fathers could not foresee corporations, lobbyists and laws manipulating and controlling the very elected officials and the sects needed to regulate those elected officials.

Couple this with a two party system and political rhetoric, we have become a divided nation fighting each other over stereotypes instead of working with each other (we all want the same things). Read any thread, this one as well, and it's not difficult to understand that we've lost sight on keeping corporations and government in check. In fact, replace one with the other, not much of a difference these days.

If we stopped fighting each other, woke up and realized we're all pawns in a political game of chess, we might be able to make a difference. Until then, we're 1's and 0's fighting perfect strangers on a tech oriented blog over politics.

 

[Rocketman]

This country was forcibly taken and built upon by and for big business. Money is king. If you want a country built for people, there are plenty of others to choose from that were & still are.

But they are even more insolvent. We would be fine if the partisan Senate would ever pass ANYTHING so at least it could be subject to reconciliation.

Rocketman

 

[SteveSparks]

Would you also argue for giving incentives to McDonalds' of this World for opening their burger joints?

Yes, if the burger joint created 3600 new jobs in about 1/4 mile radius, with the perks people get when you work for Apple.

 

[paul4339]

For the tax break, it depends if Apple was serious about relocating to Phoenix or if it was just all BS. If it was all BS, the government made a bad deal, Apple should have got no tax break.

This is not the same as a bunch of burger joints, or an Exxon oil well... these can't be relocated another location... they can only threaten to not develop and find other opportunities.

.

 

[i.mac]

So, Apple continues screwing the taxpayers/counties/states etc. Good for Apple. Bad for everyone else. I guess 9.8% tax rate was too high for Apple.

Would you rather have these jobs go overseas?

I suppose that for some the cup is half empty.

 

[Rocketman]

The people elect the officials, with checks and balances and the three branches of our government (the executive, the legislative and the judicial) to represent the people. It's now failing.

Unfortunately, our founding fathers could not foresee corporations, lobbyists and laws manipulating and controlling the very elected officials and the sects needed to regulate those elected officials.

The biggest problem of all, is regulators who are an executive branch monologue of rules and enforcement, enabled by the legislative. Munging of roles.

Not subject to court rules either.

Lilo777 cannot be persuaded or repaired. His mission is troll.

Rocketman

 

[3282868]

The biggest problem of all, is regulators who are an executive branch monologue of rules and enforcement, enabled by the legislative. Munging of roles.

Not subject to court rules either.

Rocketman

It's so ironic and frustrating! What can we do?

 

[Thunderhawks]

I know you've been asked this before, but I haven't seen a response so I'll ask again. Why are you here? You have so much contempt for Apple AND for anyone that disagrees with you. Insulting people because they disagree with you, whether over politics or their choice of car, clothing, computer, etc. is juvenile. Discussion is one thing. Blatant, blanket insults to an entire group of people is another, and shows your biased, narrow-minded way of thinking.

Put on block and be done

Not a deep thinker IMO.

 

[lilo777]

Would you rather have these jobs go overseas?

I suppose that for some the cup is half empty.

No I'd rather we stop free trade fantasies that favor only the rich and make corporation think twice where they want to do business and where they need to pay taxes.

 

[MacBiz]

Glad to see that the deal was made. Austin is becoming a tech city onto itself.

 

[Rocketman]

It's so ironic and frustrating! What can we do?

Ask congress to make regulators subject to any one of the three rules of law. One example of which is "preponderance of the evidence".

Proof they are currently not subject to ANY of those rules (look at the previous filings for additional proof).:

http://www.v-serv.com/usr/ATFE-03-16-09.pdf

Rocketman

 

[kingnimrod]

Oh boy, I would love it if all the idiots who gripe about the "rich" and "corrupt corporations" would immediately stop using/benefitting from all that these people/institutions provide. Turn off the computer, undress, and go sit in a cave.

There will never be an Internet made of hemp.

 

[AustinIllini]

Glad to see that the deal was made. Austin is becoming a tech city onto itself.

http://www.siliconmaps.com/Silicon_Hills_2012.html

Oh crap, dell and apple aren't even on this map!

 

[AustinIllini]

Texas doesn't collect payroll taxes.
They rely solely on sales taxes for revenue.

God income taxes were easy this year. "Texas: No Taxes"

They hope people choose to live here. Property taxes are insanely high, and property value is skyrocketing in the fastest growing city in the US. This will only help. Anyone who thinks otherwise should come visit.

 

[lilo777]

God income taxes were easy this year. "Texas: No Taxes"

They hope people choose to live here. Property taxes are insanely high, and property value is skyrocketing in the fastest growing city in the US. This will only help. Anyone who thinks otherwise should come visit.

It's a cheap life. In more ways than one: no taxes, some of the worst schools in the nation (leading to illiteracy, dim prospects and religious zealotry), one of the highest percentage of people without medical insurance in the nation, high crime rate etc.

 

[rjohnstone]

God income taxes were easy this year. "Texas: No Taxes"

They hope people choose to live here. Property taxes are insanely high, and property value is skyrocketing in the fastest growing city in the US. This will only help. Anyone who thinks otherwise should come visit.

