TSMC Now Shipping A-Series Processors to Apple for Future iOS Devices

[pedromcm.pm]

Comes in, looks around, sees the usual Samsung must collapse and fail comments, made on devices using Samsung components by people who are utterly blind and naive to just how much of iOS devices success is down to Samsung, gets sunglasses (too nice a day to get my coat) and leaves..

You have absolutely no idea/knowledge of what you are talking about. Why help the FUD crowd? Apple owes nothing to Samsung (quite the opposite, actually). Samsung is one of many manufactures of many components.

If Samsung goes away (I never said that I want that, just the pathetic Samsung Mobile division), Apple would switch to someone else (for more or less $).

In fact, as of today, Samsung has almost 0 leveraging power in this particular Apple game. Most iPhones have how many samsung components? Maybe Joe's 5s has 3, maybe John's 5s has 0.

In fact, one of the the reasons for me wanting Samsung to be knocked down a bit as a conglomerate, and being completely knocked out as a "premium" (lol) smartphone player, is (besides opening the doors of innovation in the Android world, that are close since Ice cream Sandwich arrived) to watch the usual misinformed suspects, disguised as fans or interested in company A, B or C, having a nice reality check.

So maybe you should take those sunglasses off, and buy proper glasses to fix that myopia of ignorance that you displayed, here.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

The single part is the A7 chip, designed by Apple, fabbed by Samsung. If Samsung is just a fab who manufactures the design of Apple's chip team, why would you care who makes it?

I don't. You're the one making it sound like that Samsung's contribution to the parts within the 5s was "only one part" as if TSMCs many parts were more important. However, I would personally consider the A7 THE part. I appreciate your spin but marginalizing spin doesn't make the core part of the 5s less important just because TSMC makes several other parts. There is no 5s without the A7. It basically IS the 5s.

What makes you think Samsung is the only one who makes processors?

Never said that. That's you trying to spin the conversation again. TSMC also makes processors, as do several other companies. But Apple CHOSE Samsung for the 5s and Apple is choosing Samsung again for the 6. Why does a company that should conceptually HATE Samsung (like many here) keep choosing to use them when there are apparently- as you imply- others who can also make those chips for them? The thermonuclear option was rising a LONG time ago- when Jobs was still alive and far from dying. Are you implying that fading out of using Samsung would take this many years and still have Samsung making most of the A parts in 2014?

I'm not a part of the hate Samsung club because they copied Apple or Apple and Samsung have been duking it out in court. I'm just a consumer who likes to buy good stuff from Apple. If Apple is choosing to use Samsung for parts, I have faith they are doing that because that's the best option for Apple… so that we Apple consumers end up with good Apple products. For some of us to be so anti-Samsung when Apple is basically endorsing Samsung makes about as much sense as being anti-Samsung when Apple is fighting with Samsung.

When Apple stops using parts by Samsung, that's fine by me too. But until then, I don't pretend that anyone else can replace Samsung or spin that since TSMC contributed more parts than Samsung in the 5s that Samsung's contribution was not that important. When Apple stops using Samsung, great! While Apple continues to use Samsung, great too.

Why is Samsung using TSMC chips?

Irrelevant for the statements I've made within this thread.

How come literally no one is using Samsung for their processors if Samsung was so great?

Also irrelevant. There could be any number of reasons. Judging quality based on how many customers are using stuff made by a company doesn't necessarily mean anything. Else, how come no one other than Apple is using iOS or OS X for their OS? Does that mean that stuff made by Apple is not good quality? Of course not, Apple just chooses NOT to license that to other companies. Maybe Samsung doesn't want to do deals with others? Maybe Apple demanded some kind of exclusive for this particular part of things? Who knows HERE? That's business between Apple & Samsung.

What I do know is that Apple continues to heavily utilize the most crucial part of iDevices from Samsung. Unless Samsung has some special hold on Apple, that either makes no sense or Apple is going with the best source as judged by Apple. Nobody here can ever call Apple dumb so they must be making a smart decision to utilize Samsung parts for iPhone 6 and per…

Apple also is rumored to be working with Samsung on next year's A9 processor which could use a 14-nanometer design.]

…apparently also next year's 6s or 7 too.

 

[fertilized-egg]

I don't. You're the one making it sound like that Samsung's contribution to the parts within the 5s was "only one part" as if TSMCs many parts were more important.

Actually TSMC's part is extremely important too and cost more than the A7 chip.

There is no 5s without the A7. It basically IS the 5s.

