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Europe didn't give out C Band, we shouldn't either.

Yes it did. C-band (3.4Ghz) 5G has been operating since 2019 in Europe. It’s the first and most widely deployed 5G band in Europe.

This is a slightly lower frequency than the 3.7 GHz deployments in the US, but it’s still part of the C-band.

5G shouldn't have been allowed to go forward from the beginning, IMO

Maybe the Amish have the right idea? Should we just prohibit all new technology from now on?
 
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Yes it did. C-band (3.4Ghz) 5G has been operating since 2019 in Europe. It’s the first and most widely deployed 5G band in Europe.

This is a slightly lower frequency than the 3.7 GHz deployments in the US, but it’s still part of the C-band.



Maybe the Amish have the right idea? Should we just prohibit all new technology from now on?
Don't give me that ridiculous argument. 5G is harmful and many physicists have been speaking out against it's use. It offers little and affects our health. It never should have ben deployed
 
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Don't give me that ridiculous argument. 5G is harmful and many physicists have been speaking out against it's use. It offers little and affects our health. It never should have ben deployed
I would agree (mostly) if you're talking millimeter-wave 3GPP NR 5G, which is still not really that widely deployed due to the very short range of these signals. Most 3GPP NR 5G implementations are essentially upgrades from 4G LTE, for example what T-Mobile US did with the former Sprint frequencies.
 
We have been told - I and others have stated those somethings in this thread.

  1. The US system operates on a different band than other countries and that band is closer to the systems aircraft use to determine their height above the ground.
  2. The US system is more powerful than other countries so it has a greater area of effect and potential interference.
  3. The US system orients their antenna to have a greater area of effect and potential interference than other countries.
Essentially, the US 5G system is different than the rest of the worlds and was designed in such a way that it is more susceptible to interfere with aircraft than the 5G systems used in the rest of the world.
Exactly this. Everyone including the media just seem to want to ignore this and hold up overseas operations as a reason that it should work in the USA as well. I heard that exact argument on CNBC this morning.

If we really want it to be as safe as overseas then our 5G implementation should adopt the exact same rules as they use overseas. Our USA airlines fly the same airplanes in both airspaces and they are ok with the overseas implementation. I would expect the same would apply here.

Also, from what I just read in aviation news, this issue goes back to before the FCC granted the licenses and many aviation groups made their concerns known but the sales were made without any modifications.
 
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1. It operates further away from the band used by radar altimeters, ie it should be less of an issue.
2. The telecoms companies in the US have agreed to a larger exclusion zone around flight landing paths.

This is a none issue.

Please note the Delay from AT&T and Verizon was voluntarily and in their own words “Temporary.”

The FCC needs to release a location ban for at lease a year at the 50 airports listed until someone removers their head from their ass.

The FCC and FAA had 4 years to be ready for this day. They had numerous suggestions from well implemented solutions from Europe.

It’s anything but a non-issue. It’s gross incompetence between the FCC, FAA, and the Telecom Industry. Politically Criminal.

A Culture of Safety no longer exists in the US.
 
Well, that is depressing. The final statement of his presentation is that deploying 5G is 'insanity', after giving a lot of information regarding biological impacts both to humans and other species (which is not straightforward for a non biological scientist to understand, I believe).

Perhaps you can give some context to this presentation - who is this individual, what was the conference that the presentation is given at, and so forth. It is not all immediately clear from watching the video or going to the page on youtube that does have some additional info.
 
Well, that is depressing. The final statement of his presentation is that deploying 5G is 'insanity', after giving a lot of information regarding biological impacts both to humans and other species (which is not straightforward for a non biological scientist to understand, I believe).

Perhaps you can give some context to this presentation - who is this individual, what was the conference that the presentation is given at, and so forth. It is not all immediately clear from watching the video or going to the page on youtube that does have some additional info.
Martin Pall is a well known and respected Physicist. As far as the clip goes I don't have any more background on it.
Smart Meters were a huge mistake, 5G is a huge mistake. Both also completely unnecesary
 
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Don't give me that ridiculous argument. 5G is harmful and many physicists have been speaking out against it's use. It offers little and affects our health. It never should have ben deployed

Mmm hmmm. Don’t worry, I always make sure my tin foil hat is securely in place before using my 5G internet.

Seriously, c-band sits between 4G/LTE and (5 GHz) WiFi on the frequency spectrum. It reuses the same spectrum that’s been used for satellite TV for decades. Yes, the transmitters might be closer to you (compared to a satellite), but if you think 5G is bad, what do you think WiFi is doing to your health?

mmWave might be another story, but that’s not what we’re talking about here. C-band 5G is really just an upgrade to conventional radio technology that’s been in use for decades.
 
