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tvOS 14 Not Supporting 4K YouTube Videos Yet

  1. YouTube uses a non-standard video codec created and owned by Google (yes, it's open, but still narrower support).
  2. Users get upset at Apple because their devices don't support it.
VP9 is a direct competitor to H.265, which AppleTV *does* support!

Yes, Apple should support VP9, but YouTube should also deliver in H.265. The same argument can be made on both counts. So be upset with YouTube for not supporting an established standard!
 
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EPO75 said:
A10X has the PowerVR gpu which support hardware VP9 decoding, it's Google who's being annoying here.
Click to expand...
It does NOT support hardware VP9 decoding - they built a GPU compute software decoder using OpenCL as a test project in 2014 that barely worked at 1080p30fps.

Apple has built something better here but it is asking too much from an A10X, I think.
 
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mtrm said:
I honestly can’t understand why it hasn’t been there from day one when the 4K Apple TV launched. I have a 2017 Samsung QLED and the built in YouTube app plays 4K content just fine. I’d expect that a device dedicated to media playback would do that as well to be honest.
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Because YouTube uses VP9 encoding, while Apple uses HEVC. Both now support AV1, and therefore iOS and TVOS are now able to play YouTube 4K.

It's a bit unreasonable to expect any device to offer unlimited compatibility with every standard on Earth "from day one."
 
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zorinlynx said:
This is a mess. Apple and Google have been having this spat for YEARS now. I wish they'd work together on this. I get that they're competitors, but it's kind of like politics; most people aren't going to switch sides, we all love our devices and want to keep them so it's best to just work with each other for the common good.
Click to expand...

YouTube is *choosing* not to support H.265. Is it because of a mandatory licensing fee that will raise their costs?
 
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What I find especially galling is that for years Google refused to support 4K on Apple hardware unless Apple relented and supported one of Google’s proprietary codecs (even though Google can transcode to any format). Now that Apple has finally caved-in, Google is playing games.
 
Apples always behind the times. You must have specific models to support airplay meanwhile YouTube and Spotify and have been casting to pretty much any smart tv or gaming console for the last five years or more.
 
What about audio?
Is YouTube now in the DD+ era or still sound bar stereo mentality?
I’d pick DD+ over 4K actually.

Yea, I’ve got a ... big screen with 7.2.6 Atmos
7cda96f0bc465df7c84e13b1f3cd0244.jpg
 
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ersan191 said:
I'm going to theorize that they won't be able to get this to work.

It's enabled on iPhone XS or newer AKA A12 or newer - they didn't enable it on iPhone X which has an A11, I don't think they will be able to get it to work with the A10X in the Apple TV. It's effectively software decoding VP9, and I don't think the CPU/GPU can keep up with every video.

I'll be happy when I'm proven wrong.
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to test your theory - I downloaded a 4K video/V9 video, added it to both Plex, VLC and my Synology DS418play server and they all play perfectly - so I am guessing that's the not the issue - Google has not upgraded their ATV 4k client in ages - we need to wait and see what they do
 
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az431 said:
Because YouTube uses VP9 encoding, while Apple uses HEVC. Both now support AV1, and therefore iOS and TVOS are now able to play YouTube 4K.

It's a bit unreasonable to expect any device to offer unlimited compatibility with every standard on Earth "from day one."
Click to expand...
This is completely incorrect, AV1 is only available on a handful of YouTube videos and current silicon doesn't support AV1 anyway. Apple built a GPU accelerated software decoder for VP9 in iOS 14 and Big Sur.
 
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Interesting, well I didn't see Google being dragged to court for not supporting industry-standard format!
VP9 should be an option but not the only choice.

Also, does Apple TV 4K hardware even support VP9??
 
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Probably because Apple gave Google 24 hours to build with the non-beta of Xcode 12 and submit before tvOS 14 was released, because Apple hates its own independent developers.
 
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agsystems said:
to test your theory - I downloaded a 4K video/V9 video, added it to both Plex, VLC and my Synology DS418play server and they all play perfectly - so I am guessing that's the not the issue - Google has not upgraded their ATV 4k client in ages - we need to wait and see what they do
Click to expand...
I think 60fps is the trip up. None of the implementations on Apple TV can handle that thus far. I would rather them just drop it but I don't know what is going on behind the scenes.
 
so, just some sperimenting. Using YouTube in safari, the YouTube quality drop down list is limited to 1080. loading the same YouTube video on chrome, the dropdown list shows 2160. Opening the source for the web page, shows a lot of code to trap the execution if it detects Safari. Pretty clear that this is on Google's side trapping the video before it can even be loaded.

So seeing I can't get at the Appletv YouTube source, it is probably the same stuff going on
 
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coolfactor said:
Yes, Apple should support VP9, but YouTube should also deliver in H.265. The same argument can be made on both counts. So be upset with YouTube for not supporting an established standard!
Click to expand...

But YouTube is what people want to use. If you have what people want, then they should be accommodating to your standard.
 
ersan191 said:
I think 60fps is the trip up. None of the implementations on Apple TV can handle that thus far. I would rather them just drop it but I don't know what is going on behind the scenes.
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Maybe vp9 sucks, 4k plays fine on appletv 4k. However if you are streaming, your network may not be up to it.
 
Maconplasma said:
I'm starting to wonder if it's Google that's blocking Apple from allowing 4K streaming in favor of using Google's products to view it. Very odd this keeps going on.
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I would not be surprised. I am thinking if Google some day plans to stop providing 4K with VP9 and only in AV1 in other to push AV1 adoption.


ersan191 said:
I'm going to theorize that they won't be able to get this to work.

It's enabled on iPhone XS or newer AKA A12 or newer - they didn't enable it on iPhone X which has an A11, I don't think they will be able to get it to work with the A10X in the Apple TV. It's effectively software decoding VP9, and I don't think the CPU/GPU can keep up with every video.

I'll be happy when I'm proven wrong.
Click to expand...

A10X is even able to decode AV1 ( Full Throttle ) under the TDP allowance of Apple TV. ( Not that it is good idea ). So decoding VP9 shouldn't be much of a problem, especially VP9 is fairly similar to HEVC and some hybrid form of hardware acceleration could be used. ( Assuming the Media Engine IP doesn't have VP9 decoding block included. At least I dont know if they were from IMG, if it is then the hardware should be capable of it )
 
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ksec said:
A10X is even able to decode AV1 ( Full Throttle ) under the TDP allowance of Apple TV. ( Not that it is good idea ). So decoding VP9 shouldn't be much of a problem, especially VP9 is fairly similar to HEVC and some hybrid form of hardware acceleration could be used. ( Assuming the Media Engine IP doesn't have VP9 decoding block included. At least I dont know if they were from IMG, if it is then the hardware should be capable of it )
Click to expand...
It isn't at 60FPS, which I think is the issue.
 
coolfactor said:
  1. YouTube uses a non-standard video codec created and owned by Google (yes, it's open, but still narrower support).
  2. Users get upset at Apple because their devices don't support it.
VP9 is a direct competitor to H.265, which AppleTV *does* support!

Yes, Apple should support VP9, but YouTube should also deliver in H.265. The same argument can be made on both counts. So be upset with YouTube for not supporting an established standard!
Click to expand...

Yes. But it is too late now. VVC, EVC, AV2. The next gen battle is on and is happening behind the scene.
 
ersan191 said:
It isn't at 60FPS, which I think is the issue.
Click to expand...

Well if it requires 60fps then I am pretty sure that is not going to do well with A10X. Do All 4K YouTube video default to 60 frames? Or only selected?
 
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