Holy mackerel. Seriously? The TSMC-made Qualcomm 801 chip basically IS the Galaxy S5? I know you're trying to drum up the importance of the SoC, and it is important, but that's pretty ridiculous.

Also irrelevant. There could be any number of reasons. Judging quality based on how many customers are using stuff made by a company doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Really? Even when your own company's division uses someone else's chip? You keep implying Samsung is the only company capable of making good chips. Why aren't Samsung using Samsung chips then?

Maybe Samsung doesn't want to do deals with others? Maybe Apple demanded some kind of exclusive for this particular part of things? Who knows HERE? That's business between Apple & Samsung.

Actually Samsung is already known to trying to make a deal with others. Apple definitely gets the priority because they are the largest client with high margin orders, but no, it's not because Samsung doesn't want to do business or Apple has an exclusive. It's because they aren't as special as you make them to be as a fab and they are a late comer without all the required bits, which allegedly is related to Apple using Globalfoundries next.

Why does a company that should conceptually HATE Samsung (like many here) keep choosing to use them when there are apparently- as you imply- others who can also make those chips for them? ...
What I do know is that Apple continues to heavily utilize the most crucial part of iDevices from Samsung. Unless Samsung has some special hold on Apple"

Because Apple is familiar with their process and Samsung is more willing to negotiate than TSMC because they have no other client? I'm not sure why you keep ignoring the point I've already made a few times in this thread.

When Apple stops using parts by Samsung, that's fine by me too. But until then, I don't pretend that anyone else can replace Samsung or spin that since TSMC contributed more parts than Samsung in the 5s that Samsung's contribution was not that important.

In other words, it doesn't matter how much explanation is written for you. You've made up your mind and will keep saying Samsung is the best because a processor is just like the retention issue with LG LCDs. Flawless reasoning I'd say.

Apple also is rumored to be working with Samsung on next year's A9 processor which could use a 14-nanometer design.

…apparently also next year's 6s or 7 too.

Did you read the article and the part where it says "Globalfoundries"? I've said that a few times already in the thread. I'm becoming more suspicious that you don't really read what I wrote.

 

[Yojimbo007]

Wanting Apple to succeed is great. Wanting Samsung to fail is childish.

How about wanting samdung NOT TO:
Steal
Copy
Lie
Bribe
Mislead
Rig benchmarks
Bully
Act as the lowest life entity .
Destroy south Korean image !
Etc

 

[chrmjenkins]

I doubt that supplier switching is to snub Samsung in and of itself. They want the best process available at their volume, and that's TSMC right now.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Actually TSMC's part is extremely important too and cost more than the A7 chip. If reports are to be believed, TSMC's parts cost more than twice the A7 chip.

So what parts cost is THE most important factor in judging quality? I won't even bother to try.

Really? Even when your own company's division uses someone else's chip? You keep implying Samsung is the only company capable of making good chips.

I didn't say that nor (meant to) imply it. I just wrote in the post that you're quoting here that other companies make chips too and even specifically referenced TSMC. Did you miss that?

What I keep saying is that Apple CHOOSES to keep using Samsung chips. YOU seem to be ignoring that. I'm fine with whatever you feel against Samsung. I'm fine with you reading things into anything I've said so that you see me as dumb or whatever. But you keep ignoring that point:

APPLE CHOOSES TO USE SAMSUNG PARTS​

Is Apple dumb for doing that? Why are they doing that?

Let me guess: there's no way you can fault Apple for using Samsung to make A chips for iDevices though you seem to have no problem faulting me for taking no issue with Apple doing that very thing.

 

[apolloa]

Comes in, looks around, sees the usual misconception about Samsung responsible for the majority of iOS components, gets sunglasses and leaves with a drink in hand.

Here's a simple fun fact. There are more TSMC-made components in this iPhone 5s teardown from iFixit than Samsung components. There's literally a single Samsung component in that particular iPhone 5s.

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+5s+Teardown/17383

But it's been my experience at Macrumors that most of those who preach objectiveness and facts while criticizing others for bias and naivety are usually the ones who accept "the facts" only when those facts make Apple look bad.

I'm pretty sure the SOC is a vital component, and Samsung have had great you olds at a great price for years, Apple have relied on them heavily with NO negative consequences and it is the Mac Rumours readers only that seem to believe it is negative due to the culture generated on the site.
I also never stated how many components Samsung made, but their is a lot more to the success they have contributed then one component.

I couldn't care less, I'm not claiming Apple look bad for enjoying success, but I will be enjoying my new iPad mini when I get it in the few days, Samsung components and all.

 

[fertilized-egg]

I doubt that supplier switching is to snub Samsung in and of itself. They want the best process available at their volume, and that's TSMC right now.