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ok so just put LTE only near airports, it has 100Mbps speeds. Install Wifi in the airport supplied by fiber lines, whats the problem here?
 
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Mmm hmmm. Don’t worry, I always make sure my tin foil hat is securely in place before using my 5G internet.

Seriously, c-band sits between 4G/LTE and (5 GHz) WiFi on the frequency spectrum. It reuses the same spectrum that’s been used for satellite TV for decades. Yes, the transmitters might be closer to you (compared to a satellite), but if you think 5G is bad, what do you think WiFi is doing to your health?

mmWave might be another story, but that’s not what we’re talking about here. C-band 5G is really just an upgrade to conventional radio technology that’s been in use for decades.

are you saying Wifi is higher frequency (faster) than 5G? speed tests show other wise.
 
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are you saying Wifi is higher frequency (faster) than 5G? speed tests show other wise.
Frequency of a signal does not necessarily translate to data rates. 5G cellular works on a bunch of frequencies from as low as around 1ghz up to 40-50ghz. The c-band that is being discussed is in the 3-4ghz range which is just below the 5ghz used in modern wifi systems.
 
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Mmm hmmm. Don’t worry, I always make sure my tin foil hat is securely in place before using my 5G internet.

Seriously, c-band sits between 4G/LTE and (5 GHz) WiFi on the frequency spectrum. It reuses the same spectrum that’s been used for satellite TV for decades. Yes, the transmitters might be closer to you (compared to a satellite), but if you think 5G is bad, what do you think WiFi is doing to your health?

mmWave might be another story, but that’s not what we’re talking about here. C-band 5G is really just an upgrade to conventional radio technology that’s been in use for decades.
I don't use wi-fi, although I know it goes through the walls and is impossible to completely ignore.
5G is not the same, watch some of the clips I posted.
 
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Nonsense. I’ve been using 5G in the UK since January 2020 (on the Vodafone network) and it makes a *huge* difference to download speeds. 200-300 Mbps on 5G compared to 40 Mbps (if you’re lucky!) on 4G.

5G has totally replaced my wired home broadband (I have a portable 5G wifi router). Faster AND cheaper than the DSL available in my area. It’s fast enough to stream HD games flawlessly on Stadia and GeForce Now, which just isn’t practical on 4G.



In my experience, for any given signal strength, you will get significantly faster speeds on 5G compare to 4G.

It’s true that 5G hasn’t done much to improve coverage yet in the UK, as so far it’s mostly been deployed on the 3.4Ghz band which is all about speed and capacity. As UK carriers start to roll out more low-band (700 MHz etc) 5G, it will help to fill in the coverage gaps, improve speeds in rural areas, etc.
I have > stable 150mbps on 4G on Virgin with a "4G Modem" - it is my "backup" internet in case my "cable network" breaks down.

If I'm lucky and get a 5G signal at the same place - bandwidth is between 40 and 120 mbps. But speed moves up and down all the time.

You need a LOT more 5G antenna to cover the same area as 4G - which is why 5G usually only works well (aka better than 4G) in "dense" populated parts of cities - because that is where it makes financial sense for operators to build the network.

The moment you are at a fringe area (so usually low rise build up areas) or country side - you do not get 5G at all.
 
Read the article you quoted, it has a lot of good info about the issues. The issue is lessened, not resolved yet, mostly because those involved decided to work together to fix the problems as opposed to just playing chicken with aviation safety and public convenience.
It still doesn't change the fact that this "issue" could have been resolved months ago but instead the FAA claimed that planes would drop out of the sky because of 5G. FAA is only now changing their tune because they got called out by carriers (and even other areas around the world that have been using C-Band for awhile) and realized they aren't going to get a handout this time.
 
It still doesn't change the fact that this "issue" could have been resolved months ago but instead the FAA claimed that planes would drop out of the sky because of 5G. FAA is only now changing their tune because they got called out by carriers (and even other areas around the world that have been using C-Band for awhile) and realized they aren't going to get a handout this time.
The FAA asserted that airplane safety could be effected and prohibited operations at airports where this could be a risk. The FAA has the evidence to show the risk was plausible. The FAA works on a safety first principle, prove something is safe before permitting it instead of prove something unsafe before prohibiting it. The airlines cannot legally operate where the FAA prohibits them from operating. This is all on the FAA, not the airlines. Foreign airlines, not controlled by the FAA, also prohibited operations at those US airports.

