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Don't worry TSMC, even with your generosity, Apple is still going to raise prices on the 15 Pro.

Pretty good chance this 'deal' is going to prematurely kill off TSMC N3B process. Apple is going to end up 'paying' for that later. This likely is a 'pay less now , but pay more later' situation. TSMC sucks up losses in 2023 and then Apple sucks up some losses in 2024-25.

So no ... it won't be cheaper. The wafer costs for whatever flavor of N3 variant you want to buy is $1,000's higher. Apple is likiely not going to make the dies very much smaller ( N3 doesn't make caches/SRAM shrink much and Apple's designs are eyeball deep in heaving cache utilization. )

If TSMC kills off N3B in 2 years and Apple still needs A17 chips they'll need to 're-spin' on N3E (or something elese that is long life process). That will cost money. So it will be a 'pay later' problem.
 
So no ... it won't be cheaper. The wafer costs for whatever flavor of N3 variant you want to buy is $1,000's higher. Apple is likiely not going to make the dies very much smaller ( N3 doesn't make caches/SRAM shrink much and Apple's designs are eyeball deep in heaving cache utilization. )

If TSMC kills off N3B in 2 years and Apple still needs A17 chips they'll need to 're-spin' on N3E (or something elese that is long life process). That will cost money. So it will be a 'pay later' problem.

In that case Apple could just cancel the A17 products from their lineup and release an iPhone SE with whatever N3E chip will be produced at the time.
 
TSMC cant afford to let Intel steal Apple’s foundry business

it really isn't about that . Most likely Apple 'asked' for this N3B variant that is a bit too aggressive. Intel Foundary could not have delivered something equivalent by Feb-June this year at all. Intel wasn't even an option.

'25-27 maybe. But for the next two years, nope. intel doesn't even have the basic EUV fab equipment to do the volume job more so then their fab process design.

Decent chance the problem is more so that Intel dropped out of using N3B. ( Along with every other major player, but Apple). Apple isn't big enough to carry a whole process node variant by themselves for the normal process lifecycle length. As much as folks like to spin 'Apple gets fab nodes blocked from other players' , TSMC can't really run a business like that. The other folks buy up early wafers also and the 'bad die' costs are spread out over several players. The problem this time is that everyone else 'ran away'. N3B 'bakes' very slow ( need to put in relativelly precise orders well over a quarter in advance to have the right amount of product) , and most vendors don't have the inventory control options and relatively steady/predictable demand that Apple has. It is also relatively expensive ( and folks don't have margins that Apple has , or the elasticity to command higher prices from their customers. especially with a demand bubble bust on the horizon back in 2020-22. )

Because TSMC couldn't find someone else to 'sharet he pain' Apple is making TSMC soak much of it up. In turn , TSMC is probably going to shift some 'pain' to Apple later (2024-2025). Apple is probably just shifting when the cost rolls in over time.

Pretty good chance Intel hiccupping CPU/GPU design process over last 2-3 years caused them to shift to N3E (which costs incrementally less (both in raw wafer costs and 'early' defect rates') and not quite as long 'bake' time (still longer than N5 family but much closer) . Same with AMD , Nvidia , etc.
 
In that case Apple could just cancel the A17 products from their lineup and release an iPhone SE with whatever N3E chip will be produced at the time.

If they follow Apple dogma they ' cannot'. The iPhone Pro gets the A17 this year. next year the iPhone 16 gets the 'hand me down' A17. Not only that.... that model is then sold for the next two years after that!! Then about a 1-2 years later the iPad gets "hand me down " A17.

Using 'older' A-series is how Apple lowers the price points. If they dropped the A17 before its planned lifecycle was to be completed, they then would have to change the product development for 2-4 different other products. that will cost money. And what do they do stick with the A16 for an extra 1-2 years and take less of a competitive performance lead for those products? After the first year of deployment the typical A-series is only about 'half done' with its unit volume lifecycle (and multiple years in usage).

Pushing the A18 ( presuming it uses N3E ) onto the SE either pushes its launch date out further or raises the price of the product. Neither one of those is good. Also more than decent chance the A18 will be a larger (with more 'stuff') and therefore more expensive die if it is also on N3E. It quite be a 'cheaper, sooner' option for over a year after released.


If there is sufficicient room in the A17 package, Apple could just drop in a A17 N3E re-spin with far more limited cost increases and in a timely manner ( the features are not changing. It is pretty closet to when Apple had a A-series on both TSMC and Samsung at the same time... only this is sequenced and not changing vendors. It is doable on a decent budget. ). The major issue is that there are likely lots of OTHER die buyers who are also going to be buying up N3E over a long time.



it would be much easier for Apple to 'dump' the M3 (and bigger) dies because the 'hand me down' spread out is much more contained. the iPad Air could be stretched on a M2 longer and get the M4 slightly earlier. The Pro/Max/etc bigger dies die off once the generation is done anyway.
 
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They should not be charging!

We, as consumers pay high/premium prices for our precious iPhones. No one deserves a defective chip!

Charging for and using defective chip are two different things. A company could send X chips with an acceptable failure rate of some % and not necessarily reimburse for the defectives; if you are doing QC at the receiving end anyway you may not want to pay for higher QC upfront and simply accept some defective ones get shipped..
 
Looks like Apple is punishing TSMC for not delivering this die shrink last year like they’d planned on the M2.
 
Apple's extremely large order means it makes even LESS sense for TSMC to soak up the defective dies. That would just mean even bigger losses for them; not more profits.
The 3 nano production process is still a work in progress. TSMC benefit by Apple footing part of their R&D bill, which speeds up the process by several years. TSMC gets to tweak the manufacturing process on Apple's dime. That said, I salute the guinea pigs pioneers buying the first batches of the iPhone 15 using the chips made with an developmental process.
 
Looks like Apple is punishing TSMC for not delivering this die shrink last year like they’d planned on the M2.
Everybody knew the earliest 3NM fabs would have lower yields. It's been in the news for months. This article is nothing more then creative writing to imply some negativity with a so called sweetheart deal between Apple and TMSC when its expected activity. In other words they are just trying to create their own news by this article. Anything the Information writes is suspect going by their previous fluff articles.
 
They should not be charging!

We, as consumers pay high/premium prices for our precious iPhones. No one deserves a defective chip!
iPhone 4 = You're holding it wrong

"Gripping any mobile phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance, with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone. If you ever experience this on your iPhone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases."


iPhone 15 = You're using it wrong
 
Making TSMC pay for bad dies very likely contributed to even slower ramp to 'high volume manufacturing' status for N3B. And decent chance contributing to a slide on M3's generation's arrival.

Slower ramp than what? I don't think there were any viable alternatives to Apple not using N3B. This seems like a lemons -> lemonade situation.
 
What I wonder - what are some of these rejected chips? I'd maybe take a 2E/2P M3 proc in a 11" or 12" laptop - a minimum-viable, super-portable, slightly-underpowered-for-multi-tasking device.
 
They paid for it, TSMC has no other customers using that node. Apple can always move to Samsung or others.
AMD is supposedly going to use the N3B node for their Zen 5 chips

 
AMD is supposedly going to use the N3B node for their Zen 5 chips

Doesnt say, about AMD using the N3B node, with N3E comming later this year, AMD may use N3E.
 
AMD is supposedly going to use the N3B node for their Zen 5 chips

Unless AMD is delivering a one
-off product, there is no way they are using a node that will cease to exist once the other N3 variants are tooled up.
 
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