Thank you for mentioning that! I earlier said TSMC at 20nm would be a great choice over Samsung at 28nm but apparently nobody read it.

The rumor had it Samsung went all-in for the 14nm when Apple was moving to 20nm with TSMC, and then Apple put a fair amount money to get GloFo's Malta fab synced with Samsung's 14nm process and dedicated for the production of the A9 chip, Samsung in exchange gets to license GloFo's IP and all that. It'll be interesting to see if all of that turn out to be true. They all do make a lot of sense.

Now that think about it though, I think there is a bit of snub here still.

Edit: and there was also that rumor Apple may use different fabs for iPhones and iPads. I wonder how far along TSMC's 20nm process is at this point given the high demand.

So what parts cost is THE most important factor in judging quality? I won't even bother to try.

Are you saying the modem and LCD panels are less important in a phone than the processor? Those are very arguable.

What I keep saying is that Apple CHOOSES to keep using Samsung chips.

I've stated it a few times why I think Apple chooses to keep using Samsung chips. Did you read?

Let me guess: there's no way you can fault Apple for using Samsung to make A chips for iDevices though you seem to have no problem faulting me for taking no issue with Apple doing that very thing.

Like I said, if TSMC's smaller node process is moving along faster, then yes, Apple should move to TSMC and you can fault them.

My problem with your post is that the reasoning is completely false from the beginning, but you refuse to read anything that'll help you understand the situation. Starting with the fact that Apple didn't move away from Samsung to LG, and that the display retention issue nor the SSD speed discrepancy situation is anything similar to the chip fab situation.

I've spend a lot of words explaining why they aren't comparable and the basis for your reasoning is wrong, and you keep ignoring everything, instead trying to credit my thinking to Samsung hatred.

 

[JAT]

That's is pretty creepy what you have said….. 1) You do understand people like a choice in the products they use? 2) Regardless of how much you hate Samsung, they produce amazing TVs etc.

Really? Maybe I'm just unlucky, but my only TV from them suffers from their well-known failure to include capacitors that can handle the TV. It will be replaced by another company's.

And the video is not that great. Many people claim it is, but most of them wouldn't know accurate video if it hit them on the nose.

 

[farewelwilliams]

call me a child then

child.

 

[captain kaos]

With talk of the delay in 14-nanometer intel chips, i wonder if apple will go with their own A-chips with TSMC and sack off intel for their imac/macbooks chips?

 

[iOSaddict]

OK. So what. End result is this: I see lots of Apple people here- among a crowd that seeks out every opportunity to bash away at Samsung- posting about "hoping to get the Samsung one". I don't see lots of posts hoping to get the LG one or the Sharp one. That's the "movie" I'm talking about. Trying to spin the order of introduction as if that has some impact on end result doesn't change the end result.



Except, I don't notice people posting "I hope I get the LG one with less retention issue". And excluding or marginalizing a flaw that bothers users doesn't make it better than the Samsung one either (just a lessening flaw). End result is still the end result. I just don't see many posting about hoping they get something other than the Samsung one in such threads. Does anyone want a "less flawed" part from someone else?

Who came first or that one of the others is "getting better" doesn't seem too relevant to how even this very biased (against Samsung) crowd views Samsung parts when it's their own Apple device being swapped out.



OK great. So, since we're all so certain that Apple should eliminate Samsung from making A processors, why doesn't the "biggest independent fab in the whole world" have the whole order? I recall in what seemed to be the height of the thermonuclear war that THAT was the rumor… that Apple was going to shift the bulk or even all A processor production to TSMC. What happened? Since, it's faded into being a split order and now it's apparently becoming that Samsung will make most and TSMC will make some. How is it that the company being "dwarved" is getting so much of the order?

I'll grant you that TSMC may indeed be a much bigger producer of these kinds of chips. So what's the problem? Don't they want more of Apple's money than a partial order? I would think given the collective hatred of Samsung here and perceived hatred of Samsung by Apple Inc, that the time for TSMC to strike would have already happened… that TSMC could have seen a great opportunity and simply asked for the whole order to put one over on their smaller competitor when Apple is (apparently) most motivated to do that very thing. So why does the dreaded Samsung get so much of this order?

Let me guess: transition or not putting all eggs in one basket, blah, blah, blah. OR- just as speculatively- maybe TSMC just has volume and/or quality issues that are not as much of a problem for the smaller competitor. I don't know… but you don't either. I'm simply wondering if post-launch will once again have lots of threads where returned 6s have owners "hoping I get the Samsung one".