This is all about how C-band is implemented in the US around airports and it is different from how it was implemented everywhere else, self-serving comments by the US telecoms to the contrary. In every other country there is a larger guard band between their C-band frequencies and the ones used by altimeters. Antennas point away from where airplanes will use the radar altimeters, and the power levels used are lower. All things that combined have been proven to remove the risk to the airlines. US implementations do not do any of that sort of mitigation. FCC regulations didn't require it so it wasn't done and the telecoms don't seem willing to do so without regulations forcing it. FAA and FCC combined screwed up, two government agencies playing power games led to this and the telecoms following FCC rules and airlines following FAA rules get caught in the middle.

To operate with the US C-band implementation all aircraft, foreign and domestic, using radar altimeters will need to be certified that their particular radar altimeter installation is not effected before they will be permitted to operationally use them in airports close to C-band towers. The FAA is in the process of doing just that, and eventually radar altimeters that can't be certified safe will be replaced and yes it will be at the airplane owner's expense.

Basically this could have been resolved a long time ago if the FCC had issued European implementation rules about airport adjacent C-Band use. The FCC refused to do so as it would reduce the value of the money paid at auction the telecoms used to buy the frequencies. The FAA solution to require equipment changes takes a lot longer to implement but the FAA blinked first in this game of chicken between the agencies so that is where we are now.
 
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The FAA (not only) voiced those technical concerns early on. Just nobody wanted to listen.
Everyone who was involved in the technical side of things know about the problem and knew it was real. The telecoms and FCC knew this would effect aviation but wanted the aviation side to implement the equipment modification fix that everyone knew was possible, just costly and time consuming, but what the telecom side considered was the best long-term solution for their interests. This is happening, but they couldn't meet the deadline.
 
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Frequency of a signal does not necessarily translate to data rates. 5G cellular works on a bunch of frequencies from as low as around 1ghz up to 40-50ghz. The c-band that is being discussed is in the 3-4ghz range which is just below the 5ghz used in modern wifi systems.

I am confused. My understanding the shorter wavelength the faster data can be transmitted. If 5G(3-4ghz) is below Wifi 5Ghz , then for that spectrum at least, it will be slower than home wifi which is capped at around 500-600Mbps . I never saw Wifi reaching 900Mbps.
 
Nonsense. I’ve been using 5G in the UK since January 2020 (on the Vodafone network) and it makes a *huge* difference to download speeds. 200-300 Mbps on 5G compared to 40 Mbps (if you’re lucky!) on 4G.

5G has totally replaced my wired home broadband (I have a portable 5G wifi router). Faster AND cheaper than the DSL available in my area. It’s fast enough to stream HD games flawlessly on Stadia and GeForce Now, which just isn’t practical on 4G.

A lot of people assume 5G will make their facebook and instagram faster thus they say they notice no difference. I do not blame them because they have been brain washed by marketing terms. 5G will only show up for the more niche usage of the vast majority of people who will indeed be download huge files and stream high bit rate media like gaming in your case, but its counter productive since phone plans are usually capped you might get 30-50GB for a full month which is just not enough if you want to utilise the 5G capability.

its like a Toyota prius and a Ferrari cruising at 100km/h speed limited road. Both are same, people won't notice a difference. It is only when you lift the speed limit that the ferrari capabilities will shine next to the prius.
 
I am confused. My understanding the shorter wavelength the faster data can be transmitted. If 5G(3-4ghz) is below Wifi 5Ghz , then for that spectrum at least, it will be slower than home wifi which is capped at around 500-600Mbps . I never saw Wifi reaching 900Mbps.

It's kind of complicated... The frequency doesn't set the max data rate. The bandwidth of the channel is part of the equation and there tends to be wider bandwidth channels at higher frequencies, but that's obviously not all of it either. The widest WiFi channels are 160MHz, the widest C-Band channels look to be 100MHz-- so that won't explain why 5G is faster for you.

The mmWave stuff has 400MHz channels at frequencies over 20GHz, so that'll be part of the answer there. This isn't mmWave though.

Some of it may be how that channel is used. 5G may just make more efficient use of the spectrum.

Most of what i'm seeing is that the downloads on C-band are faster than the uploads. I haven't seen 900Mbps upload numbers for this band yet. On the download side, 5G has a pretty massive power advantage-- your WiFi is limited to 4W. Those 5G towers are much, much more powerful. Obviously the high data rate enabled by that transmission power is being shared among all the handsets out there, and it's further away than your hotspot, probably, but that could certainly be part of the download speed benefits.
 
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