Part of why I stay in Phoenix.
AZ payroll tax is tolerable, sales tax varies by city and property taxes are low.
We still manage to attract big name companies, including the one I work for, and they pay well.
Intel now has two fabs here.

 

[Thunderbird]

Oh boy, I would love it if all the idiots who gripe about the "rich" and "corrupt corporations" would immediately stop using/benefitting from all that these people/institutions provide. Turn off the computer, undress, and go sit in a cave.

Believe me, I'd love to. But the rich corrupt mining corporations already own the caves.

 

[kingtj]

re: sweet deal for Apple

You *do* realize, don't you, that this happens nearly EVERY time government cuts a deal to entice a business to open up shop in their state?

It's one more good reason we need to gut the current tax code system and do something MUCH more basic.

Of course, there's always much more to these equations than adding up the salaries of the new hires from an expansion like this. A city or state is looking at everything from how much tax revenue they think they'll make off the company's utility bills every month, to how much more they'll get in gasoline tax from all the employees who are now driving to/from work every day at those jobs. The bottom line, though? A lot of this becomes statistical game-playing, because you simply can't prove what ANY of the new employees would have done if they weren't hired by Apple. Maybe some of them would have started their own small businesses which earned them higher wages, and by accepting a job at Apple's facility, you just encouraged them to under-perform?

Apple got a sweet deal out of that one.
$35 million in tax breaks for creating low level tech jobs.
It will take decades for the City/County/State to break even on the deal.

 

[a.jfred]

First, to say that we are do not live in a democracy is a blasphemy but I get your point. Obviously those 435 individuals have been corrupted for quite a while by corporate money (both parties) and that's exactly why we see corporations sitting on hundreds of billions of dollars in cash reserves while middle class... well, still think that they are in the middle but I think they are confused.

In any case. We love our Constitution, don't we? That's probably the only legal document in this country that is loved universally. Government being the main product of the Constitution, we surely can't hate it

No, lilo777 is quite correct. We do NOT live in a democracy - we live in a republic. See also: Wikipedia's definition of 'Republic' as pertains to the United States

 

[kerpow69]

I'm not questioning the pay for the employees ( in fact, I really didn't need to quote any salary ), just more so the need for tax incentives.

Because Apple is a business not a charity. This deal is solid for both parties if you play with the numbers a bit. If Apple creates 3600 jobs at lets say an average of $30,000 (which is probably low) that equals $108,000,000 that will be pumped into the local economy. I haven't researched property, sales, income, or other taxes in Austin but I'd be willing to bet the local government will net more in individual taxes than the $35 million they gave up.

 

[a.jfred]

The people elect the officials, with checks and balances and the three branches of our government (the executive, the legislative and the judicial) to represent the people. It's now failing.

Actually, the people (us regular folk) tell other people (the electoral college) who to vote for, and those other people ultimately decide who to give the votes to. MOST of the time, the EC gives all their votes to one person; MOST of the time, the EC votes for who us regular folk tell them to vote for. SOMETIMES, they vote the other way, and you have people who can win the popular vote, but lose the over-all election.

 

[donnaw]

Because Apple is a business not a charity. This deal is solid for both parties if you play with the numbers a bit. If Apple creates 3600 jobs at lets say an average of $30,000 (which is probably low) that equals $108,000,000 that will be pumped into the local economy. I haven't researched property, sales, income, or other taxes in Austin but I'd be willing to bet the local government will net more in individual taxes than the $35 million they gave up.

It's a hard equation. First, even when Apple does create the jobs I'm betting those will be filled by people already living here so the net growth in taxes collected will not be that much. Second, many of these people won't be living in Travis county. Many, if not most will reside in the outer communities so Travis county will have given up a chunk of property taxes that won't be recouped. Same goes for individual spending. Those same folks will probably do their shopping outside of Travis county too.

IMHO, while this may be a good idea, those of us living in Travis county got the short end of the stick. A couple of surrounding counties and the city of Austin should cough up some of the $$$ too.

I hope it does work out well. It never hurts to have a large company move good paying jobs to you community. But local governments do tend to give up a lot to entice them. That being said, having the jobs here and not overseas is by and large, a good thing.

 

[BaldiMac]

It's a hard equation. First, even when Apple does create the jobs I'm betting those will be filled by people already living here so the net growth in taxes collected will not be that much. Second, many of these people won't be living in Travis county. Many, if not most will reside in the outer communities so Travis county will have given up a chunk of property taxes that won't be recouped. Same goes for individual spending. Those same folks will probably do their shopping outside of Travis county too.

IMHO, while this may be a good idea, those of us living in Travis county got the short end of the stick. A couple of surrounding counties and the city of Austin should cough up some of the $$$ too.

I hope it does work out well. It never hurts to have a large company move good paying jobs to you community. But local governments do tend to give up a lot to entice them. That being said, having the jobs here and not overseas is by and large, a good thing.

Maybe Travis County officials had actual numbers in their equations instead of random guesses. And maybe those numbers suggested Travis County would not be getting the short end of the stick. Just something to consider.