Then don't buy the next iPhone. You may get a non-samsung-made part. It would be tragic.

 

[apolloa]

You have absolutely no idea/knowledge of what you are talking about. Why help the FUD crowd? Apple owes nothing to Samsung (quite the opposite, actually). Samsung is one of many manufactures of many components.

If Samsung goes away (I never said that I want that, just the pathetic Samsung Mobile division), Apple would switch to someone else (for more or less $).

In fact, as of today, Samsung has almost 0 leveraging power in this particular Apple game. Most iPhones have how many samsung components? Maybe Joe's 5s has 3, maybe John's 5s has 0.

In fact, one of the the reasons for me wanting Samsung to be knocked down a bit as a conglomerate, and being completely knocked out as a "premium" (lol) smartphone player, is (besides opening the doors of innovation in the Android world, that are close since Ice cream Sandwich arrived) to watch the usual misinformed suspects, disguised as fans or interested in company A, B or C, having a nice reality check.

So maybe you should take those sunglasses off, and buy proper glasses to fix that myopia of ignorance that you displayed, here.

It's called YIELD, now Samsung is VERY good at producing very good high yields at a good price Apple is willing to pay, until recently, if it produce poor yields, that would hold up the ENTIRE supply of iOS devices using that chip.
Apple has been rumoured to have ordered 65 MILLION iPhone 6, what if their was a issue with the SOC yields? The entire reason Apple has gone to TSMC is because Samsung are having trouble producing the high yields Apple needs, the story was on THIS SITE:

https://www.macrumors.com/2014/02/17/samsung-drops-a8-low-yield/

It has bugger all to do with pride, company fighting, innovation, knocking Samsung down a peg and everything to do with supply. If Apple cannot get it's iPhones and iPads to stores to meet the millions of sales expected, it can damage them and cost them sales, low yields could affect the entire global supply. How do you think it would look for Apple if across international news on the television (which there would be), stating it's devices were in really low supply due to manufacturing issues?

So stop with your insults of ignorance, take of YOUR sun glasses. Stop thinking every time someone makes a comment about Samsung it's because they are ignorant or clueless or some sort of Samsung employee. Start thinking global mass sale mass produced items made by a giant global corporation.

So yes, due to the popularity of iOS devices, then Samsung HAS contributed to their success just like TSMC has.

 

[name99]

Why can't an American company make a viable mobile processor? We have MIT, Caltech, let's make this work people...

What counts as an American company? This sort of thinking is a relic of the 19th century. Most of TSMC's shareholders are American. Plenty of their engineers were educated in America. Plenty of their designs come from America.
Samsung has a fab in Austin. Does that make them American?
Westfield is, in a legal sense Australian --- does that make their malls non-American?
Burger King is, in a legal sense, British --- do you feel your eating non-American when you go there?

Your thinking is only slightly more obsolete than worrying about whether a company is a Texas company or a New York company or Washington company. No-one thinks that way --- a large US company does what it does anywhere in the US, using people that were educated anywhere in the US, in the way that makes the most sense.

 

[name99]

IBM's POWER8 is designed all over the place; Germany, India, Israel and the US.

Famously the Core architecture was designed by Intel in Haifa, Israel. Ivy Bridge and Sandy Bridge are more current designs designed in Israel.

STMicroelectronics is a European company that designs a lot of microelectronics. As is Infineon and Ericsson.

Japanese and Taiwanese companies like Sony, Toshiba, Canon, Fujitsu, MediaTek all have ARM licenses, and Fujitsu is even designing their own mainframe architecture.

China is becoming larger and larger in designing high end microelectronics. Allwinner, RockChip, C*Core, Longsson, Huawei, all have broad licenses for ARM, MIPS, Sparc and even Power.

Mostly true, but you run off the rails a bit with China. At least for now the Chinese licenses are for existing cores (except Longson, which is a Chinese design, but using the MIPS ISA, and which so far is nothing special despite at least three iterations).

Presumably at some point one of these companies will move on to actually designing a CPU, but (apart from Longson) we aren't there yet, and even when we get there, the CPU is honestly only interesting if it's superior to the various existing designs along at least some dimension. There's so far no reason to expect that. The various SoCs, for example, are fine examples of cost reduction, but they're not examples of any sort of original thinking in terms of improving performance or reducing power.

I'm honestly amazed the Chinese government hasn't spent more money and made this a priority.

 

[Tech198]

This would actually be good for Apple.

With the ways of Samsung vs Apple. who knows what maybe happen between them. Samsung could just turn their backs on Apple anytime if they've had enough..

Well played.